Hi all,
I've been testing stuff, and I've found something that's very disturbing. Timing retard is taking away most of the benefits of lots of my mods!

Going to higher octane gas netted my over 5 HP! With no other changes...

Going back to crappy 91 octane took a 5 HP adder, and slammed it down to just 2 hp! There goes 60% of the benefit to the mod!

I'm pissed that the crappy CA gas doesn't let me have the benefit of even the factory tune, and keeps me from getting the full benefit of the parts I've added.

The lesson I've learned is that there's a limit to what you can get out of the basic motor without going into the head and maybe pistons.

Anyone know of any other ways to keep pre-ignition in check? Any one else find that the **** they sell for gas in CA is really screwing with power generation?

GRRRRR!

Matt

 

Do you have a Unichip or other engine management mod?

 

MTH.......

Matt

 

Have you discussed this timing issue with them? Maybe you need your program remapped?

 

Why do you think going into the head and pistons will get you past this limit?

 

Check out Endyn's pages and tech articles.

but I think a saner approach is to make sure that my cooling system is working at peak efficiency, going another step cooler in plugs (but these conduct the heat to the cooling system better, hence getting it working at peak efficiencies) and anything else that will cool the intake charge.

Matt

 

In the v-8 world they are using different coatings on the combustion chambers and piston tops to reduce the tendency for pre-ignition when adding compression to NA engines. This same concept should help in our SC engines. This would be a lot of work to do, requiring an engine teardown.

 

There is no way around crappy gas sadly
Methanol injection is probably ur best bet along with water injection if CA gas is so bad. This alone will not create power but the extra timing regain will add the power.

 

Cool. Will do.

I agree that cooling will be a big factor in this. I'm going to be taking some extreme measures prior to the heat hitting PHX this year. Already have an oil cooler on the way and some other goodies soon to get the charge air cooler. I hope to have these things ready on the car by AMVIV. I hope. I hope. I hope.

 

have you tried octane booster? it helps a little in my car.

 

and I may take to putting a few gal a tank into it. But it's $4.699/gal!

Yikes!

Matt

 

Octane booster is worth crap
get some Toluene, Xylene that will help more than anything however be warned it WILL destroy ruber seals over time in your fuel system.
If u want to throw something in there twy mixing some 94 octane + 104 UNLEADED gas
if u didnt run an 02 sensor or Cat i would say run some Leaded fuel. I doubt a lightly modded mini will need anymore than that fuel wise

 

I have to agree here.
Water injection works very well.
Worked during WWII to keep planes in the air on crap gas and it worked wonders back in the '70s when people were trying to run 11:1 compression motors on the sh**t gas available after the "oil crisis"
Sunoco 260 went away and life for muscle cars sucked.

 

Water injection introduces another level of complexity to the problem (Crappy CA gas). Personally, I would look into a Front Mounted Intercooler. Check the performance difference between winter and summer; the winter analogy is roughly comparable to what you would be able to experience with a FMIC. Or, you could run 100 octane racing unleaded all the time. Fortunately for Dr., a service station is nearby that sells the 100 octane brew at $4.65/gallon. Another way to look at it is that the difference between say Chevron 91 Supreme ($2.70/gallon near to the Dr.) and the 100 octane unleaded racing brew is $1.95 ($4.65 - $2.70). If the difference holds, and Dr. drives his car for say another 80,000 miles, and gets uh, an average of 28 miles per gallon, the investment of $5,571 will get him a 100 octane experience for the 80,000 miles. What would a FMIC cost? What would an FMIC and water injection cost? Probably pretty close to $5,600 is my thinking.

 

It is complex i agree however i have friends who are running 94 octane gas + Methanol mix daily on there motors running 25PSI of boost on Audi S4s
You cant get simpler than a Aquamist system

 

In general, modding the car will result in the requirement for higher octane gas. I learned this lesson real well when I chose to mod my 2003 Corvette. After a CAI, larger throttle body, heads and cam, Z06 headers, Corsa cat-back and higher stall speed torque converter, I have a beast. The only problem is that it requires 95+ octane. If I put in a load of 91 octane, I get the middle-fingered salute (the engine pings briefly, and the timing is immediately retarded) and the driveability becomes like walking through wet concrete (punch the go pedal and nothing happens). Go back to 95+ octane and life is sweet again.

So, the basic question is: How badly do you feel the need to mod?

 

And how much is the methanol costing them? I doubt it is free. Even if the methanol for your friends is free, it isn't free for mere mortals. And that is the real issue - cost versus benefit.

 

Distilled water is damn cheap. Water injection is cheap.
My brother ran an 11:1 600+HP big block Mopar on crappy gas.
It works. It cools charges and retards the flame front exactly like high octane fuel burns slower.

And why throw an FMIC into the equation? A stock IC would be fine if you just wanted to improve crap gas performance.
$5-800 for a good Aquamist system and you're done. You don't really need distilled water but it's a good idea. A good tap filter will work.

 

The cost vs. benefit factor for most already modded Mini owners is horrible; ex. $800 dollar intercooler for 2hp on pump gas is not worth it for me. Possibly the most cost efficient way for a large amount of safe horsepower from a MINI would be dropping in a turbocharged 2.4L SRT-4 motor...?

 

Dr O

I had the same results with my mods and MTH. I tried the octane boosters and Tolene finally, I scrubbed the MTH and went with Dinan S5 software. Have not had problems since. just me 2 cents.
Good luck.

 

it's true! One of the only ways to keep the knock in check that you find with the horrible horrible gas we are subjected to is water/meth injection....saw it on a dyno recently....guy was running 87 octane and pushing rediculous HP #s and boost...I don't think I would do the 87 version...but I would do 91....either way...th reality is...91 sucks...and the car MUST retard timing

 

Good luck with that.
When you market the kit people will be lined up at your door I can assure you.
Remember to pay your sponsorship fee

 

this is a good discussion. I too am having the same issues as Dr. O. Today I did a mix of 1/2 tank 91 octane and 1/2 tank 100 octane and the car ran like a dream. Not a single ping. I logged some timing data and it looked great. Unfortunately I will soon come to the harsh reality that I can't afford to continue to fill up with 100 octane gas. gotta figure out an alternative...

please keep your experiences/thoughts coming.........

 

Does 100+ octane throw any engine codes? I still have stock ECU and would love to try out the higher octane!

 

the meth and h20 injection would be the cheapest and most effective way to go.

FMIC is very expensive and I dont think it would help too much.

Good luck trying to fit an srt4 motor in the car you would need to cut out a lot of stuff and move the fire wall. I already looked into this option went I was changing motors.