For all you track day junkies/road racers: the need for an lsd in autox is well documented--do you think it's absolutely necessary on a road course (i.e. WGI, Mid-Ohio, Mosport--the ones I live at )? I'd like to get a new MCS to track but don't know if I should wait until next year for the available lsd.

Thanks.

 

Before I put the Leda's on a felt somewhat of a need for a LSD in tight corners. Now with the Leda's the desire has mostly gone away. It may come back when I start bumping my HP beyond the 15% pulley and CAI that I have now.

It probably really comes down to driving style and how much you're willing to spend to get the last 1/2 second or so of lap time. If you're doing non-timed driving events I would think you'll be perfectly happy without a LSD. It might make you a smoother driver too.

 

>>Before I put the Leda's on a felt somewhat of a need for a LSD in tight corners. Now with the Leda's the desire has mostly gone away. It may come back when I start bumping my HP beyond the 15% pulley and CAI that I have now.
>>
>>It probably really comes down to driving style and how much you're willing to spend to get the last 1/2 second or so of lap time. If you're doing non-timed driving events I would think you'll be perfectly happy without a LSD. It might make you a smoother driver too.


Thanks Mark--I've been doing track days for years (over 150 now) with a low-powered 318ti, but never with a FWD car. I do time myself (when allowed) to gauge my progress....I'd like to leave the MCS as stock as possible (except for brake pads).....or until I start chewing up front tires!

Gary

 

--I've been doing track days for years (over 150 now) --

That's 150 track days, not years!


Gary

 

I used to autocross and road race a VW GTI (1986). I added a Quaife diff at one point. In road racing (i.e. Sears Point) I would say it reduced lap times in normal conditions only about 1/2 sec (125 sec. laps). The VW had rather low torque, and in 3rd and 4th gear not enough torque for the Quaife to help much. It did make driving on a slippery track more secure. In 2nd gear autocrosses the diff. helped MUCH more; maybe 1-2 sec. depending on course design in a 60 sec. course.

This is all for timed competition of course. If you are just out learning in a track day situation of course, the diff. type is not going to be very relevant.

Cheers,
Dave

 

>>For all you track day junkies/road racers: the need for an lsd in autox is well documented--do you think it's absolutely necessary on a road course (i.e. WGI, Mid-Ohio, Mosport--the ones I live at )? I'd like to get a new MCS to track but don't know if I should wait until next year for the available lsd.

I have the Quaife in a 2003 MCS and for track days it doesn't matter as much as good sticky track tires and driver skill.
In fact if your tires are not up to the task the LSD can't really do it's full job.

 

>>>>For all you track day junkies/road racers: the need for an lsd in autox is well documented--do you think it's absolutely necessary on a road course (i.e. WGI, Mid-Ohio, Mosport--the ones I live at )? I'd like to get a new MCS to track but don't know if I should wait until next year for the available lsd.
>>
>>I have the Quaife in a 2003 MCS and for track days it doesn't matter as much as good sticky track tires and driver skill.
>>In fact if your tires are not up to the task the LSD can't really do it's full job.

That's a good point--I plan on staying with street tires (probably S0-3s) as I have all along....maybe I should just get an 04 and be done with it. Wonder how much the option will cost, anyway?

 

>>I have the Quaife in a 2003 MCS and for track days it doesn't matter as much as good sticky track tires and driver skill.
>>In fact if your tires are not up to the task the LSD can't really do it's full job.

That's a good point--I plan on staying with street tires (probably S0-3s) as I have all along....maybe I should just get an 04 and be done with it. Wonder how much the option will cost, anyway?[/QUOTE]
For the 2005 MCS you can order LSD but probably not till about January- stay tuned. Not sure anyone knows the cost but if it is in the $1500-1800 range that would be great.

Installing Quaife in a MC or MCS now is about $1100 for the part and $900 to $1500 for the labor alone plus you void the warranty.

