Drivetrain installed engine damper, what do you guys think....
#201
12-15-2006, 11:09 AM
OK, so I read through this entire thread, and am impressed by all the reviews from "S" owners. But unless I missed something, I haven't seen anything from Cooper owners. I'm thinking of putting this on my Xmas list, but want to know how much of a difference this will make on an MC. Any impressions from Cooper owners?
Here is a thread that Octaneguy started on MC impressions.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=77535
#202
12-15-2006, 11:12 AM
#204
12-15-2006, 11:18 AM
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Hi ProfessorDave,
Here is a thread that Octaneguy started on MC impressions.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.com...ad.php?t=77535
Here is a thread that Octaneguy started on MC impressions.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.com...ad.php?t=77535
Oh, and since I'm at it, if one drills the "closer" hole on the frame, what advantage does this produce?
#205
12-15-2006, 11:36 AM
Thanks LOTF, I did read that thread and trust Richard's impressions completely. Still, I'd like to here from a larger sample, so if there are other MC owners with this mod, post your thoughts!
Oh, and since I'm at it, if one drills the "closer" hole on the frame, what advantage does this produce?
Oh, and since I'm at it, if one drills the "closer" hole on the frame, what advantage does this produce?
Allows you to adjust the pre-tension.
Using the stock hole you have zero pre-tension.
I drilled a hole to test....and I found that it felt better with no pre-tension.... and have gone back to using the damper attached to the stock hole.
Btw do you have a manual transmission?
Shoe
#206
12-16-2006, 06:29 AM
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#207
12-16-2006, 09:47 AM
In essence it makes the damper stiffer because you are putting tension on it before any force is exerted by the engine movement...so you're reducing how much dampening the damper can do.
I believe you can use it to tweak the balance between damper function and NVH...but I have it set to zero pre-tension and have no vibration at all.
#208
12-16-2006, 12:18 PM
OK, so I read through this entire thread, and am impressed by all the reviews from "S" owners. But unless I missed something, I haven't seen anything from Cooper owners. I'm thinking of putting this on my Xmas list, but want to know how much of a difference this will make on an MC. Any impressions from Cooper owners?
S and Cooper use the same stock engine mounts, so a damper will have the same effect on either. The reviews from S owners are equally valid for Coopers.
#209
12-16-2006, 02:24 PM
the biggest difference i noticed was accelerating over bumpy roads.. roads
with repetitive short bumps and dips. those use to make my motor just
bounce around and took foreever to spool up. now, it's a lot more
consistent spooling up as if driving over smoother roads.
and i think i mentioned this before.
with repetitive short bumps and dips. those use to make my motor just
bounce around and took foreever to spool up. now, it's a lot more
consistent spooling up as if driving over smoother roads.
and i think i mentioned this before.
#210
12-17-2006, 09:03 AM
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I really appreciate all the feedback. It may seem silly that I am so hesitant to add such an affordable mod, but I worry about messing with the movement of the engine (I had a bad experience after changing a transmission mount once...sent vibrations back to the rear end instead of up through the cabin on a pickup). It sounds like the vast majority of MC and MCS owners who've added this are satisfied.
#211
12-17-2006, 11:35 AM
Here's what Octaneguy (fellow vendor) posted about his impressions:
Here's the link to the thread he started too:
Octaneguy Thread
Let me know if you want to order!
Thanks.
Shoe
I participated in the LOTF group buy on the engine damper, of course I got mine in blue. I'm posting my impressions here in the Cooper (non S) forum so that other Cooper owners can decide whether to do this mod as well.
First off, the total cost was less than $50.
Install took about 15 minutes, although this was after losing a part and waiting a week to get a replacement, then doing it again after learning what NOT to do.
The end result after several weeks of driving is WOW.
Now, before I get too far, anyone who has never experienced what a damper can do--that's me raising my hand-- may not know what to expect, or why one would do this mod. Admittedly, I was skeptical, and was buying the mod more for bling than actual performance gain.
So what does the damper do?
Shift your car into 1st gear. Now leave it in gear. Accelerate hard to 6000 rpm, now abruptly let off the gas. What happens? You should feel the car lurch. Repeat this a few times, stomp the gas to WOT then release the pedal. Seems normal behavior. The MINI jumps forward, then pulls back as you release the gas.
