Drivetrain 62 kit on its way to M7 ... Yes it is happening
#304
02-16-2007, 12:18 PM
#305
02-16-2007, 12:49 PM
Please explain how the lightweight crank pulley at high red line caused the oil pump to fail. Could not just the high red line play a large part in the failure?
How did you determine that the crank pulley was involved in the failure?
How did you determine that the crank pulley was involved in the failure?
Sorry about the delay but we wanted to have all of our ducks in a row on this one . In testing the M62 we discovered a entirely new issue . We have joined the ranks of a few cars that have discovered that high RPM and light weight crank pulleys do not play well together . I have a red line of 7200 and have not had a issue and I have many miles on this as it was our first unit built. Based on this recent development we are cautioning anyone with raised rev limits to be cautious when thinking about lightweight crank pulleys.The car in question has a custom software pkg which allows for a red line of 8250 RPM and the car has hit that many times in the months prior to the m62 install. Well to be specific the oil pump gear decided it had enough and let go thankfully at idle but some pieces bounced around in the oil pan, got into the crank and took out a piston which put a hurt on some of the internals. The motor is being rebuilt as we speak and we hope to have more info as soon as possible. Again sorry for the delay but we wanted to do a through post mortem and make absolutely sure it was not M62 related.
Randy
M7 Tuning
Randy
M7 Tuning
#306
02-16-2007, 01:10 PM
3rd Gear
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If so I would say this pretty much is a good place to start!
the axe that i have to grind is one that is labled M stands for misleading or marketing.
As a summary for the last 10 pages or so you can read what i am talking about.
1 M7 over promsing and under delivering time after time after time.
2 Always hyping there product about how it is going to outflow everything else, (think ags, throttle bodies, DFIC etc...) and no results
3 Always announcing how much better his product is without any results. Hell, there fully built cars struggle to break 200whp with cylinder heads.
4 DFIC and that whole debocle... not that what i say is set in stone... but the fact that alta posted about a year before M7 did with the intercooler spoke volumes to me. Either way, personally and again i said PERSONALLY i don't think that the DFIC is all that it is cracked up to be. but i probably shouldn't of said that otherwise we will get this to 60 pages long...
As a summary for the last 10 pages or so you can read what i am talking about.
1 M7 over promsing and under delivering time after time after time.
2 Always hyping there product about how it is going to outflow everything else, (think ags, throttle bodies, DFIC etc...) and no results
3 Always announcing how much better his product is without any results. Hell, there fully built cars struggle to break 200whp with cylinder heads.
4 DFIC and that whole debocle... not that what i say is set in stone... but the fact that alta posted about a year before M7 did with the intercooler spoke volumes to me. Either way, personally and again i said PERSONALLY i don't think that the DFIC is all that it is cracked up to be. but i probably shouldn't of said that otherwise we will get this to 60 pages long...
As i said back on page 8 or 10 or something, I would like to see this car run and make some power. I still want to see the kit work. I am very well aware that failure is a big part of success! I have been there.
My point is be strait forward from the get go and let people know what is going on. This smoke in mirrors marketing will only get you so far before your true colors are shown.
#307
02-16-2007, 01:25 PM
#308
02-16-2007, 01:29 PM
#310
02-16-2007, 01:49 PM
I asked the same thing a couple of pages back. It seems to me that if the oil pump gear failed it was either due to premature wear or spontaneous breakage.
The fact that is is claimed that it happended at idle (800 rpms) would lead me to believe that it was due to premature wear (unless the part was faulty). However, the claim is being made that they've seen this on multiple vehicles with both the lightened crank pulley and the raised redline.
Once the broken pieces are examined, tooth wear on the gear or rotor should be evident.
The next step is how did they get to the point where the lightened crank pulley is at fault? Is the implication that the failure was due to excess harmonics causing improper meshing of the oil pump gear resulting in wear over time?
If so how, did they arrive at this conclusion? How do you separate this from failure that may have occurred by running the car at higher than specified revs?
#311
02-16-2007, 02:40 PM
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Flitwick UK
Posts: 1,640
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#312
02-16-2007, 02:45 PM
okay... lets sum up the m7 m62 experiance... in a somewhat play by play and maybe those of you who ridicule me of spreading accusations, guessing and not believing m7 will understand where i am coming from after i put the picture together for you...
1. we are running into problems...
2. we will have dyno results tomorrow... days if not a week passed... no news...