 

The best thing you can do for your MINI in terms of motorsport is get it some negative camber and a proper racing alignment. The rear negative camber can be accomplished by lower springs (which would be good for the front as well) but for the front you will need adjustable camber plates. I would do that before going the LSD route. Having said that, I have gone and done the opposite. I have not installed adjustable camber plates (has to do with rules) and have bought an LSD which I will install before my next race at Mid Ohio.

My experience at Mid Ohio was that you could just not come off any corner without spinning the wheels, which = SLOW. I am hoping the LSD cures that big time. I also plum wore out my two fronts (VictorRacers) and people who know told me "told ya so....the beasties NEED negative camber in the front!"

 

hi, i am kinda having the same problem if i do happen to get another mini (my old 02 MCS just got written off... and no i didnt crash it, but some other accidents happened, got all the money back now by insurance)
which i think i will since i can't think of much cars to get in the price range thats as good as a mini (yes i am biased :D )
i will certianly get the facelift mini if i do, but i am now thinking if i should wait for the LSD since it won't be available until start of next year...
i myself is certianly not a skilled driver, just started going to track days on the mini, it was fun even in stock :smile: it was with those damm runflats but...
now i already was planning to have 2 sets of wheels whcih 1 set will be only for track (probably some R compuand tires) and 1 for street..
i certianly understand that the most improtant is of course the driver.....
so u think i should just spend the money in driving school instead of waiting for the LSD???

 

erichui,
I think if you have a MCS you need to do some planning about what class you want to race in for SCCA solo II.
If you want to be the most competitive choose G-stock and just drive your stock MCS with a drop in filter, cat-back exhaust if you like, and X-lyte 16" wheels with race tires that are DOT approved like Kumho V700 or even Falken Azenis sport. Even better if you have an MC to race in H-stock.

If you are looking at the more modded classes like STX for the MCS or adding a pulley and going into SM then that is a whole different ball game.
You can do more with suspension and camber in the front and rear, and think about Quaife LSD.

If you wait till Jan 2005 and order a MCS now for that build date then you have the option for LSD from the factory but then you'd race not in G-stock but more like D-stock which would be a little tougher.

Skill counts alot. A great driver in a stock MCS can do better than about 90% of the cars that run that day most likely. Good tires are very helpful. Driving school to practice smoothness of braking, throttle, steering, etc is priceless.

You'll need three things only.
A MINI, doesn't really matter which one.
Driving school with good instruction.
Lots of seat time driving autocross or on the track.

Have fun.

 

I had an autocross yesterday. My times werea bout 1.5 seconds off the top SM Driver. I was very happy with the times, but I experienced so much inner tire slipage, that I know I lost time.

I know that I can improve my driving ability, and am attending a driving course in july, but i really see the need for the LSD. THat is also because I have about 195 at the wheels. I am running 225-50-16 tires to, which have helped on the slipage, but it still is a problem.

 

Thanks for all the great replies--after further analysis (to paralysis!) my mindset is now leaning towards a Cooper v-a-v an S--it's quite a bit cheaper and doing track days I'm not all that concerned with speed....hell, my 318ti was slow too but it surprised many people. The power/weight ratio between the two is virtually the same, plus I'll be able to put the saved money into suspension/brakes if needed and the lower power output might obviate the need for limited slip.

I know the camber is fixed on the cars (as in BMWs)--what do they come with stock? Like -.5 all round? And what do you want to see? On my 318 I ran -2 all round and it was fine.

Thanks again, and keep it coming!

