Power loss after reflash/reprogram?
#52
Maybe if everyone with the symptoms post their software version, we can pin-point from which version it started happening.
#54
here are my numbers~
09 factory jcw
production: 06-20-2008
sw: 86.51.00
i had the window issue problem too and got it fixed by the dealer. my sa mentioned that they might not have to do a reflash for it. funny thing is once it started pouring cats n dogs i had the window issue all over again, but it strangely fixed itself ? lol. btw, my car has been to the dealer many times since i've had her.
09 factory jcw
production: 06-20-2008
sw: 86.51.00
i had the window issue problem too and got it fixed by the dealer. my sa mentioned that they might not have to do a reflash for it. funny thing is once it started pouring cats n dogs i had the window issue all over again, but it strangely fixed itself ? lol. btw, my car has been to the dealer many times since i've had her.
#55
CAR: 2009 Factory JCW
Dealer re-flash? : Twice for window rolldown issues and the footwell module replaced
SW: 8C.50.00 current
Prod: 23.06.2008
Boost: 16.0psi per SGII
My first flash was 1 month after car was delivered. I did not have a SGII after the first flash and was taking it easy for the first couple months to break in the engine.
Note: the window dipper issue is back again...4th time so far.
Waiting for this issue to resolve and to purchase the Dimsport module to save ECU mapping before going back to the dealer.
Dealer re-flash? : Twice for window rolldown issues and the footwell module replaced
SW: 8C.50.00 current
Prod: 23.06.2008
Boost: 16.0psi per SGII
My first flash was 1 month after car was delivered. I did not have a SGII after the first flash and was taking it easy for the first couple months to break in the engine.
Note: the window dipper issue is back again...4th time so far.
Waiting for this issue to resolve and to purchase the Dimsport module to save ECU mapping before going back to the dealer.
Last edited by Trashed; 03-06-2010 at 06:55 AM. Reason: update
#56
#57
OP again.
I met with the regional BMW engineer and the service dept. manager at my dealer. We had a calm discussion. The engineer said the 15lbs of boost is normal for the JCW. I told him that I disagreed, all over the online forums and in magazine articles, it is listed as 18-20lbs. We came up with several possibilities. He was very nice and assured me they werent leaving me high and dry just because I use a SGII. He is looking into it further.
1.) I purchased the car used from a different dealer. It is possible that the car had a custom tune that I didnt know about. Likelyhood? I dont know
2.) The new program lowers the boost because of some new DOT? EPA? regulation. If this is the case we will have to live with it. They should definately take the advertised 208HP off of all their window stickers and advertising then.
3.) The new program has a glitch in it that lowers boost without throwing a CEL. Which is what Im saying the problem is.
Please, if you are driving a FACTORY JCW, 09 or newer, and are having this issue. Let your dealer know. Tell them there is an open PUMA case for this. The more cars that get involved the more likelihood that MINI will find a solution in a timely manner. I understand that other models, years, and/or JCW engine kits may be having the same issue but this PUMA case is specifically for the factory 09 JCW.
I met with the regional BMW engineer and the service dept. manager at my dealer. We had a calm discussion. The engineer said the 15lbs of boost is normal for the JCW. I told him that I disagreed, all over the online forums and in magazine articles, it is listed as 18-20lbs. We came up with several possibilities. He was very nice and assured me they werent leaving me high and dry just because I use a SGII. He is looking into it further.
1.) I purchased the car used from a different dealer. It is possible that the car had a custom tune that I didnt know about. Likelyhood? I dont know
2.) The new program lowers the boost because of some new DOT? EPA? regulation. If this is the case we will have to live with it. They should definately take the advertised 208HP off of all their window stickers and advertising then.
3.) The new program has a glitch in it that lowers boost without throwing a CEL. Which is what Im saying the problem is.
Please, if you are driving a FACTORY JCW, 09 or newer, and are having this issue. Let your dealer know. Tell them there is an open PUMA case for this. The more cars that get involved the more likelihood that MINI will find a solution in a timely manner. I understand that other models, years, and/or JCW engine kits may be having the same issue but this PUMA case is specifically for the factory 09 JCW.
#60
a PUMA case is an internal investigation by MINI/BMW corporate. When a service dept runs across a problem they havent seen they call corporate. If corporate cant solve it they open a PUMA case and unleash the engineers. Thats the gist of it. It may not be exactly how it works but its pretty close.
The mini boost gauge isnt too expensive by itself but I was told that the plumbing/installation is extensive and takes 3-5hrs. Thats expensive with labor around $100+/- an hr. I was told $500-$600 would be the cost of getting one installed from the dealer. Someone with actual experience might know better.
The mini boost gauge isnt too expensive by itself but I was told that the plumbing/installation is extensive and takes 3-5hrs. Thats expensive with labor around $100+/- an hr. I was told $500-$600 would be the cost of getting one installed from the dealer. Someone with actual experience might know better.
#61
Not saying this is total balderdash, but would be the first case ever I've heard of. They're saying that their cars passed/were approved by EPA and that now the cars aren't passing? Never heard of this on any other car before. There was a rather infamous case when the Mazda RX8 first came into the US. After questioning by several journalistic sources, it was found that last minute software changes resulted in the rotary engine making less horsepower than advertized, and Mazda had to change the Moroney and make amends to those who had already bought one. BUT, it was not something retroactive that the gubment ordered, it was their own faulty test procedures. I find it very hard to believe that the EPA would tell MINI, hey you have to bring these cars in, one by one, without a formal announcement, and detune them. Not buying that. Keep us updated.