3. M7 surfaces to say that they ran out of injector but will report back soon...
4. M7 discovers that the ecu is not as easy to tune as originally planned
5. DFIC on car (based off of testing... not the greatest intercooler out there... but that will be argued until the cows come home)
6. No word from M7 and results
7. i state that i think that they lost the motor
8. M7 absent from the boards for a while... even when "rumors" say that they lost the motor... (if it was your business you would extingish that quickly if it wasn't true)
9. "poop storm"
10. m7 admits they lost the motor... cause stated... broken oil pump gear.
11. i ask for pics of ringlands
12 M7 doesn't respond
now when i go back through those events... i would come to the conclusion that the oil pump gear did break... that can happen... but here is what i think is likely...
M7 car reportedly makes 224whp before m62. SpiderX results are not nearly what was anticipated. For this m62 project to be succesful and profitable for ddm/ m7 they must post good number on the 224whp car. High expectations and pressure has now set in on the project.
the car makes a few dyno pulls... makes less than what they thought it was going to...ie it loses power... which is perfectly normal until the tune is corrected and this is not in anyway criticism.
now a huge hill must be climbed... M7 must get more aggressive on the dyno...
M7 car runs out of fuel as noted on NAM *for those of you who don't know thats never good and can cause melted pistons/broken ringlands etc*
It is made known on NAM that they are having some difficulties tunning the ecu... again, understandable... but with high pressure and high hopes and lots of dyno abuse M7 searches for lost hp all the while strugling with A/F ratios. (which again is not criticism)
Car is on the dyno... making lots of pulls car runs lean... car runs hot due to high IATS (i look in the direction of the DFIC, contrary to popular belief... this is not the best design for an intercooler)
then catastrophe happens... ringlands colapse... on several pistons ( i can garuntee number 1 checked out as they always do in lean conditions)
car is on the dyno they shut the car down and let off... then the metal shaving make it into the oil... then the pump goes bad...
I could be wrong on that very last part... but who knows...
#313
02-16-2007, 02:51 PM
3rd Gear
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Our first hunch of the motor being lost was later proven true after a good deal of the community thought we were just stirring up the pot.
Now our second hunch is that there was failure to more than one piston, more specifically 3 if not all of them. That has not been confirmed by the M7 Camp and who knows when they will.
This isn't fishing, stirring the pot, or being out to get M7. Hell this is hardly a hunch... Lets just say the owner of the M62 car can't post. (He's not allowed). Therefore the TRUTH can not be told!
#314
02-16-2007, 03:07 PM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 3,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#315
02-16-2007, 03:28 PM
I think the focus is to have an open and informative discussion with true facts and without misrepresentation. I don't care who produces what. The Third Reich under charge of a psychopath is responsible for one of the all time great sellers (VW Bug) and the ultimate success of the Porsche, which we all love.
But, by the nature of the forum on which this is being presented (internet in general) any unsupported statements, flowery descriptions and cult like adoration will be challenged by people in order to get to the underlying truth, or value. It would be great to have another source of power for our cars. But to take the scientific community as an example, the source of the idea must be prepared to pass a peer review before the findings are considered legitimate.
This is my opinion only. Feel free to agree, or disagree with it.
But, by the nature of the forum on which this is being presented (internet in general) any unsupported statements, flowery descriptions and cult like adoration will be challenged by people in order to get to the underlying truth, or value. It would be great to have another source of power for our cars. But to take the scientific community as an example, the source of the idea must be prepared to pass a peer review before the findings are considered legitimate.
This is my opinion only. Feel free to agree, or disagree with it.
#316
02-16-2007, 03:34 PM
Former Vendor
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rotational speeds in metal parts greater than designed tolerances can cause metal fatigue stress fractures. Once these exists, failure will occur when force exceeds weakened limit during high rotation or force changes to pulse (idle) and the cracks propogate until the integrity of the part is diminished. Failure at idle does not require foreign object involvement, and as such failure of the piston rings is not a requirement.
This is as valid as any other theory from any other person who has posted here. I happen to know that mine is 100% plausible and fits well with the available data. Currently to say that more occured than has occured based on available data is merely wild speculation, and only as valid as a "hunch".
You should feel free to theorize, but not to pontificate.
This is as valid as any other theory from any other person who has posted here. I happen to know that mine is 100% plausible and fits well with the available data. Currently to say that more occured than has occured based on available data is merely wild speculation, and only as valid as a "hunch".
You should feel free to theorize, but not to pontificate.