With the damper installed, that lurching disappears and instead is replaced with a feeling that's hard to describe, but similar to a more "connected feel" and smoother. It's not about shifting smoother either. It's what happens when you are already in gear. Shifting between gears is smoother too, because surprisingly, until you feel what it's like to drive without the engine moving all the time, the transition to new gears is also smoother and more "connected". It feels like more power is being placed to the wheels and not lost in the movement.
I'm excited to experience the results during the next Autox in a few weeks. I'm guessing it's going to only aid me in controlling the throttle and will assist me in being smoother!
Some people say there is increased vibration in the steering wheel after this mod. This isn't something I have noticed, but then again, my ride is pretty stiff, and it's not all that quiet either, so maybe I'm just not aware. I asked my wife about her impressions after letting her drive and not telling her about the mods, and her reaction was that it felt smoother and easier to change gears.
So there you have it. Wondering about the engine damper? I had to Dremel out an existing hole to make the install easier. That took all of 10 minutes with lots of sparks flying. I also put a racing jack under my engine and jacked it up a few inches so I could install a bolt easier. Sounds scary but was pretty simple.
I wouldn't drive an MC without this mod. Highly recommended.
First off, the total cost was less than $50.
Install took about 15 minutes, although this was after losing a part and waiting a week to get a replacement, then doing it again after learning what NOT to do.
The end result after several weeks of driving is WOW.
Now, before I get too far, anyone who has never experienced what a damper can do--that's me raising my hand-- may not know what to expect, or why one would do this mod. Admittedly, I was skeptical, and was buying the mod more for bling than actual performance gain.
So what does the damper do?
Shift your car into 1st gear. Now leave it in gear. Accelerate hard to 6000 rpm, now abruptly let off the gas. What happens? You should feel the car lurch. Repeat this a few times, stomp the gas to WOT then release the pedal. Seems normal behavior. The MINI jumps forward, then pulls back as you release the gas.
With the damper installed, that lurching disappears and instead is replaced with a feeling that's hard to describe, but similar to a more "connected feel" and smoother. It's not about shifting smoother either. It's what happens when you are already in gear. Shifting between gears is smoother too, because surprisingly, until you feel what it's like to drive without the engine moving all the time, the transition to new gears is also smoother and more "connected". It feels like more power is being placed to the wheels and not lost in the movement.
I'm excited to experience the results during the next Autox in a few weeks. I'm guessing it's going to only aid me in controlling the throttle and will assist me in being smoother!
Some people say there is increased vibration in the steering wheel after this mod. This isn't something I have noticed, but then again, my ride is pretty stiff, and it's not all that quiet either, so maybe I'm just not aware. I asked my wife about her impressions after letting her drive and not telling her about the mods, and her reaction was that it felt smoother and easier to change gears.
So there you have it. Wondering about the engine damper? I had to Dremel out an existing hole to make the install easier. That took all of 10 minutes with lots of sparks flying. I also put a racing jack under my engine and jacked it up a few inches so I could install a bolt easier. Sounds scary but was pretty simple.
I wouldn't drive an MC without this mod. Highly recommended.
Octaneguy Thread
Let me know if you want to order!
Thanks.
Shoe
#212
12-17-2006, 12:46 PM
I really appreciate all the feedback. It may seem silly that I am so hesitant to add such an affordable mod, but I worry about messing with the movement of the engine (I had a bad experience after changing a transmission mount once...sent vibrations back to the rear end instead of up through the cabin on a pickup). It sounds like the vast majority of MC and MCS owners who've added this are satisfied.
the motor to vibrate freely.
#213
01-09-2007, 12:58 PM
Well, now that the holiday is over (and I have some cash again), I'm ready to start thinking about ordering this puppy. Anyone else interested in exploring the idea of another group buy? Of course, the market may be saturated or the thing has enough momentum to make a group buy undesirable for the manufacturer, so if you're interested post in here and we'll see what happens.
#214
01-10-2007, 04:13 AM
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hey guys and gals,
i just got my 'engine damper' installed in my 06 S. WOW! MUST HAVE MOD'.
what a difference with a small amount of money spent.
my mini is SOLID
and its much more enjoyable to ride now, dont get me wrong, i liked it even without but now i am so much happier with my ride.
the throttle response is much efficient thus giving us greater torque. the engine noise has reduced and the feel of it all around is SOLID !
