When your new blower is installed and running, I don't think the M62 will be as interesting anymore .

To all those willing to spend 5k to push 22 lbs of boost and make 215 whp just so you can pass smog, I think you'll find that half the smog stations don't even perform a visual. Especially if you tip them well.

 

I'm glad you like your new head and I think Jan is a wizard, but I don't get why you feel the need to badmouth something you don't appear to know much about. No final pricing has been announced and my M62 car is not pushing anything close to 22lbs of boost. The M62 is not about higher boost, it's about greater volume. If it's not your cup of tea, then cool.

 

It's a high displacement blower driven by a low displacement motor. The blower manufacturer themselves say it's best utilized on 2.0+ applications. I've seen people post multiple times what boost pressures the M62 kit is pushing. I never quoted any final pricing, just the pricing that was quoted to me when I spoke to M7, and I specifically noted that it was a "Ballpark" figure.

There's not much to know about it. Regardless of whether you're boosting 20, 21, or 22 PSI, the numbers the M62 cars are getting are barely any better than the M45 cars with the El D head. I'm boosting between 12 and 14 PSI depending on weather and how my car's feeling :-\.

The M62 is just too big. You're boosting just to turn the damn blower over .

 

And to me that pretty much sums up what hot rodding is all about. Doing things the manufacturer never intended in order to make more power. Pretty much what Jan is doing. Didn't people say that a Tritec stroker was impossible?

None of the DDM cars has been pushing that kind of boost AFAIK. If the M7 car pushed that much it was by accident. Dave was unaware the car had a crank pulley when he decided on the SC pulley size for the kit he sent them. As far as M7 quoting a 5k price, how about at least waiting to see the final pricing before you bag on it. Besides, if you've decided not to spend your money on it, how is it any skin off your back?

Like I said before, my car has not been anywhere near that boost level. The advantage to the M62 is that it does not have to work near its limits to achieve the same performance as an M45.

And if Jan and other tuners had listened to opinions like yours we'd all be driving unmodded cars. Quit hating and go enjoy your car.

 

My car is pushing 21 lb and the only reason is that .........I do not have the time right now to get the bigger pulley installed to slow it down and lower the pressure...which we all think will be a good thing..... you are jumping to a conclusion based on my beta car which is not the finished product..... I simply think my car is running very good and am in no hurry to wring the last 10-15-20 whp out if it...... eventually I will.

While i am sure that Jan's head is very good, maybe the best available right now...I don't know...the OEM and technology are known....personally I think it is a good thing but this 62 vs Jan's head thing is rediculous.

I wanted a proof positive before I consider adding the head to my 62 car..... that has been taken to be some kind of duel between 62s and Jan's head. NO.....NO....NO my idea was to ADD jan's head to my 62 car for some real fun..... I have been burned by false claims and have received PMs +/- the claims on this thread...... who is right ... I don't know.... there will be a dyno at the Dragon and Jan will be there tuning..... seems easy enough...

remember, i am not a vendor just a guy with a car.....

 

The Mazda example on the previous page reveals that the engine need not be a 2.0 or larger (those are 1.8's). After years of tuning though, a way was found to make it work in such a way to produce an extra 60-70% more power.

If we were so fortunate to have the M62 make such an impact on the MINI, we'd be seeing around 275 bhp, which is right around the holy grail for many - 250 whp...

We of course have a 1.6, and with even less displacement than the Miata engine that was M62'd, additional challenges seem to exist. As I understand it, Miata previously ran with a 1.6, yet this engine was not M62'd (kit offered), I believe; and maybe for good reason...

The M62 MINI is not years into development, but months. It's hard to say at this point what will be needed to make this a viable option for us, besides more time. Poo poo'ing the effort at this stage is not what is needed... If more displacement it needed, why not stroking it to a 1.8? Sure, additonal cost, but that might be the ticket to recognizing the power that is sought...

While I know that I would not run with a TC'd MINI or turbo swap in CA, I encouraged their development and offered kudos for achievements, for a multitude of reasons, one being more options for the Community, which I find important...

 

I'm not knocking anyone's mods, just pointing out that at this stage in development, the boost required to even come close to 230 whp is ridiculous. Spider and many others have said that they're having issues with parasitic drag. The M62 is a big blower, you can't just slam the biggest blower they make on the car and expect it to make more power.

Everything Jan has done thus far makes SENSE. That's the difference. When people said a stroker was impossible, he did it differently, when everyone said a new blower was impossible, he did it differently. Tuning isn't always about bigger is better, more often than not it's about thinking outside the box. While I applaude DDM's efforts and i'm sure they thought it would be as easy as slapping a bigger blower on with some larger injectors and calling it a day, it's more complicated than that. You're taking a gigantic blower and making a tiny engine turn it over.

You can't take a turbo off a school bus and throw it on the MINI and expect "Woo hoo 1200 HP!". It wouldn't even spin . It's obvious that at the IAT's he's seeing, the issue isn't heat, it's drag. If it takes 21 PSI of boost to make 215 HP with an M62, something that we can do all day long on 13-14 PSI of boost with the M45, something about the M62 is making it have to work harder for the same power output.

