Hey all, first post, love your site! (Bit long, sorry!)

Came from a Ninja 650, to a car...

For a long time I drove a used 330ci. Did all the maintenance on it, couldn't afford BMW prices, so I rolled up my sleeves. Duct tape, epoxy, battery dremel kit, coolant, oil, two toolkits and sheetmetal for making custom tools all rode in the trunk every day. I needed to use them...consistently. Lotsa fun. Loved the car, loved working on it.

Then I stepped in it.

Sold the 330, went out and looked at all sorts of cars. Bought a 370z base model 6spd. And I feel like I've lost a long time friend. I've had the Z for 15 months now, and it still looks alien, not mine. I've spend hours, just staring at it, with that neutral "beige" feeling. It's in the 330's parking spot, dammit!

Z goes fast. Makes noise. Looks cool. Never needs help or work. It feels like a Carrera at 40% cost... but it feels empty. Like it's a really fast commute train for one. Austere, empty, hollow. I don't know how to say it, but it's driving me NUTS. I used to take the motorcycle out every night from 10pm to 1am to ride and practice drills. With the Z, I drive it to the library. And maybe take my parents' toyota because it gets better gas mileage for trips down to Cal Poly. WHAT'S UP WITH THIS?!?!? THe Z handles really well, feels stable and fast, but I feel...clinical while driving it, like I'm removing a splinter or pulling a Dexter Morgan on a large hairy spider. I'll be in a fast turn on a windy road trying to mentally add up the cost of the drive. THe corners feel minor, and through all of this, the car's revs remain low. I kind of wish it was more dramatic, that I could really get the revs up high, feel something other than the sensation that my request to get from a to b has been received and is being executed. Clarkson would say "soulless", but he wouldn't notice a lambo falling into a swimming pool unless it had more than 600 hp.

I'm wondering if any of you folks have had similar issues with other cars that have "driven" you to go and pick up a Mini instead? I'm also considering a used Elise. I think it's like a motorcycle with an aluminum cage, but I really think I"m in love with the Mini. I'm being held back by FEARS (night terrors over repairs I can't do at home...bmw repair people telling me to bend over...) over reliability, and am most attracted to the warm happy feeling of imagining myself going through endless twisty roads, easy parking, awesome fuel mileage, puppy dog looks, and zipping (safely?) in traffic.

Would anyone say that I'm crazy to leave the Z? Am I nuts, or am I just starting to see the light?!

 

Nothing against the Z as it's a plenty competent car, but I can see how it might lack the zippiness / fun factor / "soul" it sounds like you're looking for. I share your concerns about the cost of repairs on the MINI, and am torn on keeping mine past the warranty or trading it in on a new one at that point and just rotating MINIs every few years (fortunately I've got a bit to decide, since I'm really attached to MY MINI and it would be hard to trade it in). Mine don't, but if your driving patterns allow for it (with regards to the mileage restrictions), maybe consider a lease and limiting yourself to reversible mods.

But no, I definitely don't think you're crazy. The MINI is a blast to own and drive... It sounds like it may be what you're looking for.

If you don't need the back seat or extensive cargo room (and I'm guessing you don't really if you're considering a MINI or Elise and currently own a Z) you might also consider a Miata (new or used) as well if you're not already. Cheaper and easier to work on, but quite fun and have that "je ne sais quoi" it sounds like you're looking for. If you consider this route, would recommend driving at least one car from each generation before deciding which you prefer as they each offer a notably different experience (much like the R50/53 MINI vs the R56).

 

Sounds perfectly normal to me. The Z is a beautiful car and as stated very competent. Having said that, it's not a MINI and if it's in you to really live, breathe, drive, motor, and be one with your vehicle you know the outcome. Go ahead...you know you want to.

 

I've sold cars that I wish I still had....mostly my 69 Dodge Roadrunner. It was big, didn't handle worth crap, but it was scary fast and when I looked at it sitting in the driveway I got all warm and fuzzy. Then there's my bikes, I have a new Road King, amazing bike. But every time I buy a new one, I miss the bike I sold. Don't worry coolantleak, it happens to all of us.

If you're drawn to the Mini, then get one, by the sounds of it, you won't miss the Z. The Mini is not the fastest car I've owned, but it honestly one of the most enjoyable vehicles I have driven. If you are looking for more "feel" from the road, then the Mini should more than satisfy you. Also, with the size and weight of the Mini, it's not hard to put some crazy power to the wheels if you want to. You also mentioned reliability; I have had a few minor problems, but nothing major and the dealer/service network (at least up here) has been better than most others I have dealt with.

 

Do yourself a favor, and go test drive the MINI (assuming that you haven't yet). Make sure to take an extended drive, try it out on some freeway on and off-ramps, go do some twisties in it.

Then after the test drive, just drive home in your 370Z, and consult with your brain, but more with your heart. Do what your heart is telling you...

