Ever since my JCW install I've heard coolant sloshing around in lines at start up. I've complained here about oil temps steadily on the rise. This past weeked I drained the coolant and installed new coolant and a 180 F thermostat. The Chrono Package oil temp gauge is nearly one mark cooler. In theory, this represents a 50 degree F change in temps.

I find it hard to beleive that the 180 thermostat made such a large difference in temps...rather, I think the combination of trapped air and a cooler thermostat made the difference. Does this make sense?

 

It's possible. The oil cooler is just after the water pump so if the water pump was pumping a little air, the cooler wouldn't be working as efficiently. Apparently, this is how 19% pulley owners can tell if their water pump is cavitating.

What type of coolant did you use for the flush?

 

BMW/Mini coolant. Today I added a little (per directions) Redline Water Wetter.

 

i have had a little gugrle since day one in my mcs, same thing 2 months later and 3k miles.

on the old supras i have had the best way to get the air out is jack the front end up really high and take the radiator cap off and run the car for a bit. this allows the air to escape from the heater circuit in the car. i have no idea if this is also an easy fix for the mini.

it

 

I overfilled the overflow tank a bit. The coolant expands and contracts and it has seemed to pump out the air through a few cycles of heating and cooling. Do you hear the sloshing even though the overflow tank is filled to where it should be?

Matt

 

I would do the same thing as doc. Just over fill it, and drive it a while.

 

Or maybe just bleed it. It has worked for me every time. Remember that there are two bleed valves.

 

I bled to the point where liquid was coming out, but I still had some air trapped. Maybe running the motor for a bit would have moved the air to where it would bleed out.

Matt

 

Did you also bleed at the t-stat housing? I assume so, so here's how I have been doing it.

Open heater. Top up coolant tank. Open valve at upper hose. If it does not spill out water then it should beging to over flow soon. If not, pour right into the hose and close the screw when it's full. Do not over tighten the screw as it may break down the road. Now open the screw at the t-stat housing. If the engine is too cool and nothing is coming out, close it and let the engine run for a while. As it heats up try again until it is bleed, then close the screw. With the cap off and keeping an eye on the coolant level rev and hold the engine at 2k rpm for a couple of minutes. Top off the level and check it again in the morning.

If this hasn't worked for you, here's an idea. Recently I installed a pulley on a friends car that complained about the water burble and the level always being low. While I was in there I noticed that one of the freeze plugs was seeping. This was right behind the charger at the pulley. There are bolts that hold it to the block so I thought what the hell and gave them a snug. After bleeding the system as described, the level has stayed where I left it two weeks ago. I don't know if it is related, but if water can get out, then air can get in.

My car also always had a low level (75k miles) until I finally decided to bleed it. It has maintained the same level for last few thousand miles.

I'm not trying to insult anyone with these directions, but there have been a few questions lately,so I thought it was time. This is how I have done it in the shop and so far no complaints.

If you still can't get it to work, I would try a pressure tester to A.) check for leaks and B.) maybe "jar something loose tiger".

 

I never used the second bleeder.

Matt

 

No prob. Locate the corner of the intercooler cover closest to the driver. Look down and you will see the shiney 10mm head of the bleed screw.

I finally bleed this sucker after installing the m7 t-stat. It is sad how happy I am to see the level in the right place when I check it.

 

how do you like the t-stat? I just put one in as well....

FWIW, I went with 2 bottles of Water Wetter, about 10-20% Antifreeze, and distilled water for the rest... I don't live where it gets that cold. The antifreeze is more for corrosion prevention than anything else...

Matt

 

I love it. I have had very little pinging since it's been in, even after mth tuner. As you will see, it cruises at much lower temps and with short burst of power the temp is still lower than cruising stock. The little bit of testing I did showed about a 5 degree delta in timing vs. stock. I did see a couple of codes at 40*f, but I was expecting it and infact was suprised it didn't happen sooner. Gas mileage has not decreased (this was my only real concern with this mod). So it's a winner in my book. I'm about to hook the scanner back up as the temps have been in the 80's lately.

Side note: The same car that I bleed also had some pinging issues when stock, but now even with the 15% it is better if not gone. Maybe a relationship there. This car's upper radiator hose was bone dry and showing 220*f temps when cruising with 70*f ambient. I haven't checked it lately though. Maybe enough water to cover the temp sensor, but not enough to cool the head?

