Canary Yellow on a roll-out car? What's that all about? Appealing to twenty-somethings pining for the days of the school bus? Yikes.

 

I'm actually only wondering about the lack of an electric Mini. It's been quite a while since the first "beta" tests were launched and still no word of the official model? Weird.

I test drove the new Fiesta ST a few months ago as Ford was kind enought to let us review Ford Sync's Android integration etc.
That thing was awful to drive (flex and roll all over the place), pretty quick though and materials used inside felt really cheap too. All in comparison to my stock '05 MCS.
It's really pricy here, so it's in no way worth it, but dunno about the US price and how it compares. I'm so used to everything costing at least double here...

 

The fuel cap on the wrong side is probably due to the right hand drive crowd complaining about the same thing for years now its our turn. the front end looks too long and the tail lights are off a countryman. All set with it, unless they actually fixed the turbo issues.

 

That's just it, you hit the nail on the head. The attraction, the charm, the LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT, is gone.

The first time I saw a Mini, it drew me in, then when they switched to turbo in R56 and added some refinement without totally destroying the looks (some may disagree) that's when I got hooked.

The problem now, is I wan't some of the improvements in tech, engine, suspension, etc. but I'm left with an exterior that I have to keep looking at to try and convince my self that it's ok, or I'll get use to it over time.
You should't have to do that with a new car design, it should draw you in, and make you fall in love with it the first time you see it.
It seams that an overwhelming majority of people feel this way. Maybe over time they will warm up too it, but it shouldn't have to be that way.
I know there were some complaints about the R56 when it came out with former R50/53 owners, but looking at the side by side comparison, those cars were a lot closer to each other then this one.

So, with that said, this car better really impress with it's drivability and handling, performance, etc. Since I'm really trying hard to justify purchasing one on looks. On paper, doesn't seam like it, such a mild bump in performance, accept maybe for the regular cooper (nice bump there)
But the S, and who knows about the JCW, so far not looking good.

 

Yes, I agree. I would be willing to overlook some of the ugliness of the new design if it really had the best performance for the money.
The JCW is what I'm interested in, I hope they really get this one right. For $30K there are a ton of current and new 2015 cars that will offer some amazing performance. The JCW really needs to step it up here, not just a 3-5hp increase. That would be a joke.

With the new 2.0L engine, it wouldn't be too much to ask for at least 240hp, with the ability to eek out few extra ponies with some tuning.

Knowing Mini, my best guess is, possibly a 10% increase in power, so probably about 220hp. Compared to the current JCW.

It would be completely awesome if they could offer an AWD option and keep it under 2900lbs, with at least 250hp.

 

Yes, Focus ST and Fiesta ST have a turbo :-)
And if the Mini JCW will be in the low to mid $30K price range, that little 2.0 better be putting out at least 240hp. because in a short amount of time we will see the 2.3L Ecoboost fitted in the 2015 Focus RS and all new RWD Mustang. Rumor has it that these motors will be putting out 300+hp. it's already in the new Lincoln SUV with 275hp. with great torque and nice fuel economy figures its going to be a great motor.
New Mustang worldwide reveal on Dec 5th

 

I'm excited for the new Mustang:-). I'll take the twin-scroll turbo Mustang over most cars out there. I can't wait to see the final product!

 

Anybody feel that a Fiat 500 is looking better now than it did at introduction? Now is Fiats chance to take the market I feel. Price, size, maybe a better engine option, options perhaps. Fiat must be drowling right about now.

 

I haven't test driven a Fiat, but from what others have said who did, it doesn't corner like a MINI. You sit high, the center of gravity is high, it's sloppier. So unless they fix those things, it will still be apples and oranges.
Of course, for regular consumers, the Fiat is a LOT cheaper, makes it very appealing.

 

I think they found Nemo....... The red one looks like Nemo!!!!

 

The fiat isn't a LOT cheaper. Pricing is actually quite similar.