Last edited by Peter@M7Tuning; 02-16-2007 at 03:39 PM.
#317
02-16-2007, 03:59 PM
Rotational speeds in metal parts greater than designed tolerances can cause metal fatigue stress fractures. Once these exists, failure will occur when force exceeds weakened limit during high rotation or force changes to pulse (idle) and the cracks propogate until the integrity of the part is diminished. Failure at idle does not require foreign object involvement, and as such failure of the piston rings is not a requirement.
This is as valid as any other theory from any other person who has posted here. I happen to know that mine is 100% plausible and fits well with the available data. Currently to say that more occured than has occured based on available data is merely wild speculation, and only as valid as a "hunch".
You should feel free to theorize, but not to pontificate.
This is as valid as any other theory from any other person who has posted here. I happen to know that mine is 100% plausible and fits well with the available data. Currently to say that more occured than has occured based on available data is merely wild speculation, and only as valid as a "hunch".
You should feel free to theorize, but not to pontificate.
also, thank you for not confirming nor denying what has happend... this gives the rest of us plenty of insight.
#318
02-16-2007, 04:11 PM
Motorsports, thanks for answering. I've got more questions (sorry about that).
To your first paragraph, this was posted earlier: [quote]
M7's person clearly states one piston, not the other 3. Can it be more clearly stated?
To your second paragraph, what are you implying? Have you seen the engine? Have you spoken to the owner? If the answer to either or both questions is yes, then quit tap dancing around the issue and state what you know/have seen clearly and concisely.
Now our second hunch is that there was failure to more than one piston, more specifically 3 if not all of them. That has not been confirmed by the M7 Camp and who knows when they will.
This isn't fishing, stirring the pot, or being out to get M7. Hell this is hardly a hunch... Lets just say the owner of the M62 car can't post. (He's not allowed). Therefore the TRUTH can not be told!
This isn't fishing, stirring the pot, or being out to get M7. Hell this is hardly a hunch... Lets just say the owner of the M62 car can't post. (He's not allowed). Therefore the TRUTH can not be told!
To your second paragraph, what are you implying? Have you seen the engine? Have you spoken to the owner? If the answer to either or both questions is yes, then quit tap dancing around the issue and state what you know/have seen clearly and concisely.
#319
02-16-2007, 04:28 PM
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
M7 car reportedly makes 224whp before m62. SpiderX results are not nearly what was anticipated. For this m62 project to be succesful and profitable for ddm/ m7 they must post good number on the 224whp car. High expectations and pressure has now set in on the project.
if you knew Dave at DDM this is almost laughable. Dave, while he wants to make money is not motivated by it. He gave up a very successful Chiropractic practice because he "digs" cars. Peter is not figuring the M62 kit into his sales projections for 2007..... if it happens, when it happens, it happens.
There is 3 cars running now , maybe 4 with no problems. The M7 car was going to be the "hairy monster" and it still may be. There is another car being worked on next week with additional mods that should put up some nice numbers as well.
This big A$$ SC on the front of the 1.6L is a bit more to tackle than anyone expected .... but I am happy with mine now (finally)that Dave has given it a very good tune. (I was very frustrated) The car is very smooth and strong. the tq curve is fun to play with and the 62 is a viable alternative.... it was not easy to implement but as you all know that is all coming together. Hell, the blown engine in LA is part of the R&D.
The fact that the engine took a dump in LA is really no big deal.... for whatever reason. the engine will get put back together, changes made, numbers posted and at some point there will be a commercially viable M62 kit for those that want it or not.
I think the arguement here is more about the marketing practices of M7 than the viability of the kit. Peter is passionate, proud of his products, works hard at coming up with new ideas and value. People have taken exception to claims. The 1.6L is a tough to get big incremental numbers out of (save turbo) and some of these components (intakes) are so close that the differences are withing the margin of error of most dynos. This can lead to people buying this or that component and expecting way too much. To a vendor, if you get 2-3 more whp than your competition that is huge but the end user can't feel it most times and there in lies the rub.
There are a few popular vendors that I could take to task.....but no point.
The 62 will be close to done in few weeks based on what I know.... While calling BS is fair and in play.... done wrong and you alienate creative people.
Are you really pissed with the 62..... I hope not
if you knew Dave at DDM this is almost laughable. Dave, while he wants to make money is not motivated by it. He gave up a very successful Chiropractic practice because he "digs" cars. Peter is not figuring the M62 kit into his sales projections for 2007..... if it happens, when it happens, it happens.
