Okay, so I decided to take the plunge and order a JCW tuning kit for my 2015 MCS. Not crazy about the exhaust note nor the dealer pricing, but since I wasn't smart enough to buy a JCW from the beginning, I'm attempting to make up for my mistake now.

The following are my findings however, if I'm getting something wrong, please advise accordingly.

Most of the threads I've read, there are very few comments on a noticeable increase in performance with just the factory turner kit installed. Most seem to like the exhaust sound but as far as extra "zip" while driving, not so much. Hoping the small gain in HP and the JCW badging and the fact that this is a factory approved upgrade will satisfy me.

Most say the best performance boost you can add is with an after-market tuner (Berger Stage 1 or the NM).

After doing some research it appears the NM and Burger provide about the same increases in performance.

The Burger is still listed as Beta and has a ton more connections than the NM. The NM has only two connections and seems to be much less complicated.

The Burger is listed as comparable with the B48 motor however the US Cooper S has the B46. Some early threads mentioned cars going into limp mode or having CEL appear with the Burger. Do not know of that is still the case or not since many threads I've read go back to 2014.

No such reports with the NM when used in the non-race setting (3psi boost setting and 91 octane). When set to the race setting, some have experience issues when run with 93 octane, but upon shut down and restart, issues go away (Again my plan would be to use the product within suggested guidelines).

Additionally, have read that using the NM module with a car having the JCW factory tune kit, performance actually drops off using the track setting on the NM module. I can only assume that the remap that comes with the JCW kit doesn't mesh well with the higher track setting on the NM (which I suppose makes sense, since the module is designed to function most effectively using a stock MCS mapping).

I'm leaning towards the NM (if the JCW tuning kit doesn't do it for me) as a simpler cleaner install, and one that appears to have less issues than the Burger Stage 1. The extra connections offered on the Burger may provide additional flexibility with the tune, and maybe a bit more power, but there is something to be said for simplicity.

Any comments, experiences, suggestions and or corrections to my findings would be greatly appreciated.

 

Nice to hear about your tuning kit. I think I saw some good price specials coming from Florida dealership last month. Hope you got in some of that action and save some money. Did you order exhaust tips? The kit does not come with it, carbon fiber one is sweet but the price was a little high and it's sold individually! (So you'll need 2) I got lucky and got a great deal on the chrome ones. Parts manager practically discounted one, and got me the other for free. I've been very blessed up to now and can't wait till the install next week. I am however, am very curious as you raise really great questions that was "grayish" in other threads.

 

Another advantage to the NM is the one cable is made to the proper length. The Bergers I've seen look more universal and remind me of an octopus. You end up with a lot of extra cable length to route and store and tie wrap for a neat installation. Also, with the NM, when you have to visit the dealer you only have to disconnect the one cable to return it to stock. Takes ~10 minutes max.

This article has dyno sheets of various combinations of FJCW, JCW Kit, S, and all three with the NM Module. Interesting article.

http://www.motoringfun.com/2015/11/1...-power-module/

 

Vetsvette you ever run the Nm at high setting yet? Or just regular with your tune? To me the S itself is nice. The tune will be sweet with the high rpm power. It seems that Nm seems to be a cleaner, more water proof, and overall more user friendly from what I've read.

 

I ran it on the high setting when my S was stock with impressive results. After the Kit install I dropped it to the low setting on recommendation from NM and the guy that wrote the article I posted above. I believe that adding 5 pounds of boost on top of the improvements made with the tune would be excessive for 93-94 octane and would cause the ECU to dial back the power. Also the NM tech said that the high setting + JCW sometimes would go into reduced power mode. Something about the 300+ ft lbs of torque confusing the electronic LSD causing the ECU to go "DUH!". When/if I take it to VIR I'll fill it with racing gas and try it on the high setting then. I guarantee that after you add the tune and the NM that it will knock your socks off.

As far as a cleaner install, well, I'll let you decide.

 

burger provides a lot more customization and tweaks whereas the NM is what you see is what you get. i was able to adjust from +3 to +5 and some users have made it go as high as +7 when mixed with e85 fuel. i personally prefer that type of tweaking. seems like the difference between an android user and an iphone user.

in either case, the case of only unplugging one cable isn't so strong because the burger tune is just 2 cables. both units take only a few minutes to be removed.

for the Burger, there are a few add-ons that you can do after the fact

- FlexFuel adapter. this is so that you can use e85 fuel and when you go higher than certain boost. again, all about tweaking to your liking.