A MUST HAVE MOD. paid only $62 with shipping from 'sales@shoe-in.net'.
contact shoe and get one and trust me, i dont work for this person but i wish i did.
Shoe, thanks bro . i hope every mini riders will get one so that our mini-alliance will be happier with our coopers.
to the riders who have theirs, please share this great mod. dont keep it for yourself, lets share good things together....
i just got my 'engine damper' installed in my 06 S.
WOW! MUST HAVE MOD'. what a difference with a small amount of money spent.
my mini is SOLID
and its much more enjoyable to ride now, dont get me wrong, i liked it even without but now i am so much happier with my ride.the throttle response is much efficient
thus giving us greater torque. the engine noise has reduced and the feel of it all around is SOLID !A MUST HAVE MOD. paid only $62 with shipping from 'sales@shoe-in.net'.
contact shoe and get one and trust me, i dont work for this person but i wish i did.
Shoe, thanks bro
. i hope every mini riders will get one so that our mini-alliance will be happier with our coopers.to the riders who have theirs, please share this great mod. dont keep it for yourself, lets share good things together....
anybody want to come help me with mine when i get it in the mail from shoe? please
#215
01-10-2007, 04:35 AM
I installed Shoe's damper right after Christmas - using the stock hole. Other than trying to install it with fat fingers, I didn't have any problems. Now, the jerkiness is gone, and the torque steer is VERY subdued, and I think I might notice a bit more vibration. Not sure, but think I feel it in the pedals. Definitely install a damper. Pat
#216
01-10-2007, 12:39 PM
transfer of load
I always wonder what happens when you stiffen up one part of a system to the other parts. So if the MINI's engine moves when throttled and the damper removes some of this movement, where does the force that caused the movement go? (If I were more inclined in an engineering sense I'd be able to use more accurate terminology...I hope I'm getting my point across). I have visions of broken motor mounts and stuff getting vibrated loose from the engine.
It also makes me wonder about the remaining mounts that are likely fluid-filled. How do they like it when their elastomer doesn't get a chance to be very elastic?
Will those mounts become brittle more quickly since they are not being moved as they were designed to?
#217
01-10-2007, 12:54 PM
I wonder the very same thing: You are transfering load, that's all. If a stock engine allows that load to "move" the engine the dampener must take that load and put it somewhere else. One thing is sure: It puts that load somewhere the original designers did not intend. Depending on how it's mounted I would guess that it transfers the load (and the vibration) to the frame. The engine makes the same about of load vibration no matter how well it's bolted down. It's just like squeezing a balloon.
It also makes me wonder about the remaining mounts that are likely fluid-filled. How do they like it when their elastomer doesn't get a chance to be very elastic?
Will those mounts become brittle more quickly since they are not being moved as they were designed to?
It also makes me wonder about the remaining mounts that are likely fluid-filled. How do they like it when their elastomer doesn't get a chance to be very elastic?
Will those mounts become brittle more quickly since they are not being moved as they were designed to?
But, please, if anyone DOES know of any reported consequences, post them for us all here.
#218
01-10-2007, 12:59 PM
#219
01-10-2007, 01:01 PM
#220
01-23-2007, 01:12 PM
My dampener should be sent soon, and I'm checking to be sure I understand the install...
Can someone explain to me the "masking tape method" of holding things together during the install? I've been looking back through this but I must be missing it? Do you just use a scrap of masking tape to hold the frame bolt and mounting plate assembly together while you get the nut started, or is there something more to it than that?
Also, have people been tightening down the dampener, driving for a while, then re-tightening everything again? Nothing in the installation instructions calls for a torque wrench, so are you just cranking these down as tight as you can or what?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Can someone explain to me the "masking tape method" of holding things together during the install? I've been looking back through this but I must be missing it? Do you just use a scrap of masking tape to hold the frame bolt and mounting plate assembly together while you get the nut started, or is there something more to it than that?
Also, have people been tightening down the dampener, driving for a while, then re-tightening everything again? Nothing in the installation instructions calls for a torque wrench, so are you just cranking these down as tight as you can or what?
Thanks!
Thanks!