There is 3 cars running now , maybe 4 with no problems. The M7 car was going to be the "hairy monster" and it still may be. There is another car being worked on next week with additional mods that should put up some nice numbers as well.
This big A$$ SC on the front of the 1.6L is a bit more to tackle than anyone expected .... but I am happy with mine now (finally)that Dave has given it a very good tune. (I was very frustrated) The car is very smooth and strong. the tq curve is fun to play with and the 62 is a viable alternative.... it was not easy to implement but as you all know that is all coming together. Hell, the blown engine in LA is part of the R&D.
The fact that the engine took a dump in LA is really no big deal.... for whatever reason. the engine will get put back together, changes made, numbers posted and at some point there will be a commercially viable M62 kit for those that want it or not.
I think the arguement here is more about the marketing practices of M7 than the viability of the kit. Peter is passionate, proud of his products, works hard at coming up with new ideas and value. People have taken exception to claims. The 1.6L is a tough to get big incremental numbers out of (save turbo) and some of these components (intakes) are so close that the differences are withing the margin of error of most dynos. This can lead to people buying this or that component and expecting way too much. To a vendor, if you get 2-3 more whp than your competition that is huge but the end user can't feel it most times and there in lies the rub.
There are a few popular vendors that I could take to task.....but no point.
The 62 will be close to done in few weeks based on what I know.... While calling BS is fair and in play.... done wrong and you alienate creative people.
Are you really pissed with the 62..... I hope not
#320
02-16-2007, 04:40 PM
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Locked away
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have intermixed some of M7's & DDM's testing results as well as misrepresenting some of the "facts".
This was reported by Bob. Bob's car has been worked on by DDM in SC.
I'm not really sure why you bother mentioning this, since it was never mentioned as a "problem" except by you right here.
This is more based on your supposition and Bob's expectations than the developers. Dave has always been clear that he expected differing results on different cars, thus the multiple levels of mod/tune in the beta cars.
This is, at best, a poorly summarized version of events as I understand it (IMO).
Again, not a fair summarization as I understand it. Your version clearly suggests (IMO) some fault on the part of the tuners. It's far more fair to stick to what DID happen as stated by M7, rather than to speculate by saying what it "can cause".
Complete and unflattering speculation. Where was this version of events stated by those present for the tuning?
Again, not exactly what M7 has stated publicly.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=213
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=220
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=224
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=228
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=233
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=235
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=238
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=316
the parts that need to be examined are the piston rings...
okay... lets sum up the m7 m62 experiance... in a somewhat play by play and maybe those of you who ridicule me of spreading accusations, guessing and not believing m7 will understand where i am coming from after i put the picture together for you...
1. we are running into problems...
2. we will have dyno results tomorrow... days if not a week passed... no news...
3. M7 surfaces to say that they ran out of injector but will report back soon...
okay... lets sum up the m7 m62 experiance... in a somewhat play by play and maybe those of you who ridicule me of spreading accusations, guessing and not believing m7 will understand where i am coming from after i put the picture together for you...
1. we are running into problems...
2. we will have dyno results tomorrow... days if not a week passed... no news...
3. M7 surfaces to say that they ran out of injector but will report back soon...
4. M7 discovers that the ecu is not as easy to tune as originally planned
5. DFIC on car (based off of testing... not the greatest intercooler out there... but that will be argued until the cows come home)
6. No word from M7 and results
7. i state that i think that they lost the motor
8. M7 absent from the boards for a while... even when "rumors" say that they lost the motor... (if it was your business you would extingish that quickly if it wasn't true)
9. "poop storm"
10. m7 admits they lost the motor... cause stated... broken oil pump gear.
11. i ask for pics of ringlands
12 M7 doesn't respond
now when i go back through those events... i would come to the conclusion that the oil pump gear did break... that can happen... but here is what i think is likely...
7. i state that i think that they lost the motor
8. M7 absent from the boards for a while... even when "rumors" say that they lost the motor... (if it was your business you would extingish that quickly if it wasn't true)
9. "poop storm"
10. m7 admits they lost the motor... cause stated... broken oil pump gear.
11. i ask for pics of ringlands
12 M7 doesn't respond
now when i go back through those events... i would come to the conclusion that the oil pump gear did break... that can happen... but here is what i think is likely...