 

very good write up..
1 thing i really want to ask..
as with LSD.. does that mean exciting a corner u can just floor the gas and still have like no wheel spin, where with an open diff. u have to learn things like throttle control to minimise wheel spin.. does that mean, 1 would not be able to learn things like throttle control and etc with an LSD?
sorry with so many questions. as for what class i am intending to track with the mini, i am still not excatly sure, since the track days i was attending is just like casual ones where all kind of cars just drive around together, kind of like an open day.... (no fire extinguisher needed too, however after what happened to my mini i would buy 1 just in case even for the street..... long story but)
thank you :smile:

 

Novice drivers won't really find the need for LSD. I was perfectly happy with my first MINI track day when I first bought the car but that quickly changed. Last season as my speeds increased I found it increasingly tough to get the power down out of the corners. My final trackday last year had me spinning all over the place (blame it also on worn Yok ES100s). This season I've gone with a set of sticky R compounds and eventhough they have helped quite a bit I still have issues. Getting the power to the tarmac with our cars all has to do with your right foot. Getting throttle balance perfect out of a corner takes a gentle foot (mashing the throttle is just going to get you spinning still). LSD in '05 is going to be a great option for those who have the opportunity to utilize it. A friend of mine has the Phantom grip LSD in his MCS and exiting the corners you can see how his car just bites the tarmac better. This car is unbelievably fun on the track regardless. The MINI gets a little lack of respect when I first pull up to the track, but once I pass a Porsche Boxster on a twisty track, ther are no more smirks

cheers

Amit

 

Me, I got my *** kicked at Mid Ohio by a lot of the JS cars (Modded M3's mostly).......I'll see them again in August......LSD and light flywheel and clutch installed......

 

Flooring the gas on the track or autocross does not ensure the results you want if you want to go faster. Wheel spin is a function of loss of traction. If for any reason the balance of your MINI is upset by too fast or hard braking or throttle or by driving the wrong line through a turn then you WILL loose traction and control.

When you go to driving school instructors always stress being smooth with all controls. Steer less, brake less, throttle smoothly, move slowly to go faster. Think balance. From what I have seen at autocross the best times are done by cars that don't seem to be moving that fast-they are not being tossed about and there is no wasted energy-they are not being muscled.

Having LSD will not matter as much until you learn how to drive your MINI well. As you gain more skill you will appreciate what LSD has to offer. The best combination is LSD in skilled hands. You can buy LSD but you'll have to learn how to use it.

Flooring it out of a turn (depending on the road conditions) will likely be a bit better with LSD but there can be a little wheelspin if you try hard enough. If done abruptly the surge of speed will send the weight of the car to the rear wheels and the power from from the front wheels so you in effect go slower than if you squeeze on the throttle smoothly just as you reach the apex of the turn and exit with a balanced weight distribution maximizing traction and power delivered to the front wheels.

LSD in a MINI is not AWD. You still have only two front driving wheels.
Have fun.


gbuff1,

For a stock MCS the suspension settings from the factory are in this range for camber.
Front -0.1 to -0.9 degrees (mine is -0.5)
Rear -1.0 to -2.0 degrees (after H-sport lowering springs mine was -2.4)
You cannot align the front unless you add camber plates.
You cannot align the rear unless you have adjustable lower rear control arms
It's been suggested for MINI autocross that a good setting for starters would be -2.0 degrees for the front 1/16 toe out to zero toe and for the rear -1.0 degrees (think one degree difference from the front but depending on which camber plate you use you might get -2.2 degrees or more) and 1/8 toe in to zero toe for the rear. You can't adjust caster.

If you are serious about autocross you will find that the lack of adequate camber is a limiting factor in getting the most out of your race wheels and your LSD. Think about the "whole" package and plan accordingly.

 

I highly second the need for camber plates especially for the front end. When driving the car hard under the cornering forces, the outside of the tire has all the contact and the inside is not glued at all to the ground. You can tell by looking at how the front tires wear and you can see how the outsides get destroyed much quicker. Under normal street driving, stock camber is just dandy, but when the forces get high, a bit more is definitely needed to keep things "level."

 

I have been theorizing that perhaps a positive stop on the droop of the suspension might prevent the tire wear. I am still trying to gigure out a way to do that though. That way you would not need to get camber plates. My other thought is to get a pair of standard top mounts and move the mounting studs say a 1/4". I am guessing that would be a) cheaper and b) easier than the adjustable jobs.