 

That's the best part - the MINI will finally get proper BMW engines!!
That's great not only for the power, but also the production scale and after-market tuners support: no more N18 (Peugeot) neglect woes - everyone is building performance upgrades for N20 (current BMW 2.0 liter turbo 4). And the base N20B20 engine can be tuned for {180-ish, 220-ish or 245-ish} HP.
Can you say: {stock S, JCW, GP} trim

Lets see the new MINI for what it really is - a 1-series with a different body.
It will be tad heavier than R56 (hopefully not much), but significantly more powerful, so the 0-60 times will improve. As will the MPG (BMW does a better job with engines that PSA).

a

 

Most comparisons of the base models show the Fiat as between $2,000 and $4,700 less than the MINI.

People who are just buying a small, fun car will pay a lot of attention to that. You and I know that they get more with the MINI, but you can't escape that base to base comparison.

 

Watch "2013 Shelby Focus ST Review" on YouTube


Heres a better alternative...280 horsepower 30k ... Mini needs to step it up.

 

Well, that sounds promising, I found this link for Burger tuning, Is this the same exact motor that they are testing here?

http://burgertuning.com/N20_BMW_perf...FUSRfgodIEwAuw

 

Perhaps you haven't been to a MINI dealer for service to observe the typical MINI customer base: middle-aged people who like to #1: look good; #2: have some fun doing it. Oh, and an occasional yuppie.

Not the most price sensitive audience.

Some women will consider Fiat 500 as an alternative (regardless of price), but no warm bloodied male would be caught dead in that chick-mobile.

IMHO,
a

 

The Fiat 500 isn't bad if you like small European hatchbacks, which I do. The MINI is just a better car all round.

 

Incorrect, my friend. (and the funniest part about your comment is that you're driving a Mini, one of the most effeminate vehicles on the road)



Face the facts. Tiny hot hatches, whether branded Fiat or Mini, will never be considered manly to drive. Show respect for your brothers.

I disagree to some extent. I switched over to a Fiat 500 Abarth after my R56 transmission decided to grenade on me. (BMW wanted $8000 + labour to replace it)

Yes, I do miss the luxuries of the Mini, the suspension set up, and the quality material finish. What I certainly don't miss is the mechanical unreliability.

The Abarth is a fantastic little vehicle which embodies a unique kind of driving spirit, much akin to the feelings many of us had for the first generation Minis. I consider it mechanically superior despite its lower quality material finishing. The engine/exhaust note always put a smile on my face.

I'm sorry to see that BMW has continued to tarnish the Mini name with this latest generation. I will continue to be a fan of both vehicle brands, but as far as I'm concerned the R53 was the last of the great Minis built. Let's hope they will one day bring themselves back on track.

Cheers, my fellow Miniacs.

 

Yep, and the Fiats are being bought by younger people who would like to buy a MINI maybe, but the MINI is thousands more.
That's a LOT of difference when you're buying a car on a budget.

 

This is true... masculinity is not defined by size, though the shallow thinkers may think it is.


Not sure if anyone's houses here are made of something other than glass, so you might not want to throw stones. Reliability seems to be difficult to pin down between the two, and you are comparing a marque with more than ten years of models out there, to one that has only recently come onto the market. Hard to say in the long run. Each of our experiences are anecdotal. Just because your MINIs tranny died, doesn't mean that they are more likely to do that than Fiats are... time will tell. Sad thing is that your experience left a bad taste in your mouth, but it's not that common.

 

Ironically, I just registered at TrueDelta.com which is an owner tracked reliability site, and the Fiat's stats in 2012 include multiple transmission problems (big ones) while the MINIs stats do not.

Fiat doesn't get a very good rating for 2012. Far worse than MINI does. And upon reading the actual repairs, the MINIs mostly were minor.. the Fiat's were not.