M7 car reportedly makes 224whp before m62. SpiderX results are not nearly what was anticipated. For this m62 project to be succesful and profitable for ddm/ m7 they must post good number on the 224whp car. High expectations and pressure has now set in on the project.
the car makes a few dyno pulls... makes less than what they thought it was going to...ie it loses power... which is perfectly normal until the tune is corrected and this is not in anyway criticism.
now a huge hill must be climbed... M7 must get more aggressive on the dyno...
now a huge hill must be climbed... M7 must get more aggressive on the dyno...
M7 car runs out of fuel as noted on NAM *for those of you who don't know thats never good and can cause melted pistons/broken ringlands etc*
It is made known on NAM that they are having some difficulties tunning the ecu... again, understandable... but with high pressure and high hopes and lots of dyno abuse M7 searches for lost hp all the while strugling with A/F ratios. (which again is not criticism)
It is made known on NAM that they are having some difficulties tunning the ecu... again, understandable... but with high pressure and high hopes and lots of dyno abuse M7 searches for lost hp all the while strugling with A/F ratios. (which again is not criticism)
Car is on the dyno... making lots of pulls car runs lean... car runs hot due to high IATS (i look in the direction of the DFIC, contrary to popular belief... this is not the best design for an intercooler)
then catastrophe happens... ringlands colapse... on several pistons ( i can garuntee number 1 checked out as they always do in lean conditions)
then catastrophe happens... ringlands colapse... on several pistons ( i can garuntee number 1 checked out as they always do in lean conditions)
car is on the dyno they shut the car down and let off... then the metal shaving make it into the oil... then the pump goes bad...
I could be wrong on that very last part... but who knows...
I could be wrong on that very last part... but who knows...
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=213
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=220
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=224
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=228
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=233
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=235
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=238
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=316
#321
02-16-2007, 04:53 PM
M7 car reportedly makes 224whp before m62. SpiderX results are not nearly what was anticipated. For this m62 project to be succesful and profitable for ddm/ m7 they must post good number on the 224whp car. High expectations and pressure has now set in on the project.
if you knew Dave at DDM this is almost laughable. Dave, while he wants to make money is not motivated by it. He gave up a very successful Chiropractic practice because he "digs" cars. Peter is not figuring the M62 kit into his sales projections for 2007..... if it happens, when it happens, it happens.
There is 3 cars running now , maybe 4 with no problems. The M7 car was going to be the "hairy monster" and it still may be. There is another car being worked on next week with additional mods that should put up some nice numbers as well.
This big A$$ SC on the front of the 1.6L is a bit more to tackle than anyone expected .... but I am happy with mine now (finally)that Dave has given it a very good tune. (I was very frustrated) The car is very smooth and strong. the tq curve is fun to play with and the 62 is a viable alternative.... it was not easy to implement but as you all know that is all coming together. Hell, the blown engine in LA is part of the R&D.
The fact that the engine took a dump in LA is really no big deal.... for whatever reason. the engine will get put back together, changes made, numbers posted and at some point there will be a commercially viable M62 kit for those that want it or not.
I think the arguement here is more about the marketing practices of M7 than the viability of the kit. Peter is passionate, proud of his products, works hard at coming up with new ideas and value. People have taken exception to claims. The 1.6L is a tough to get big incremental numbers out of (save turbo) and some of these components (intakes) are so close that the differences are withing the margin of error of most dynos. This can lead to people buying this or that component and expecting way too much. To a vendor, if you get 2-3 more whp than your competition that is huge but the end user can't feel it most times and there in lies the rub.
There are a few popular vendors that I could take to task.....but no point.
The 62 will be close to done in few weeks based on what I know.... While calling BS is fair and in play.... done wrong and you alienate creative people.
Are you really pissed with the 62..... I hope not
if you knew Dave at DDM this is almost laughable. Dave, while he wants to make money is not motivated by it. He gave up a very successful Chiropractic practice because he "digs" cars. Peter is not figuring the M62 kit into his sales projections for 2007..... if it happens, when it happens, it happens.
There is 3 cars running now , maybe 4 with no problems. The M7 car was going to be the "hairy monster" and it still may be. There is another car being worked on next week with additional mods that should put up some nice numbers as well.
This big A$$ SC on the front of the 1.6L is a bit more to tackle than anyone expected .... but I am happy with mine now (finally)that Dave has given it a very good tune. (I was very frustrated) The car is very smooth and strong. the tq curve is fun to play with and the 62 is a viable alternative.... it was not easy to implement but as you all know that is all coming together. Hell, the blown engine in LA is part of the R&D.
