I NEED some REAL answers on ECU's! If you don't know what your talking about PLEASE don't reply. Sorry I have been searching this web site for days. I still can't seem to get a straight answer. There seams to be alot of issues with the Unichips. Does anyone know what JCW cars do for engine mangment? Here's what I was planing on doing for mods on our 2006 MCS for a little more RELIABLE performance. 1st. I have installed a Dinan CAI. 2nd. I am going with a Milltek cat back exhaust system. 3rd. I was thinking of installing a 15% pulley? Now if I install a pulley would it be advisable to do some ecu mods (All the mods in the world won't do any good without a proper tune.) & maybe a little colder plugs? Mini's have enough issues without adding anymore! ( I have seen the local dearship buy back 4 cars in the last mo. and a half! )
Thanks for your time!

 

Have you checked out the MTH forums, lots of good info over there, I think you pretty much answered your own question about being advisable to mod the ECU. I know Tuls has been working with his own custom software and with software alone managed to get 25hp. Not really knowledgable on the JCW but I know a NAMer is at BMW tech school and upgraded to the JCW software without (any or very few mods) so he might be able to get you some specifics on that. I know it seems there is a overwhelming amount of info and finding the answer means a lot of digging to get what you need I'll see if I can find the links to some of the things I refrenced. In the mean time to maximize the current mods I suggest doing an ECU reset so the engine managment system is able to handle the more air. The CAI, exhaust and pulley are about the most reliable mods you can do also I believe you are a witness to an anomly with the dealers having to buy back cars, the majority of us have found the MINI to be extreme reliable though perhaps a bit delicate. Hope this is what your looking for.

 

First someone who was in a similar situation that needed advice on order to pursue things:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...51&postcount=5

The information about Tuls' software:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...6&postcount=35

JCW on a stock setup changes:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...95&postcount=6

 

JCW program is like any other remapping software out there like MTH or Unichip except it's more conservative and is designed to work with the JCW modifications.

Yes, a remapping with a pulley is HIGHLY suggested as you'll see alot more gain with the remap than just the pulley installed. I wouldn't recommend JCW with the aftermarket mods you have mentioned for 2 reasons.
1. You can get alot more power w/ an aftermarket remap
2. Just the JCW remap will not save your warranty or necessarily keep you from having issues.

Your mods sounds good, the colder plugs will definitely help as you increase the power output which equals hotter combustion tempertures.

Also consider upgrading the coil when you upgrade your pulley. Increasing the resistance in the chamber (more boost) will increase the demands of your coil. It's more of a preventive measure than a performance thing, even though you'll more likely be fine with the stock coils as the JCW also has a pulley (it's like 13% reduction or so) and retains the stock coils.

All in all I wouldn't recommend JCW programming, BUT it will work and you will notice a performance increase. But don't know if a dealership will sell you just the flash programming. Carefully consider both MTH and Unichip, or better yet, the absoutely BEST way is to get an SAFC and tune the car yourself or with a help of someone who knows how to use it to tune specifically for your mods. Hope this helps a bit.

 

First: "There seams to be alot of issues with the Unichips." Yes. Price, for one (vs. units such as the "Shark" and GIAC- last time I looked, around 300-400 less than Unichip!). Second there are pros and cons as to how it works. The Unichip is unique in the way it installs and operates. Some like its features, some don't. I was initially intrigued by its features, and thought about selecting it. After I learned more about it (mostly from thei own web site and the web sites of other ECU tune units) the price difference looked less and less like a good value to me. People who do LOTS of mods to the engine want ECU tunes that can easily be "re-mapped" to the latest and greatest stuff they have installed fo a modest additional cost. If you are sticking to your mod plan, and you select an ECU tune that matches your set of mods, and you do the ECU tune LAST, then you don't have to worry on that account. That is MY plan: do the ECU last, after all my other engine mods, and do probably the GIAC (I think -- I have some questions, too; since I don't even know yet whether I'm going to get an exhaust header or not.) but since I can get two GIAC complete for the price of one Unichip, the answer for me was obvious. I am NOT going inside the engine with any of my mods (e.g., cam, valves, head, etc.). And I am leaving the stock intercooler alone. So, at most, the list of mods I plan on includes intake, pulleys, exhaust. Simple. This gives me several "less-expensive" options for ECU tune, with which I probably will be satisfied. At each step, though, I plan to give the stock ECU a chance to adapt and see if it works for me. So far, I have done only the CAI (K&N because it is legal in California) many weeks ago. I like the sound, but I also found that by SOTP, the performance improvement got better over the time following the install. Next week, I am getting a 15% reduction Alta SC pulley and NGK colder plugs installed. I will not get any others done until some later date. By the way, you also wrote, "& maybe a little colder plugs?" The colder plugs are pretty much universal with the pulley mod from most of the reading I've done, so I would not get the pulley without them.