 

I went nuts trying to bleed the system; first, I made a 50% mix. Then, I let the engine idle with the bleed screw in the hose in front of the IC removed - not just unscrewed. As the fluid burbled out the bleed hole, I squeezed various lines until pure coolant was coming out. No more burbling and the fluid level remains constant - with respect to temps.

The 180 thermostat is nice...a wee bit of a PITA to get to though.

 

I would like to comment on the observation that antifreeze is for freeze or corrosion protection only.

Everything I have heard/read through the years indicate that the antifreeze not only provides protection against freezing, it also helps prevent boil over when the engine gets warm.

You probably know that water boils at 212°F. If I remember correctly, the combination of the antifreeze solution and the pressurized cooling system raises the boiling point of the system.

Running less than the recommend level of anti-freeze also means you are diluting the anti-corrosion chemicals.

You should run what you want, but I would not use less than a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water. This is what the manufacturers (both cars and antifreeze companies) recommend. This level ensures you have adequate corrosion protection and adequate freeze/boil over protection.

 

I'm certainly not a scientist or an expert in things such as this. However, I think that water posseses an incredible heat wicking capability. Water hits a wall when it saturates with heat and everything turns to steam. Adding ethlene glycol raises the saturation point, but, at some point it also dilutes(no pun) water's ability to wick heat. So, a 50% mix is desirable for cold climates, but a 20% mix probably strikes that wonderfull compromise had only in warm climates.

I could be really wrong about this...Matt?

 

That's correct. Water has a very high thermal conductivity while ethlene glycol has nearly none. The glycol's purpose is to lower the freezing point and raise the boiling point of the mixture. Adding Water Wetter increases the thermal conductivity even more. In hot climates, you still have to balance the mixture as traffic might raise the coolant temp too high for a low % mix of glycol.

 

so adding it does reduce the amount of heat the liquid takes away per degree of coolant temp rise. Also remember, the 50/50 mix is a mix that works EVERYWHERE and gives very good low temp protection. I found this site that has this graphic for the freezing point of EG antifreeze...

So technically, if it never gets anything lower than 32 deg F, you don't need the stuff at all!

looking at the boiling point, it only raises it by 13 deg F at atmospheric pressure. This site has lots and lots of good information on the stuff. All tables, otherwise I'd have just posted the graph. So the effect on boiling point is very small. You can also see the change in heat capacity there.

I didn't find any good references on the anti-corrosion mix needed, but 10-20% mix is fine is something I seem to remember. But my memory has been wrong before.....

Anyway, based on the above information, and the particulars in your location, you can figure a good mix for you!

Matt

ps, FWIW, it looks like for most of the world, the 50/50 mix reccomendation just sells a lot more ethylene glycol!

 

Kapps,

So...would it be safe to say, er write, that there is a sweet spot somewhere to be found by mixing water, ethlene glycol and water wetter - for summer time temps?

This is a question

Water wetter breaks down water's surface tension thereby increasing surface area. This should increase water's ability to absorb more heat and/or give more heat off to a cooling mechanism?

 

that's it exactly. Technical term is a "surfactant", but watch my spelling! It's to improve the heat transfer at the interfaces.

Matt

 

I'm a visual person Doc so I'll ask another way just to make sure.

The surfactant allows a higher volume of heat transfer at both ends - absorbtion and removal? As an aside, what units measure heat volume?

 

And the unit of measure is in energy, either calories, kilocalories (which ironically is the calories listed on food labels), joules or for those into the CGS system, ergs, or for those still in the stone age (or gas age?) BTUs!

If you think of the interface as a barrier to heat transfer, this makes it "thinner" in some abstract way. So more heat (read energy) can flow through the barrier per unit time.

Matt

ps, sorry, the nerd in me sometimes comes a little to far out of his cage!

 

Okay, I got the barrier thing. Thanks

 

Hello
My Cooling System makes a noise like "shhhhh" near water reservoir...

What it could be?

Best Regards

 

that is some seepage of pressure at the cap. Try turning it a little tigheter. I also think sediment can get in there. A lot of them spit a bit. Keep in mind that our pressure caps are lots higher pressure than most are used to.

Matt