The fact that the engine took a dump in LA is really no big deal.... for whatever reason. the engine will get put back together, changes made, numbers posted and at some point there will be a commercially viable M62 kit for those that want it or not.
I think the arguement here is more about the marketing practices of M7 than the viability of the kit. Peter is passionate, proud of his products, works hard at coming up with new ideas and value. People have taken exception to claims. The 1.6L is a tough to get big incremental numbers out of (save turbo) and some of these components (intakes) are so close that the differences are withing the margin of error of most dynos. This can lead to people buying this or that component and expecting way too much. To a vendor, if you get 2-3 more whp than your competition that is huge but the end user can't feel it most times and there in lies the rub.
There are a few popular vendors that I could take to task.....but no point.
The 62 will be close to done in few weeks based on what I know.... While calling BS is fair and in play.... done wrong and you alienate creative people.
Are you really pissed with the 62..... I hope not
I have ZERO interest in seeing the m62 fail. If you look back at my posts and motorsports3 posts several time we post "good lucks" and "hope you make great power" etc... I have really been intereted in this project from the start! i really want to see this product succeed. I am a fan of the supercharged application... just check out my sig... I have pretty much pushed the m45 to the max... i don't want to go the turbo route for a daily driver...
so all in all my motive is not to torpedo the M62 like some might think...
#322
02-16-2007, 05:05 PM
You have intermixed some of M7's & DDM's testing results as well as misrepresenting some of the "facts".
This was reported by Bob. Bob's car has been worked on by DDM in SC.
I'm not really sure why you bother mentioning this, since it was never mentioned as a "problem" except by you right here.
This is more based on your supposition and Bob's expectations than the developers. Dave has always been clear that he expected differing results on different cars, thus the multiple levels of mod/tune in the beta cars.
This is, at best, a poorly summarized version of events as I understand it (IMO).
Again, not a fair summarization as I understand it. Your version clearly suggests (IMO) some fault on the part of the tuners. It's far more fair to stick to what DID happen as stated by M7, rather than to speculate by saying what it "can cause".
Complete and unflattering speculation. Where was this version of events stated by those present for the tuning?
Again, not exactly what M7 has stated publicly.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=213
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=220
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=224
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=228
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=233
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=235
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=238
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=316
This was reported by Bob. Bob's car has been worked on by DDM in SC.
I'm not really sure why you bother mentioning this, since it was never mentioned as a "problem" except by you right here.
This is more based on your supposition and Bob's expectations than the developers. Dave has always been clear that he expected differing results on different cars, thus the multiple levels of mod/tune in the beta cars.
This is, at best, a poorly summarized version of events as I understand it (IMO).
Again, not a fair summarization as I understand it. Your version clearly suggests (IMO) some fault on the part of the tuners. It's far more fair to stick to what DID happen as stated by M7, rather than to speculate by saying what it "can cause".
Complete and unflattering speculation. Where was this version of events stated by those present for the tuning?
Again, not exactly what M7 has stated publicly.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=213
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=220
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=224
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=228
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=233
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=235
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=238
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=316
all that talk... still no denial of what i said... thats pretty funny... well i guess we should just wait for the piston pictures.
Remember... the tunning world especially the MINI tunning world is small... and word travels quickly...
its funny how many people have been PMing me in total agrement of what has happened and how it makes total sense. Ohh well...
#323
02-16-2007, 05:18 PM
Former Vendor
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Being 3000 miles away, I cannot confirm nor deny. I can, however, give you a relevant case which does not require wild speculation and fits with the known data.
#324
02-16-2007, 05:21 PM
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Locked away
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
all that talk... still no denial of what i said... thats pretty funny... well i guess we should just wait for the piston pictures.
Remember... the tunning world especially the MINI tunning world is small... and word travels quickly...
its funny how many people have been PMing me in total agrement of what has happened and how it makes total sense. Ohh well...
Remember... the tunning world especially the MINI tunning world is small... and word travels quickly...
its funny how many people have been PMing me in total agrement of what has happened and how it makes total sense. Ohh well...
#325
02-16-2007, 05:32 PM
Theorize all you want. Do not pontificate. You do not know, please stop trying to convince everyone that you do. It's bad form.
Being 3000 miles away, I cannot confirm nor deny. I can, however, give you a relevant case which does not require wild speculation and fits with the known data.
Being 3000 miles away, I cannot confirm nor deny. I can, however, give you a relevant case which does not require wild speculation and fits with the known data.