Is that an Avg temp? At idle? At 60mph? What was the outlet temp? Was that at cruise or under acceleration? The Glen is a pretty hilly circuit so you were either going uphill or downhill which will have an impact. Also you said it was 70º and the DFIC was running under 84º and high humidity.

My inlet temps were cooler as well but that fact alone has very little bearing on efficiencies.
So really your post is fairly meaningless as it is.

If you have more information to add please do.

 

It was measured before the braking zone to the “inner loop,” 110+/- MPH, 5 th gear. Repeated over 40 times. This is actually the correct data to look at; track tested, under load, high RPMs utilizing the Mini's sensors.
My contacts at Roush racing this morning have reassured me that the 16 deg F ambient temperature difference (70 to 87 deg F range) will have little bearing on under bonnet temperature at the speed we are talking about. What do I think it all means? Leave the stock IC alone, get a bonnet scoop and invest in some DEs.

 

So it looks like we all agree it's not only how the air is flowing through the IC/engine bay... it's also a matter of correctly gathering as much air as possible without creating too much drag. (A 2ftx2ft scoop would be a little ridiculous)((albeit funny as hell))(((still ridiculous)))

What about the foamy stuff that the stocker has around the back of the scoop/intercooler. With Alta's IC Diverter they changed it to rubber. Does that have much impact on the flow?

 

I re-routed my foamy stuff to come down on the inside of the "S" (on the stock diverter) rather than on the outside. I don't know if it did anything or not, but it just didn't make sense for the foam to include the part of the diverter that sits over the IC outlet.

 

I know TonyB at one time did some testing and mods with his GRS. I followed his lead and made a few mods. I replaced the rear seal with closed cell foam and painted the open cell foam with high temp. RTV. I didn't have my temp probes at the time but it just made sense. I put a piece of hose up against the foam and blew through it. With a damp finger on the other side I could feel the air flow through it. After the RTV treatment I could have busted an eardrum

I like the Alta design for the air diverter but would rather, for personal aesthetic reasons, like to invert it. Have the seal on the hood. Since the foam on my GRS has compressed a little I don't think it seals as well as it could I'll either source new foam or mod it.

Tinker tinker

997 IC mods on the wall...

 

Still has little bearing on the discussion of efficiencies.

My contact at TAZ Backyard Racing tells me so.

 

Efficiencies? I might be missing something here. An IC cools the air and a good one does not lose too much pressure. We know the stock IC is good with pressure. I’m finding it is good with temps as well. What am I missing?

 

This thread is about flow through the external cooling fins not through the internal IC core.
Yes the stock IC is good with temps. Is some of what we discuss here relevant to people with stock ICs? Yes. Is that what this thread is about? No.

If I, or someone here, could measure the flow through the IC accurately(not the core, the external cooling fins) that would be nice but I certainly don't have a flow bench lying about much less know how to use one.
So your mention of inlet temp readings as a standalone temp data point doesn't help with testing or measuring IC thermal efficiency. Improving that efficiency is what this thread is about.

k-huevo did a very cool thread a while back on Heat Management
That's what first got me thinking about this. I may still go that route along with other options.

 

I got that much ok. I'm just not sure that even the new M7 DFIC, with all the supposed research behind it, is a monumental improvement over stock. With the bonnet scoop they appear to work fine. Maybe air to water unit?

 

I think a number of people, myself included, are waiting on some data to see if it is a major improvement.

Air to water is another leap in expense and not really all that worthwhile on the street.
For you on The Glen it would probably pay dividends.
For me in auto-x? Nah.

 

I thought this was about getting the most out of whatever IC was on the the car be it stock MINI, ALTA,GRS,BBR or even M7; and doing so through heat management and optimized airflow.

 

See, I'm not the only one confused.
For autocrossing, don't you want low-end torque and grip? If so, a larger IC and CAI might not be the way to go. How about a JCW supercharger and a Quaife?

 

It is...... ((insert shifty eyes and akward silence))


so anyway...

I was outside sitting on the curb staring into the hood scoop after work today... and I realized 3 things that just aren't right.

1. The diverter sits above the bottom lip of the scoop.
2. The 2 inches on the right side are meaningless (blowing over the S of the diverter)
3. The actual space above the IC isn't as much as I thought it would be. It's REALLY narrow in there.

I know that may be repeating some of what has been said... but I'm going to focus on these things. (along side of stopping air from entering underneith.)

 

True.
My mistake.

 

Can't picture what you mean in #1. Pics or different description please.

Visualization and restatement of core objectives.... WTF.... I thought I was at work for a second

 

Wait a second Ben what are you trying to pull here

The scoop was made too big to make it athstetically pleasing and centered, though the excess plastic on the IC diverter seems like it keeps heat were we don't want it, while still blocking that heat from getting to the IC, not ideal but semi functional. I think the diverter is going to need some work. Maybe if we take the air entering the scoop and focus it on the IC with the diverter and leave the area over the intake manifold downtube open for venting? The more i think about this the more a louvred hood seems very smart to have continuious airflow in (front) and out (hood) too bad thats a little over my $100 budget.

 

The rear of the hood near the base of the windshield is actually a high pressure area, which is why "cowl induction" scoops and CAI work. Venting the hood near the back would increase pressure in the engine compartment and thus reduce airflow through the intercooler and radiator.

Of course this presents an interesting idea: a 1967-68 Z/28 style cowl induction scoop configured to feed the intercooler, anyone? The extra hood clearance provided by such a scoop would also allow more space for mounting a fan directly above the intercooler.

 

Do you have a Vendor name. Thanks...

 

M7tuning is currently producing/selling our design...here's the developement history and testing that was done...

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...intake+project




Sid

Edit...sorry...thought you were asking about the intercooler scoop...but maybe this is of relevance to your original post...

 

No harm, no foul. I currently use a BBR bonnet scoop. Anyone have this one: http://www.benferperformance.com/mai...uct=BFP-MCOWLS
?

 

We're once again back to louvers.

Really though the testing has been done. Over 25 mph the under hood heat starts to evacuate very well.
Here's an old thread

Cowl induction works but it is really only effective at higher speeds.

This'll get some air in there

 

The last debate was, do you use the forward facing ones or do you design some that face the windshield?

I wish these had been available back when I did my testing. It'd be nice to see someone expand on that and see what kind of pressure these develop.

 

shankrabbit, thanks much. I finaly did figure it out.

 

Hahha... Sorry...

Here is another fantastically drawn work image... (note the wonderful use of color and chiaroscuro shading)

 

I should also add something I've been thinking about as terms of making the air flow.

While I agree that the amount of air is an issue, I've also been thinking about airplanes and aviation in terms of air.

I was just thinking about how important it is to make the air flow smoothly and efficiently. Not just to shove air in, but to shove air in a smooth flow and direction.

Think about how having the correct flow of air can lift both a little puddle jumper and a huge 747 filled with people. More then likely they both take off at the same speeds so they both have the same air... but just the direction and management of the air over the wings can lift a giant steel tube into the air.

So what's more important... the direction of the air... or the amount of air?