What ever happened to Ryan aka Major Mini, his car was the first 62 car, right? Haven't heard anything from him.

 

I really don't know about the header. My 03 JCW with about all the things you have on your car except a modded head put down 201 in real cool weather @ Yarrows and 198 in the summer @ Wheel Power in Detroit with Chad from Detroit Tuned. I know we both had the same header before your change also I believe Sid had the same one. Tune to your Unichip may have been part of the problem or as you said the head.

 

Thanks for the numbers. About time someone posted something besides conjecture.

 

Bob:

Did you dyno the car before and after the WMS head? I had similar power mods (including the milltek and the WMS head) and consistently dyno'd at 211 - 215 depending on the weather.

My before and after of the WMS head was 19 whp and 16 lb/ft torque.

Thanks in advance.

 

Looks like 20 whp and 33 lb/ft. Or am I missing/misinterpreting something?

200 to 220 hp
157 to 190 tq

 

You're doing the straight difference for the car before and after.

My take is MINIotaple is taking into account that the "before" number wasn't with a stock M45 (i.e. it had a reduction pulley) so he's adding to the numbers you've calculated take that into account.

 

You're right Dave, I am.

I would perceive that interest in this product will come mainly from people who have modded their cars to a fair degree and are looking at the increase over their current setup. Hence, Bob's gain over his last configuration is 20/33.

Since Bob did not have a stock head, intake, cam, header, ECU, catback, runners, etc. on his car we really have no idea what the kit adds over a stock m45.

It will be interesting to find out if Bob's numerous mods maybe increased the final numbers. Who's to say that without the intake, header, head, exhaust, etc. the total output of the kit is adversely affected (or more accurately does not reach it's full potential)?

 

Yeah, I'd agree that generally people considering this would have done quite a bit. I'm just clarifying what I think is the difference in the two sets of numbers being compared.

 

regarding the head...... when we first put it on we did get some improvement but not near what I would have expected...... basically I have been chasing power ever since...... I think back, my first mods were standard, cat-back, pulley, intake, etc all really made a difference.... when I put on the head not so much.... that was the first time the Unichip did not feel tuned.... at that time there was no one tunning them, you sent it back to Randy for his best guess, knowing what I know now that was rediculous at best..... i have had three -four talented guys tune my car on dynos and on the road and that is still an art that is tough to get right....

the 62 is something I have been talking about for about a year before the prototype..... i was very excited when Dave told me he was going to do it and I offered my car..... when it went on it definately gave my car a big kick.... that tq number is not insignificant... makes the car feel like a 6....

ran into header problems and tried several uintil we settled on the custom "tri-y" this has helped a bunch.... now the tune is off and we are between injectors..... there is far more to this that I would have ever imagined and Dave with his experience, is learning as well..... M7 has a car and the initial response was "Holy *****" but getting the tune done to max the power is tricky.... Motec would solve the problem but create others and the $ gets very stupid

So all you who are critical... I think that as a group we are a bit embarrassed that his has not come as easily or as smoothly as we would have liked.... I thought I would have had 250whp easy.... wrong.....

I will post what we get at the dyno next time we go..... for sure before it is offered as a product at large there will be specific dynos with different setups and a range of power you can expect..... did I mention that I am not financially involved... i just dig the car.....

The original car was the guys girlfriends and she did not want it...that is my understanding.....

a dragster my car is not but as a car that you drive everyday and take to the mountains it is a hoot to drive.....much stonger than it was before...the whp number is a small part of that story it is all aboput the added tq....

 

Very well done as usual Bob..... Thanks for the info and your feelings about this project.

 

Too many independent tests done by owners of the WMS head to point fingers there - and you yourself raved about it before Bob.

Thanks,
Randy

Good luck with the kit - sounds like a fun project

 

Stop hijacking other Vendor's threads, Cupcake. We all know every one of those tests were anomalies.

 

Hey dont call my boyfriend a cupcake.... i'm getting jealous.

 

Ok, just show us the TQ.

 

Hence my request for the numbers on the stock car. I recall it being posted somewhere.

I guess the real problem with figuring the marginal hp/torque that was produced is it's very inaccurate. For instance, let's say the M62 produces 40hp on a stock car and a pulley produces 15 hp. if I took a pullied car and put an M62 on it, it would only produce 25 hp while on a stock car, it would produce 40hp. The amount of hp an M62 would always be changing depending on the mods a person had and nobody would ever be able to compare anything. This also confuses the $ / hp calc. However, I do agree with you that when people evaluate modding, it should be done on a personal $ / hp basis though.

Really, adding the M62 is like 4 steps forward and 1.5 steps back.

 

good questions.... I need an statistician to keep track....

 

but not nessisarily important. When I bought my first motorcycle, I bought a Honda specifically because it had a wider power band than the Yamaha and Sazuki models in the same catagory. But about 10% less peak HP.

It's area under the curve that matters, and it's even more than that. It's the area under the curve between the shift points that really matters. And this number is never quoted as it depends on tons of stuff.

If a mod helps tons on a stocker but not as much on a more wild build, I'd start looking for another bottleneck, or hitting a fundimental limit requiring higher octane to push things further.

But your criticism of dyno number are real, and that is why many don't really care what the number is, just what the delta is (in percent, if you think about it) and use the HP numbers as a "guide to the eye".

Matt

 

Looks like this thread is about done.... EDIT: After my morning coffee.... Sorry. Anything NEW!

 

Dave has put in at least 12-14 hrs tuning SpiderX..... he is giveing it back to me today..... Dave is new to Unichip tuning and is working his way through the learning curve....Josh Murray, a great guy..... has been giving Dave some help/pointers/instruction...... Davee has decided that the ecu "is not as smart as I thought it was"...... He is not all the way done but I promised a "date" that I would take her for a ride in the mts on Sat and my "love life" comes first.... there are several refinements that I want to incorporate and Dave will have the car again soon (Waylan is coming to town)..... I have not heard from Peter but they are working the same types of things from the "left coast"..... at this point it is about "fine tuning"......

btw 12-14 hrs if you are paying tuners rates is a lot .... there have been several different options tried and each one takes time to evaluate..... it is far from "bolt on and go"

 

thanks bob.

some of us have been content to read what is posted and wait patiently.

 

Ditto

 

I appreciate that..... I like to hear about people whose R56s are on the boat..... I am trying to refine my style to be more informative rather than to be perceived as "hype".....

 

I appreciate that..... I like to hear about people whose R56s are on the boat..... I am trying to refine my style to be more informative rather than to be perceived as "hype".....

 

Don't let the naysayers change your behavior, Bob. Since when did enthusiasm become off-limits? Not everybody dislikes following the fits and starts of a development project and nobody is forcing anybody to read this or any other thread. M7 & DDM are both only a phone call away if you want to hear details.

 

^ Exactly. I know the ignore button is around here somewhere. People just need to learn to use it.