- JB4 - it's an upgrade to stage1. reads a lot more value to provide the proper boost. also includes an OBD2 plug that allow you to use the left stalk to make on the fly changes (customized maps for street, track, disabled...use fuel gauge as boost gauge, etc...)

again, it's all about who wants to plug it in and walk away, and who likes to tweak with their settings. i personally love the customization of the burger tune. i love how terry runs a forum dedicated to his tune and is very responsive. he's constantly looking to make it better, provide more updates, etc.... (for stage 1, he released 3 updates and for the JB4, nothing yet...still waiting on user logs to improve the product).

 

removed.

 

To me the descriptions of Burger unit installation have been misleading.
It requires that you demate two connectors and plug them into the Burger harness. The extra cable length provides flexibility in how you prefer to route the harness to the Burger unit, and where you'd like to place the unit.
Mine was quick, and routing was easy and clean, secured by a few cable ties.

I ran it for awhile on the default boost limit and then adjusted it to a +5psi limit. No issues either way. No use of the optional flex fuel connector nor JB4 add-on. But nice to know that I could experiment further if desired.

I further feel uncomfortable with what I hear about the NM module on high setting with JCW. Adding a hidden over boost function (NM) on top of an ECU tune that narrows margin to detonation, etc. via new boost and timing maps, seems like results maybe hard to predict. When I hear of "power loss" I would think there is a possibility that detonation/knock sensor is intervening, and then I wonder how long an engine is detonating before the ECU reacts. This combination might be calling for very high boost, and with stock injectors and stock fuel pressure seems like more unknown territory, with regard to avoiding a lean condition at high loads and high rpm.

Furthermore, without JCW, operating NM on a setting called "100 octane" (which in my mind means essentially race fuel) while having 93 octane in the fuel tank, is unsettling to me. Claims that "should be ok unless operating in track conditions for long period of time" are subjective and unquantified.

For me I concluded that the low setting with NM is a bit conservative and inflexible, and I wouldn't be comfortable running on high setting. I suspect however, that the NM folks could have educated (or corrected) me to the point that I could be happy using their hardware as well. Part of my reason for choosing Burger was timing -- at the time, there was more info on this forum, with Burger participating in the discussion.

 

Burger has great customer service along with their own forum. Terry and his crew go the extra mile. The install on stage 1 is fool proof. The upgraded JB4 is a little more involved.

 

If you're running your Burger at +5psi then it's just as if you're running NM at high setting. Both boxes does exactly the same thing. You change setting with a switch on NM and via software with the Burger. Default setting with the Burger is also just as conservative as the NM at approx. 3-3.5 psi addition to stock boost.

The power loss with the JCW tuning kit plus NM piggyback was most likely due to knocking/timing being pulled. This is not surprising since if the JCW kit adds 20hp then it's most likely has a higher boost target than stock, let's say about 2psi higher. Then the piggyback at high setting added another 5psi on top. I'm pretty sure with the same condition, the car would behave the same way even if you switch the box from NM to Burger (both at +5psi).

Without going to far, the point is, even if it seems like you're car is running great and throws no code on an aggressive tune, you wouldn't know for sure without a dyno or some logging.

As far as the two boxes if you're choosing between NM and BMS here're my thoughts:

1) NM has a better enclosure. You can upgrade the BMS but it's 50 bucks on top.
2) Are you only running pump gas? If yes, just get the cheaper box because they would do the same thing at pump gas map (conservative). I know some people are running +6 even +7 psi on pump gas with the Burger, but is it safe? I personally don't think so but that's just my opinion. I'd rather use conservative setting and not worry about where I fill up for gas, ambient temperature, etc.
3) Burger box (stage 1 and jb4) allows you to do logging via a laptop or JB4 Connect Kit. This is a big thing for me since you can now monitor critical engine stats to see the effects of your mods. JB4 would allow you to log more stats since it receives additional signals from the OBD port.
4) Aesthetic wise, once you hide either boxes under the battery cover, both are completely concealed. No problem with either burger or nm here.

Just like what other users before me said, it really depends on how far are you trying to go. Mixing ethanol and pump gas, MMT octane booster, meth/water injection, etc? If you're trying to do all this then get the Burger JB4. If all of that sounds like too much trouble to you then I'd suggest just get whichever box is on sale for cheaper because both would serve you equally well.

I personally use the JB4 with the bluetooth connect kit because I like to experiment and I just love how I can control and log everything real time from my iPhone.