#62
Just got a call from my dealer. They checked on my car, all the programming and everything is loaded correctly. I asked them what was updated on the new programming, they say they don't really know. But it was related to emissions, so I guess they really detuned it for new emission standards?
He also said that the E46 M3's back then, they had the same problem after the update as it reduced power as well. So I guess we are out of luck as they couldn't revert back to the old programming.
He also said that the E46 M3's back then, they had the same problem after the update as it reduced power as well. So I guess we are out of luck as they couldn't revert back to the old programming.
#63
Just got a call from my dealer. They checked on my car, all the programming and everything is loaded correctly. I asked them what was updated on the new programming, they say they don't really know. But it was related to emissions, so I guess they really detuned it for new emission standards?
He also said that the E46 M3's back then, they had the same problem after the update as it reduced power as well. So I guess we are out of luck as they couldn't revert back to the old programming.
He also said that the E46 M3's back then, they had the same problem after the update as it reduced power as well. So I guess we are out of luck as they couldn't revert back to the old programming.
And WTF are they talking about on E46 M3's? I had one and followed all the forums of the day and there was never any mention of a mysterious power-robbing software update. I currently own a MZ4 Coupe with the same S54 engine and again, no forum mentions of a software update to avoid. Your dealer simply did his job, doesn't really know what that job did, and is just making up stories now.
#65
#66
Just called, they said they didn't flash the ECU. I wonder if the timing is off now. I have to check my HW number in the dash now. In regular mode, the car seems the same, but when I put it in SPORT mode it doesn't really change much. The pickup in the revs is just like regular mode, the exhaust note (burp) doesn't come in like it used to in SPORT mode. I sat in my driveway revving and can't notice ANY difference in SPORT vs regular. I'm bringing it in on Monday, hopefully they will be able to fix something, although I have a feeling that I will get nowhere.
Last edited by miniminn; 04-17-2010 at 10:21 AM. Reason: adding more stuff
#67
#68
The ABF/MINIUSA drive event passed through town this weekend. Spoke to Mike from ABF who individually tunes cars a la Jan about the alleged JCW "detune" and he had this to say: The MINI software update is pretty archaic. Lots of ongoing small changes are made along the way, and the dealer doesn't get to handpick which changes they want to download, the only way it happens is to connect to the BMW/MINI mainframe and wait while your car goes through the entire cycle. The idea that JCW's are getting the S software update is a possibility although me telling him about this was the first he'd heard of it.
BTW, they had a factory JCW as one of their drive cars. He had gone through their whole fleet and done his tunes on them. Said the average S was making about 150hp at the wheels and could easily be tuned to around 170. The JCW started out with about 190 and while it didn't see as dramatic of a gain, could be tuned to about 202 whp with everything else stock.
BTW, they had a factory JCW as one of their drive cars. He had gone through their whole fleet and done his tunes on them. Said the average S was making about 150hp at the wheels and could easily be tuned to around 170. The JCW started out with about 190 and while it didn't see as dramatic of a gain, could be tuned to about 202 whp with everything else stock.
#69
I've got this same issue after picking my car up from the timing chain tensioner fix (or the 30k service although the work order for the timing chain lists the DME specifically).
2009 JCW (Factory)
Prod: 27.08.2008
Current SW: 8C.50.00
Previous: 86.51.00
I emailed Cincinnati Mini tonight. I will call and !@#$ tomorrow if I don't receive a call back... Might also look into a lawyer... We'll see...
2009 JCW (Factory)
Prod: 27.08.2008
Current SW: 8C.50.00
Previous: 86.51.00
I emailed Cincinnati Mini tonight. I will call and !@#$ tomorrow if I don't receive a call back... Might also look into a lawyer... We'll see...
#70
#73
Just to make things weirder, our local club treasurer had the window-dipping problem on his factory '09 JCW and it was also due for its first oil service. I warned him about the anecdotes on this thread so he expressed his concerns to the dealer when he took it in. His software upgrade went off without a hitch, car's power and burble still healthy, and his windows fixed. The dealer told him that a JCW Stage I kit usually had to be "reloaded" after a general software upgrade, but they'd had no issues with the factory cars. Big dealer too.
#74
So here is the link to the software database thread:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-versions.html
I noticed that many MCS models had the same software version as many of us JCW owners. 8C.50.00 ...especially after the re-flash. Does that mean that our JCWs are tuned exactly to the same specs as the MCS? ...or that we are de-tuned to the MCS? Can you have the same tune and expect different performance just because of the JCW turbo, heads and pistons?
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-versions.html
I noticed that many MCS models had the same software version as many of us JCW owners. 8C.50.00 ...especially after the re-flash. Does that mean that our JCWs are tuned exactly to the same specs as the MCS? ...or that we are de-tuned to the MCS? Can you have the same tune and expect different performance just because of the JCW turbo, heads and pistons?
Last edited by spinned; 04-30-2010 at 09:32 AM.
#75