Huh? The car has a bypass valve as factory equipment. Why do you want to add a blow-off valve?

As has been mentioned several times (see my dyno results, too), the dip in the low-end torque is from a drop in BOOST. It's not related to timing.

It looks to me like this ECU is pretty sophisticated. It's unlikely a standalone is going to have more resolution than the ECU itself.

Why? Assuming this ECU is like other current-generation systems, it has better and more complete knock-sensing logic than any standalone system has. With a good ECU programming solution, timing and fuel can be controlled inside the stock ECU code. Of course, I haven't yet SEEN a good/useable ECU programming suite for the R56, but we'll get there.

--Dan
Mach V
FastMINI.net

 

t

 

I'd pesonally be wary of a generic knock sensor, especially one designed for port injection engines of who-knows-what cylinder count. The R56 MCS's engine being direct injection really changes the whole tuning game. AFR targets are different, timing targets are different. I'm not saying it's impossible, but Dan is right, the DI-Motronic is state-of-the-art in most instances. It's also annoying that there are currently no ways to tune it. Companies like Revolution MINI Works, Mynes Performance, and Lucky Dog Garage have the means to write R53 ECU flashes with excellent sophistication, however being the R56 is totally different caps their current ability for R56 owners, unfortunately.

Piggy-backs may be useful in the meantime, but without an ECU pinout, and several layers of sensors being implimented, cleanly using piggy-backs to do what we're really trying to do may be prohibitivly difficult.

As for the big question related to this thread "Why is the ECU changing boost?", that is still alive and being determined.

That's my take,
Ryan

 

First off, SCHWEET setup! I hope you wont mind me nosing around your car at MOTD.

As for the boost reduction, could it be from a resonance during low rpms? Or perhaps something centered around the VVT programming and markedly reduced backpressure? There is no timing pull going on, is there? Since I have yet to learn much of anything regarding specific operation of the newDI FI system and all the new hardware, I guess I am just talking outta my exhaust pipe for now.

 

I am curious if the guys at Vishnu Performance can help us out on this. They developed a "black box" for the 335i TT. It seems that in essence we have the same engine but 4cyl and 1 turbo. THey are laying down a 75whp improvement and 80lb ft of torque to the ground. If you dig around on bimmerforums and read what they figured out about the ECU it is quite interesting.


The ECU has 16 channels and they decided to only use 4 so the others can be modded to include gear specific boost levels. launch control, etc. pretty sweet. The box modifies the variables past the ECU so the car thinks it is running stock levels. $1365 for 100hp and 100lb ft sign me up if it picked up the MINI 50HP would be killer

 

--->Greatbear: I hope to see you next weekend! Of course you can stop by and check out the new MINI! As for your suggestions, the resonance theory may be the strongest yet, right there with the question of how the variable intake timing is controlled. No, the timing curve is very similar from stock to post-exhaust, as is the AFR curve, so those two seem to not be in-play with this situation.

--->RR56: Oooh an XEDE application for the R56? That would be very nice. Vishnu probably does have a leg up on most being that they've sunk their teeth into the very similar 335i. Both the 335i and the R56 MCS use 10.5:1 static compression ratios with tiny turbos and Bosch DI systems. The few differeneces are stock boost levels, and of course cylinder count and displacement. Oh yea, the 335i also uses "2nd gen" injectors that are in the center of the combustion chamber instead of offset like the MINI's "1st gen" positioning.

Should I call Vishnu, or can someone local with an R56 contact them and be willing to let their car be the guinea pig? I'd do it if I was in Cali!

 

Did you log MAF values during the dyno runs by any chance?

-JL

 

Yup I did. They show corresponding values when using 11% drivetrain loss correction and after calculating a BSFC of 0.51. Nothing strange there, IMO.

 

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here. There is only one internal wastegate on a R56 and it expels excessive pressure into the same downpipe as the rest of the exhaust gases.

It is interesting that you mention that you prefer to vent a bypass valve to atmosphere rather than to recirculate it back into the intake, on the basis that it will lower air intake temps. In most applications the type of air metering device used on the engine will determine whether or not the air has to be recirculated.

On what application did you see a "significant intake temp drop with a vent into atmosphere"?

 

It seems to me eagletangogreen has some experience in modern hot rodding. That said, with this new direct injection era, just about all the rules have changed, so it'll be a whole new learning curve.

 

I have been modifying cars for years as well.

However his comments are perplexing:
He begins by talking about internal wastegates, then goes on to mention that he's seen a drop in intake temps with a vent to atmosphere system.

The excessive pressure that is relieved by a wastegate is NEVER routed back into the intake tract. It is either vented to atmosphere or routed back into the exhaust.

I don't think anyone with a background in cars could possibly make the mistake of confusing a blowoff/bypass/diverter valve with an internal wastegate. That being the case, I'm stumped by what he's trying to say.

 

I'm just giving him the benefit of a doubt here. Give him a chance to explain his perspective or correct his mis-typings.