Just this week by working with Terry, we found out that with the octane available to me, map2 (+6psi) on the JB4 was not really ideal. We could easily see this by looking at the ign timing curve. Car felt great and no code was thrown but timing curve was not great. I would have kept running map 2 if it weren't for the logs.

 

BTW you can get the Burger for $329 from outmotoring less if you have a coupon code

 

Wow, great information. Thank you very much

The JCW kit from MINI only bumps the car HP by 15 (compared to some publishing 20HP gain).

It does make sense (echoing what you say) that since the NM is designed and tested using a stock motor with the stock mapping. The JCW kit changes that baseline, consequently causing an over boost situation when using the high setting (at least that's what I'm reasoning from the information at hand).

This would likely causes the car's electronics to compensate for this condition and reduce the power output (likely to a level below what we'd see if the NM was left in the low setting on a car with the JCW kit). Probably the reason we hear reports of less power in the high setting with the JCW kit than if left in the lowest setting (if that makes sense).

Following this logic one could conclude that running the NM (or Burger) on low on a car with the JCW kit installed, would actually push the LOW setting gain somewhere between the original LOW (of a non JCW kit car) and the high settings on the same base MCS car. So boost PSI, HP and Torque should be a few ticks higher using the LOW setting on the tuner on a JCW kit car than what are published for a stock MCS. Likely putting the actual performance gains somewhere around "MED" if there was such a setting.

The Burger turner would likely provide a finer tune on JCW kit car than the NM if only because you have more parameters to juggle with the Burger. especially for the guys that want squeeze every bit of power and performance from their car and like to tweak as much input as they can to get the car on the bleeding edge of performance.

Does this deduction make sense or am I "Alice in Wonderland"?

 

would love to hear the details on this please.
1) what octane are you running?
2) are you running the flex fuel adapter as well?
3) i assume you dropped down to Map1?

thanks. fwiw, i'm on 93 octane w/FF adapter on my JB4 and on map2. i've owed terry logs for quite a bit now but NY streets and traffic make it very hard for me to produce something.

 

IMHO too much boost is too much boost, it doesn't really matter whose tuner module gets you there. I can only get 93 and 94 octane at my local pumps, so 5-6 pounds in addition to the tuning kit is too much. I do have access to 100+ octane at VIR, but don't want to pay the price for everyday driving. I believe the 100+ would allow for the higher boost levels without the danger of pre-detonation. I can say that after driving high performance cars for the last 40 years that my admittedly aged "butt dyno" can tell you that the combination of the "module" adding 3-3 1/2 pounds of boost plus the tuning kit puts out more power than the module set on high or the tuning kit alone. I was impressed by the module alone adding 5 pounds, but the combo takes it to a whole new level. How you arrive at that increased boost level is up to you. Much like the choices in exhaust systems, it boils down to personal preference. I did my due diligence before going the NM route as I'm sure other people did before going with the JB or Superchip. I didn't end up with this combination as a result of reading one online thread or article. YMMV

 

USA-RET, your deduction is accurate. To know how much boost the JCW tuning flash adds to the stock map, we need a JCW tuning kit user with access to logging (JB4 or some sort). Then we can know for sure. My estimate would be +1-2psi. On our car it seems like 1psi extra boost equate to approx. 10 hp.

Another thing I forgot to include on my previous post was the fact that it is much easier to change low-high setting on the NM box via the physical switch.

With the Burger you'll have to get their cable/Bluetooth kit, then install the interface on your laptop and connect.

I think the initial intention from Burger was that the stage1 box was not to be tinkered around, making it a truly safe simple plug and play running a conservative boost addition. But once everybody know that you can change the boost and other settings via software, I see many people experimenting sometimes beyond what the piggyback was designed to do. This in turn have created many problems and questions from users with lack of experience.

If you use either nm or burger appropriately according to your octane level, I'm positive you'll have no problem whatsoever.

IMO, JCW kit + piggy back at low setting or 3-5 psi boost on just a piggyback is plenty for our cars. We are not going to win any HP war, but that was not the reason why we bought our mini was it? My previous car (2005 Elise w/sport pack) have taught me that power is not everything. Only 160 HP and I wasn't even close in utilizing all of its potential.

MarcoPolo, I'll pm you about the JB4 so we don't clutter this thread.

 

Thanks for the confirmation. I'll likely go with the NM for ease of install, single wire cut to length, external switch and stouter packaging after I get the JCW kit installed.

UR correct about the reason for buying the MINI. Honestly cannot see ever NOT owning one in the future.