I was interested in this project from the start, I called Peter up before I even BOUGHT my car and asked about the kit, and it's availability (Mind you this was in August of 2006). As I followed it it became quickly appearent that there were going to be massive delays, and that the kit wasn't all it was talked up to be.

Spider is a well respected member of the forums and i've never had anything negative to say about him. I don't want this to turn into a pissing match of "My mod is better than yours". If I DIDN'T have Jan's head i'd still feel the same way. I've always been a realist, when I look at something and it doesn't look like it's going to work, I don't fluff it up.

That being said, if you have the money, buy it all. It's your car, you can mod it however you want

 

 

Spider has been quite lately, maybe he's enjoying his Mini.

 

Good morning,

My car has a new head and is on it's way for tuning and some "upgrades" to the 62 kit. DDM is a good fabricator but is not a self promoter..... If Dave spent as much time on the boards as other vendors the 62 would be much more popular..... The 62 is on the Exige and on the SS Cobalt and, of course, on the Mini. the guys that have them like them.... DDM has just not promoted it much.

Meanwhile, my car keeps running strong.... I have about 20K mi. on the kit with no problems.....and lots of power and torque. Now that Jan's head is on the car and the 62 can take advantage of the larger valves we should see the true capability of the 62 on a Mini.

Others that were contemplating developing a kit apparently decided not to....it is a lot of work.....

The Rotrax SC from Jan holds a lot of promise but it has not been done yet and who knows what the reality will be.... we were hoping for 300 from the 62......I would keep and eye on this as in theory it is a bit of the holy grail.... there are some questions as to its max performance ... but I would like to try it.....

anyway, me and the car are doing fine......thanks

I did see a really nice red R56 the other day and was thinking of selling for the 56 but the feeling went away after I laid down for a while

 

Good luck with the tuning, sounds like it will be a torque monster when you've finished.

I wonder what the salesman would say if you went to part x the Mini lol

 

The amount of $ in this Mini is pretty rediculous.... I still think of MSFITOY as the coolest of all the Minis.... Sid has remarkable taste and execution.....

 

So true.

Glad to hear the car is running strong. How are the other ones doing? Was there ever any final word on why the M7 one went POP!

 

The M7 car had some issues that I am am told were unrelated and the car is basically sitting.....

The other cars are running strong with happy owners....so far as I know

 

 

DDM has a 56..... I think the new car is.... as it should... getting the attention. When the kit did not turn a stock car into 250 whp people got turned off (my opinion) if you look at the power jup of the Cobalt SS ... I think it is only about 25 bhp..... which is less than we achieved.... I have to take responsibility for unreal expectations.... the kit is performing well..... and is a kick to drive.... the new head had not been tuned but that should happen next week.....

I really like the 56 and am very impressed when I see them on the road.... with 200 ft lb stock.... and a new level of sophistication... it is hard to ignore.... since the 56 uses a turbo... the SC option looks to be yesterdays news for the Mini... again, not for the Cobalt SS

 

I still agree with Dr. Fuh on the 56 though. With the rubo that is on it, and what it is putting out MINI has tuned this car closer to its absolute potential than they did with the 53. What I mean is if you figure they only achieved 40% of what the tritec engine was capable of from the factory, they have tuned the Peugeot unit to more like 75% of total capability. IF you are able to fit a larger turbo in the 56, a question I have som edoubts about, you may be able to get big gains, but the K03 is going to severly limit potential whp regardless of bolt-ons or ECU tuning. This is a well known issue with the Borg's in the VW world. You really need to go to a GT series turbo or at least a T3/T4 to get big numbers like people are getting out of the 53 with turbo conversions. But will these turbos/manifolds/3" DP fit in the engine bay of the 56??????

 

It's statements like this that will get you banned from NAM .

Once you get your car tuned go to the dyno and I will bet you dinner in Nassau that your car makes 250hp.

 

Hey Bart, If I tuned it it would make 300whp.

 

if you gaurantee that I'll be up next month

 

Bob, you should know by now, nothing is guaranteed, but I bet John could definitely find some gains in your setup.

I'll be down there to see him soon.

 

Bob, I just got almost 200lbft and 250whp out of a stock supercharger and stopped trying because that's all that it had. With what I've seen from the M62 , if I were to build the same car as the one I just did but replace the blower with a M62, I'm certain that I could tune it to 300. More importantly, the torque would be way up, almost to where my turbo car is. Like I've been saying, the power of O.E. tuning.

 

spider, u should visit john and see...
i dont mind seeing a m62 hitting 300whp.

 

I'm game....who is going to pay the bill?

 

How to respond ......lets see ........ well, this sums it nicely

[quote=sprp85;1573837]spider, u should visit john and see... [\quote]

How to: Drive to Orlando, take auto train to DC and then drive to LDG. Take your lady friend for there is nothing like a over night train ride .

On another note - now after having spent how much on your car your seeking guarantees . Will it be magical 300 hp number ? Don't know but what I do know is that John will get you the most that can be had out of that car.

For the good of the M62 project, you must go and let John force as much HP/TQ upon you as humanly possible.

This would conclude the M62 project and only after this can we fairly judge the M62 project.