The only place in which I am in disagreement with you is the idea of installing the Milltek cat-cack (header too?) before the pulley. But that is only because the pulley is a bigger "bang-for-the-buck" than any exhaust mod I've heard of. However, if you are absolutely SET in your TOTAL mod plan, then I guess it doesn't matter much what order you proceed in (except doing the ECU LAST!)

I hope this helps you.

I had a couple of questions for you, though: You wrote, "Here's what I was planing on doing for mods on our 2006 MCS for a little more RELIABLE performance."

Has YOUR MCS been unreliable? If so, in what way? How is it NOT meeting your expectations? Or, if your MCS HAS been reliable, where are you getting the idea that they generally are not?

Have the returns to the local dealer been fo one reason or a variety of causes? Has "reliability" been an issue with the returns?

 

a friend of mine got a JCW tune from the dealer... and for free and he has no JCW! we did dyno runs awhile ago, and his turns out worse than mine with similar mods... in fact, running on the dyno... his car yielded lower A/F than mine with the MTH, and somehow made it even worse than the stock software... granted it could be the a/f reader that's throwing wrong numbers... but when ur going with aftermarket chip, the goal is to improve the A/F... i'd personally not recommend the JCW sofware unless i have the entire kit

MTH, unichip, all of them are pretty much the same thing, they re-design the fuel map to make it more efficient.... the GIAC is also worth a look.,.. i have the MTH old style for over a year now and it runs strong still, with ZERO problems

 

I don't doubt that JCW could actually hurt performance at all! JCW is pretty specifically tuned, and anything outside of their parameters it can either do nothing or hinder performance. He must have a good relationshp with his dealer for them to do that You hit 5 buttons to program it anyways, so I guess isn't asking them much

Oh to answer the reliability question. Generally if you have an 02 or the first production 05s you'll have some problems mainly due to major changes for those model years. Anything in between, a problem is usually pretty isolated and most likely your car will be fine if it's an 03 or an 04.

 

The reasons why I state that Mini's have issues is because I KNOW of (4) Mini's the local dealer HAD to buy back! We ordered our MCS with the S-Lites and the sales person failed to let us know for a $500 upgrade we could have gotten the R98's! There has been two ( buy back ) cars that I have been trying to get the wheels off of. So this would lead me to think Mini's have issues. Only mods I will consider will be easy to return to stock, so if the day comes we need to return the car we can do so! Sorry I have no faith in Mini's at this time. The MCS is a BLAST to drive and I would love to make it more fun! So this is why I want a RELIABLE engine management system.

Thanks for your time!

 

Well MINI's reliability isn't as bad as some people think it is. I'm sorry that from your experience that isn't the case, but overall MINI's reliability is pretty good.

You can stick to basic bolt ons and you won't have a problem, as for the remaps...you can read the Unichip and MTH threads and decide which one's suits you best. These can revert back to the stock programming at any time. Hope your MINI provide you with years of faithful service

 

find a good dealer... it will make the whole thing easier

also, as Barnabas already stated.... the problems occur typically only on older models that have mileage on them, that said.. mine has close to 47000km on it now... and i run it HARD!! and i have had no problems other than the leaking coolant bottle and the stumble.... the yoyo was cured pretty much by the chip, but the pulley made the effect much less pronounce.... as well as the colder plugs...

 

I have >32000 mls, and essentially NO mechanical troubles. The car is an '04 MCS, that is a daily driver with no track time, but some spirited twisties and rally action under the bonnet.

From all accounts I've seen, the engine is pretty bullet-poof, and typically taking a lot of mods, including increased redlines, with few hiccups.

As fa as EMS or ECUs, I have not heard of any that tended to make the cars less reliable. I suppose if you get inside the engine, or do a turbocharge, or other "wild" stuff, you begin to push the envelope, ECU or not. But Idefintely agree with Barnabas, that sticking with the stuff you have already outlined will be no trouble, regardless of which ECU you might decide to use.

(n any case, the bery best of luck with YOUR little beast!! Motor on!