#221
01-23-2007, 01:24 PM
imagox- i took down that pict so kinda hard to explain, but you assemble
the unit as explained in the manual that you print from a site (not included
in the package) and tape it together so it doesn't fall apart.
then just torque down the nuts and bolts. you dont need to torque it
that hard. by hand, i would say probably no more than 35-40lbs. and w/
any install, a good thing to check the torque after your initial test
drive.
the unit as explained in the manual that you print from a site (not included
in the package) and tape it together so it doesn't fall apart.
then just torque down the nuts and bolts. you dont need to torque it
that hard. by hand, i would say probably no more than 35-40lbs. and w/
any install, a good thing to check the torque after your initial test
drive.
#222
01-23-2007, 01:24 PM
My dampener should be sent soon, and I'm checking to be sure I understand the install...
Can someone explain to me the "masking tape method" of holding things together during the install? I've been looking back through this but I must be missing it? Do you just use a scrap of masking tape to hold the frame bolt and mounting plate assembly together while you get the nut started, or is there something more to it than that?
Also, have people been tightening down the dampener, driving for a while, then re-tightening everything again? Nothing in the installation instructions calls for a torque wrench, so are you just cranking these down as tight as you can or what?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Can someone explain to me the "masking tape method" of holding things together during the install? I've been looking back through this but I must be missing it? Do you just use a scrap of masking tape to hold the frame bolt and mounting plate assembly together while you get the nut started, or is there something more to it than that?
Also, have people been tightening down the dampener, driving for a while, then re-tightening everything again? Nothing in the installation instructions calls for a torque wrench, so are you just cranking these down as tight as you can or what?
Thanks!
Thanks!
You can use the masking tape to hold the bolt through the heim joint + bell washer together because space is rather tight at the frame area.
Then you slide the bolt through the frame, through the plate, and then use the nut.
The instructions don't require a torque wrench btw.
You can use two open ended 17mm wrenches (one stubby is HIGHLY recommended) or you can use a socket wrench + stubby wrench.
Take your time and you should be fine!
Shoe
#223
01-23-2007, 01:28 PM
My dampener should be sent soon, and I'm checking to be sure I understand the install...
Can someone explain to me the "masking tape method" of holding things together during the install? I've been looking back through this but I must be missing it? Do you just use a scrap of masking tape to hold the frame bolt and mounting plate assembly together while you get the nut started, or is there something more to it than that?
Can someone explain to me the "masking tape method" of holding things together during the install? I've been looking back through this but I must be missing it? Do you just use a scrap of masking tape to hold the frame bolt and mounting plate assembly together while you get the nut started, or is there something more to it than that?
Originally Posted by ImagoX
Also, have people been tightening down the dampener, driving for a while, then re-tightening everything again? Nothing in the installation instructions calls for a torque wrench, so are you just cranking these down as tight as you can or what?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Thanks!
Thanks!
#225
01-23-2007, 03:13 PM
I used the "tape" trick, a 17mm open/box wrench, and a short (6") Craftsman knuckle buster (adjustable wrench). It took a little finesse but can certainly be effectively done.
Two tricks:
1) Do a "dry run" with just the damper first, so you know where your problem areas will be
2) Do a careful job of delicately taping the parts together so the tape is strong enough to hold, yet not in the way and asily removable once used. Harder to describe than to do.
My hands aren't that small, and smaller hands would certainly help. I've removed and installed it twice now, successful and easy both times and both times under 10 minutes from pop-the-hood to turn-off-the-garage-light. Only noted issue was the tight clearance, and some light paint scratches from me not tightening it enough the first time.
I was unlucky enough to drop one spacer washer but it bounced out of the engine compartment underneath. Had I not been as lucky, it would've been really good to have the telescopic magnetic part picker-upper.
Two tricks:
1) Do a "dry run" with just the damper first, so you know where your problem areas will be
2) Do a careful job of delicately taping the parts together so the tape is strong enough to hold, yet not in the way and asily removable once used. Harder to describe than to do.
My hands aren't that small, and smaller hands would certainly help. I've removed and installed it twice now, successful and easy both times and both times under 10 minutes from pop-the-hood to turn-off-the-garage-light. Only noted issue was the tight clearance, and some light paint scratches from me not tightening it enough the first time.
I was unlucky enough to drop one spacer washer but it bounced out of the engine compartment underneath. Had I not been as lucky, it would've been really good to have the telescopic magnetic part picker-upper.