 

Hello Mini cooper owners. First off I would like to apologize for some of the mis information one of our staff members has given. I tune VQ35 350Z's, I had one of our staff members use my user name to research the new mini turbo cooper S. I was not aware he was giving his two cent about it. I agree with Mr Wata is right about the wastegate, it is eaither Vented out or routed back into the exhuast. Here a quick breakdown to those member who are new to this turbo thing.

Acompressor bypass vavle also known as a compressor relief valve is a vacuum-actuated valve designed to release pressure in the intake system of a turbocharged or centrifugally supercharged car when the throttle is lifted or closed. This air pressure is re-circulated back into the non-pressurized end of the intake (before the turbo) but after themass airflow sensor.
A blow off valve does basically the same thing, but releases the air to the atmosphere. This creates a very distinctive sound desired by many who own turbocharged sports cars. Some blowoff valves are sold with shaped exits thatmake the "Psshhhh" sound, these designs are normally marketed towards the tuner crowd. For some owners this is the only reason to fit a BOV

Downsides of releasing air to atmosphere
The unique sound caused by a blowoff valve (but not a compressor bypass valve) sometimes comes at a price. On a car with amass airflow senor, doing this confuses the (ECU) of the car. The ECU is told it has a specific amount of air in the intake system, and injects fuel accordingly. The amount of air released by the blowoff valve is not taken into consideration and the engine runs rich for a period of time. Engines with a manifold absolute pressure regulated ECU are not affected.
Typically this isn't a major issue, but sometimes it can lead to hesitation or stalling of the engine when the throttle is closed. This situation worsens with higher boost pressures. Eventually this can foul spark plugs and destroy the CATs (when running rich, not all the fuel is burned which can heat up on and melt the converter).

How it works!
A blow-off-valve is connected by a vacuum hose to the intake manifold after the throttle plate. When the throttle is closed,underpressue develops in the intake manifold after the throttle plate and "sucks" the blowoff valve open. The excess pressure from the turbocharger is vented into the atmosphere or recirculated into the intake upstream of the compressor inlet.

A wastegate is a valve that diverts exhuast gases away from the turbine wheel in a turbocharged engine system. Diversion of exhaust gases causes the turbine to lose speed, which in turn reduces the rotating speed of the compressor. The primary function of the wastegate is to stabilizeboost compressor pressure in turbocharger systems, to protect the engine and the turbocharger. The wastegate is controlled by a wastegate actuator.

I will add more info on the internal wastegate, but I have to run now. From now on I will be the only one that will post using this user name. Once again sorry for the confusing posts. Bye the way I dont use smiley faces. Mr Wata good job sounding off and watching out on info being put out.

 

Ryephile I sent an email to Shiv because we are ordering a few PROcede units for customers cars but have not heard a response.

 

I also sent an email to Vishnu last night asking about the viability of adapting their PROcede product for the BMW 335i into an R56 MCS product. No reply yet, but it's only been one business day.

 

great idea. i'm sure there's going to be a lot in commom, but bmw codes are notoriously hard to crack. perhaps the prsumably potential higher numbers of cooper s'es ( vs the 335i) will sway him. it there's a way - i'll help pass the word down here in Singapore

 

Nice job Rye....looks great

It's interesting to have a Mini engine that would rather give tq than hp......

Looking forward to seeing you next week......

keep on "rocking"

 

Thanks Bob! Yes the R56 engine, being turbo, loves to dish out the low-end torque. Quite the change from the 'blown R53's! I hope your lil' monster is still running awesome. See you soon.

 

Got a little info back from Vishnu. They tell me that an R56 PROcede is actually their next project! Should really make the ALTA parts come alive!

 

No freaking kidding! That's some of the best news I've heard in a while. They didn't mention any dates did they?

 

just said it was their next project. Took them quite a while on 335i as I think they had a car very early. Probably 6-7 months I would guess

 

Hi Guys,
Thanks for your interest. For what it's worth, we've already started our R56 PROcede development. Given that the Mini and he 335i share a lot in common, I don't think it would take very long to have a PROcede application ready for you guys. Give us a 2-3 weeks and we should have some initial results for you. A few weeks ago, Dustin@Vishnu and I "borrowed" a Mini from our local dealership for day to conduct all the necessary sensor testing and waveform logs. Everything looks reasonably conventional. Most of the work we've done with the 335i should apply directly. We'll be purchasing our Mini this week if all goes well. We're very excited about the car as things look very promising.

Cheers,
shiv
www.vishnutuning.com

ps. We'll see what's involved with becoming a vendor here

 

PICS:

 

Thanks J for posting those pics! Looks like that engine wasn't even ran yet by how clean that turbine side is!

--->RR56: Wow awesome! Glad to hear you got some feedback from them, and even better that the R56 is their next project. I really look forward to hearing what they pull out from their goodie bag.

 

good job, it kinda makes me wonder how you can get higher boost without tweeking the ECU. i guess we need to dig the Bosch management system but reall does not make sense to me. Have you checked your EGTs? K03 is a pretty decent turbo, it will not hold boost, will peak up to 15-16 range and then drop to 12 and hold it, which is one of the biggest lack of it.

Again, I am puzzled with the boost changes due to an exhaust set up.