 

You all have to understand that the Unichip is a Piggyback, and GIAC and MTH are just software reflashes for your stock ECU. While i haven't seen a GIAC or MTH up close and personal, I will state that the Unichip software allows YOU the user to change ignition maps and fuel maps. I DO NOT reccomend that you play around with the maps if you have even the SLIGHTEST clue as to what an ignition or fuel map is. I am currently working on a 300 dollar stand alone ECU that will hopefully one day, replace my stock ECU all together but I doubt it. I will control everything from traction control to launch control (two step, or anti-lag)to fuel maps, ignition maps, rev limiter, and etc. etc.

An example of an Ignition Map Non MINI Specific
An Example of a Fuel Map Non MINI Specific

*M.A.P Stands for Manifold Absolute Pressure just thought you should know.

 

OOh that looks like something I'm looking for. I've been looking for something where it allows me to edit the ROM data myself and reflash the map directly into the DME. Something like Hondata and their rom editor.

A standalone would be awesome, but I'll settle for a non-piggyback ign and fuel/air control. Additional features like setting the revlimiter and speed limiter would be great

 

Based on your mods - an ecu remap would be complimentary but not necessary. You can see by my sig the engine mods yet I am still running the stock ecu set-up. Do I plan on upgrading yes, why ? to maximize my engine mods but the car is running just fine as is.

When you consider an ecu re-map - list your priorities and understand the benefits of each.

For example - GIAC has limited programs but you take your car to a GIAC dealer and he installs it - your done.

Shark has limited programs but you plug and play.

MTH - offers various programs to match your cars mods, provides for a 12 month upgrades at no cost so if your mods are evloving this is a nice feature but it is a do it yourself installation (PC & cable). Good for some not good for others.

Unichip - has hardware to be added and wired in the car. Good for some and not others.

then there is evotech, miniprogram, ect........

Based on your mods there are numerous ecu upgrades that will do the job - its a question of $ and involvement.

 

I am very happy with the MTH tuner file. I sent MTH a list of my current mods along with a current dyno chart. I re-dyno'd post tuner file and the change was dramatic. I had improved A/F ratios, smoother curves and an a significant increase in whp (194) and torque (176). I compared my results with another car with exactly the same mods and they were virtually identical. I recently installed a Milltek exhaust and will re-dyno soon.

 

with then mods i have listed in my sig i upgraded my ECU with JCW programming, i did not feel performance gains, however at the same talking i never looked at ecu mods as a source of performance gains, in my book, it is for fine tune. My car runs smooth, no flat spots, not extremely fast, but looks like everything works in harmony. I am considering MTH tuner file in the near future, yet have not made up my mind which path i will follow. But before JCW programming, my car was running a little sluggish and the upgrade took care of it.

 

I can't seem to get a definitive answer for my question.
ECU's = $45 to $60 + Per HP! from what I gather! Sorry that's way to much coin for my pocket! I will do the Milltek cat back, maybe install a JCW pulley, ( Just use a torch to heat the pulley, an 8mm bolt with a large washer/s treaded into the end of the S/C shaft, tighten bolt until the end of the pulley is flush with the end of the S/C shaft, pressto pulley is installed & in-line.) Install some plugs, maybe wires and a coil. I could always take out a teck. for some pizza, cold ones and slide him a little CIF? To see if he could do an upgraded flash? If you know something better please fill me in. But please only if you know 1st. hand.

Thanks for your time!

 

I'm working on it. Do you happen to know Stef?

 

The MTH Tuner file is $25 to $35 per HP increase depending on mods. The Milltek exhaust is about $160 per HP increase. The wires and coils will provide almost no HP increase. I would do the ECU first if performance bang-for-buck is the objective.

 

Whatever. But if you are most concerned about $$/hp, then why are you buying an exhaust system?

 

Who knows what he was looking for, but we all know that time in the seat at a driving school then on the track is the best performance upgrade possible $ for $.
I recently removed my Unichip and noticed a significant if not substantial difference in performance compared to the stock ECU. That said, it's still not the best mod I've done, but now that I have it, I'd rather it in than out, of the car.

cheers, phil

 

First learn how the car is controlled. It uses a speed-density system. That means the T-MAP sensor reads intake air temp and pressure, and then knows how much the molecular density is. The RPM pick up off the crank tells the car how fast it's going, and the driver demand (e-gas pedal) tells the ECU what you want it to do.