Nope, glass houses... either brand can yield a lemon or a gem. YMMV

 

The last thing I'd want to do is give the impression I'm throwing stones, please keep in mind that I am a former Mini owner myself. Yes I have been burnt, and I've spent and lost thousands of dollars in an attempt to maintain my Mini for as long as I could. Just as we must responsibly acknowledge the positive qualities of these vehicles, so we must acknowledge the bad.

I was more so referring the infamous chain tensioner issue, fuel pump failures, carbon buildup misfires, water pump fires, turbo oil line leaks, etc.

The Abarth has existed in Europe since 2008, so a direct comparison to the R56 isn't completely unreasonable (pricing and material finish quality differences aside). Please keep in mind that many of its components (including the transmission) are different from the base model Fiat 500s, such as those documented on True Delta (Think base model Mini vs. JCW). I did my research before purchase and was satisfied with the overall reports coming in from Europe and North America. Despite the various issues discussed, the engine design and overall reliability of the vehicle met my expectations.

The only Mini I would have considered after my R56 was the R53, which as you know is regrettably an aging platform with its own share of issues.

My biggest "beef" will remain with BMW for the deplorable way they handled their affairs in regards to the tensioner issue which was never resolved (unless you consider the band-aid replacement tensioner a fix on what is ultimately a faulty engine design). How many owners on these very forums were thoroughly screwed and left to resolve the issue on their own as BMW Corporate washed its hands clean? The absurd pricing structure in regards to the reparation and maintenance of these vehicles is unacceptable for the standard of quality set forth. They can only ride out the "BMW" myth of a prestigious product for so long before the majority of consumers start to smarten up. Lord knows I'd still own a Mini myself if the transmission parts weren't proprietary. The days of mechanical repair are long gone when the easiest solution is to ask the owner of the vehicle to pay $10,000 out of pocket to simply replace the entire component assembly.

Perhaps one can hope that with the radical reinvention of the F56 models, a certain standard of reliability can be restored:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...-cars/3304413/

They shot themselves in the foot with the design, but as you state some things are anecdotal in nature.

A questionably reliable vehicle I am willing to consider if I love the driving experience it offers, but a company behind it that will not support the customers who purchased their faulty product I will not.

BMW better smarten up before they destroy the Mini name entirely.

I apologize for my heated expression, but I hope you recognize that I value our experiences as the customer vs. the company as opposed to the brand vs. the brand. I am certain I'll run into issues with my Fiat, just as I would have with any other vehicle I chose to go with had it been a Toyota or a Ferrari.

 

Oh, I do agree that there have been a lot of failures, and that MINI has stuck their fingers in their ears and hummed instead of owning up to them. Absolutely. All I'm saying is that Fiat has not yet shown themselves to be any better, or worse. Time will tell.
You'll notice in my sig that I own two BASE Cooper models, since most of the major problems happen in the S models. Not all, but most.
Maintenance is also a big component to reliability, and we know that MINI sacrificed reasonable oil change intervals for getting out of a few bucks of maintenance, which was a bad idea that they have now backed away from.

Let's hope that MINI and their BMW overseers get it together and make reliability a higher priority, as well as standing behind bad designs and making it right with the customer!

 

I'd like to put my youngster minded opinion in.. and simply put, I do not like. Those tail lights look like the size of my microwave oven door. Also that front (I think) looks JUST like a sad, fat, deep see fish of sorts... especially with those headlights.. they look exactly like fisheyes. And for a 2.0turbo motor with 2014 tech only pushing 180hp? C'mon, my Saab 900turbo packed full of 1980's tech pushed 180hp. Oh well... Happy to have an R56 though!

 

Lots of opinion both pros and cons. I respect them all whether I agree or not. But one very important adage that BMW/Mini needs to remember..... you lose a customer only once. In early 80's Audi got very arrogant and failed to recognize the problems. And customer's' anguish took hold and they abandoned the brand in droves even the hardcore. It took Audi nearly 30 years to make a come back.