The way it figures out how to run the engine is from volumetric efficiency models (look up tables) in the ECU that correspond to load, air density, and RPM. There are also safety routines that limit what the ECU will do to protect the motor. These look-up tables, along with the limits imposed by the safety routines, determin injector pulse timing and duration, and ignition timing. (Since it's a drive by wire system, the MAP sensor and all of the above go into controling the throttle body position as well).

To know when you should start changing the ECU (via reprogramming or piggyback), you have to keep the above in mind. Anything that severly changes the VE of the motor will benefit from ECU mods. The more sever the change, the more the potential benefit.

Because a pully is before the T-MAP sensor, an ECU mod isn't required.

Because the stock header is a significant portion of the exhaust system back pressure, a cat back doesn't really demand it (but if you gut your cats, and go free flow exhaust, you WILL need to remap, as the motor will breath very differently).

CAI doesn't need a re-map, as the difference for it is small, and it's before the SC!

Improved ICs don't need remaps, as they are before the T-MAP sensor.

A Head, or cam, or both should get a re-map, as it really changes the VE of the motor.

Some things to keep in mind.... What's your gas quality? Here in CA, we get crappy gas, and some of the benefits of MTH timing advance just get swept away by the timing retard induced by the knock sensor protection. Some have posted that going yet another range cooler in plugs gets rid of this, and I'll know for sure, I've got a set of IK24s sitting on my table waiting to be installed (it's raining and there's no room in the garage).

The HP improvement you will see with mods veries a lot, based on mods, re-map technique, and local gas quality.

The stock tune leaves power on the table, and just remapping a stock motor will get you some more mid-range torque, even if it doesn't get you much peak HP.

The JCW ECU flash is for a 14.something% reduction pully, and depending on the year, larger injectors (380 cc/m compared to 340 cc/m for the stock S). It will get you something if you use a 15% pully, and get the appropriate injectors for the map, but if you put a 380 cc/m map on a 15% pullied car with 340 cc/m injectors, you will run a bit leaner, but who knows what will happen with power. With good gas, power may go up! But with crappy gas, power may go down, as timing retard can take it all away.

But one thing to keep in mind, is that any "canned" map won't fit your build exactly, as not all parts are identical.

And that to get the most, the very most, from ECU tuning, you need to tune your ECU to your car specifically. This is the appeal of the Apexi. But it just does injector pulse suration, not timing. But to do it right, you need a wideband A/F meter, and an EGT sensor to make sure that you don't do something very, very bad.

The Unichip can be tuned by a local unichip rep, and while it is expensive, it can be programmed (at additional cost) to control things like water injection and other stuff too.

What's all this mean? IF you are going to tune your ECU for your car, it costs much more than just the map or piggyback you choose. If you don't have a performance meter and a wideband (another $400-$600), you have to pay someone to do it for you. That's dyno and labor time.

So if you don't want to go that route, chose among offerings like MTH, GIAC or EvoTech (I think that's it), or the Shark or AmD OneClick. But they all will leave some power yet to be had, unless you get the MTH, and go back and forth with A/F map logs from dyno runs, and look for timing retard as well.

There you go, I hope this helps....

Matt

 

I think Mini Meg is on his own mission from the hammer and tongs school;

"I can't seem to get a definitive answer for my question.
ECU's = $45 to $60 + Per HP! from what I gather! Sorry that's way to much coin for my pocket! I will do the Milltek cat back, maybe install a JCW pulley, ( Just use a torch to heat, large socket and a hammer to install. Old school press, the way we put togather old motorcycle trans..) Install some plugs, wires and maybe a coil."

anybody hammering on the pulley deserves what they get.

advice given seemed pretty good to me

 

Let's see. Milltek? Let's say $560 for easy math. Max HP? Let's say 8 to be kind.
That comes to $70/HP.

I do hope your joking with the torch and smash Hulk approach to replace the pulley.

 

To all that may care? I can't dip the shaft of the SC rotor in liquid nitrogen so I will need to heat the pulley to install it on the shaft! I WILL NOT SLAM IT! I will tighten it w/ a bolt in the end of S/C shaft to press fit it into place! Thru my High school years I work in a Aircraft turbine engine repair shop. This is the way they assemble aircraft engines for all you so called think you know it all engineers! jlm what do you manufacture? Girl Scout cookies? How in the hell do you think they installed the 1st. reduction pullys! I'm sorry to you who do know what your talking about, but for you who don't, keep your mouth shut!
As for the Milltek I like the sound and it has some of the best HP! That won't make you go hard of hearing.