 

I traded my 04 Nissan Spec V for my 07 MCS. I am past the end of my warranty and it does bother me but not to the point I need to get a new one. If you worked on your 330 you will be at home with the MINI. They are pretty easy to work on minus some MINI specific tools you need to have. Going from a Z to the MINI the first thing you will notice is that the MINI is not as fast. But with some modifications and a tune you will be as quick. Handling in a MINI is crazy awesome. You will be blown away drving it. The other thing is that MINI owners as a whole are different. I think you will be suprised that even after owning a MINI now for almost 2 years I still smile when I get in and drive. But a word of advice test drive every thing else before the MINI because the minute test drive one its over you are getting one. I have successfully sold 2 people on MINI after they test drove one.

 

even with a justacooper its the most fun ive ever had in a car. most personality too. its just such a fun car to own. The MINI subculture and friendship circle is great. everybody is here for one another to talk and have fun and share great experiences.

but from switching over to the mini well all i can say is my daily driver was a 1990 sedan deville. talk about a big change.. lol

 

Yeah, the MINI is not fast, but it is quick. (Yes, there's a difference between those two words).

It's peppy, a really excited puppy who loves revving. You can have more fun going fast in a slow(er) car, than you can have going slow(er) in a fast car. This is especially true if you don't wish to attract the attention of your local law enforcement!

The MINI is just chock-full of personality, and fun-to-driveness, (yes, I made that word up). Best of all, it has true SOUL...

 

I can empathize with you. I just drove a base 370 and it felt soulless nothing like my mcs in fact everything I have driven has lacked the it factor that my mcs has. Just get a mini. It will change your life.

 

Hey, I've been driving my MINI S since 07 and just recently purchased an 03 Honda S2000. These cars are both fast but are like night and day. They both handle the twisties easily but in different ways. THe Honda handles like the roadster that it is while the MINI is more like a go cart.

The Honda has oversteer while the Mini Understeers. I think you will find the Honda possessing the soul that is missing in the Nissan. It has over an 8000 red line and cruises between 3 -4000 RPM's range. When you kick it over 6000, the Vtec engine kicks in big time and comes alive. The exhaust roars with the sound of a more expensive Italian sports car.

Don't get me wrong, I love my MINI and everytime I switch from the S to the MINI, I fall back in love with the MINI. However I don't believe it has the "soul" that you are looking for. You sort of 'wear' the S2000 and the convertible makes it that much more enjoyable as you become the vehicle and the road is the enemy. THe MINI is more like a wild day at the go cart track!

No offense anyone here as I love both! My .02 :D

 

Get an 02-06 MINI, put a few bucks into to push it up to 220-240whp and watch the look on the 370Z drivers when you pass them =D My MINI is pushing 235+whp and its crazy fun.

Mind you, the 370Z is a sexy car to say the least. Hard decision.

 

I'm sure that the 370 is a great car. I'd love to have one if I fit in the darn thing. (At 6'1" I'm too tall unless I practically lay down in the seat and I like to drive sitting more or less straight up.)

I find that cars, vehicles in general, can have "personality" and can get under your skin. And the fastest, best handling cars aren't necessarily the ones that do that. I once had a VW bus that I just loved to drive. I'd take it up in the Santa Cruz mountains on weekends and chase Porsches with it just for fun. Most of them would eventually pull over and let me pass. That bus sure wasn't the best handling car out there, but it was a blast to drive. (Of course it helped that I had a highly modified, race prepped Porsche motor in it along with Koni adjustable shocks, heavy duty sway bars, and some great Michelin rubber.) For years after I got rid of the bus, I drove more "practical" vehicles. Like an '82 Toyota 4x4 truck. And more recently, an early 90's 4Runner. Then, at the prodding of my wife, I started looking for a convertible. To make a long story short, it had to have some sort of rear seat for when we travelled with our beagle. That severly limited my choices, it seemed, and then I found the Mini. Not just any Mini, but a fully loaded Mini cabriolet with every possible JCW option. I was in love at first site. (I'd driven a JCW cab earlier but it wasn't the right color.) I'd flown down to Burbank to see and likely buy the car and when I saw it, I knew I'd be driving up the coast in it that same day.

To make a long story short, in the year and a quarter I've had the car, my motorcycle (which I usually couldn't be kept off of), has stayed in the garage except maybe 5 or 6 times. I just love that car. It's not the most refined, nor the quickest, nor the fastest, but damn, it's just plain FUN.

Take an extended drive in a Mini. Maybe even a convertible. Drive one of the new, second generation cars. Then drive a first generation car with the supercharger instead of the turbo. See if you can drive a JCW. Then decide. (I prefer the 1st generation car. To me it's less refined than the 2nd gen and simply has more personality. Plus the supercharger sounds great and that burble when you lift is just music to my ears.)

Have fun making your choice.

 

Thanks for your help! It's reassuring to find out that others have similar experiences. I'll take a test drive in a week or so, and try to see if my impressions match up with the fun/happy factor I'm looking for.

I appreciate your replies, and look forward to seeing how she handles!

 

CoolantLeak hope thats not saying your Z 's leaking coolant

 

If you're worried about maintenance, the 2002-2006 has a bullet proof tritech variant engine--pretty easy to work on, if you're into modding and such. It's more visceral than the 2007+, which is a little quicker comparing stock to stock, but more refined--not as much edginess. You can get the R53 pretty damned quick too though, if you're into modding. The R56 engine isn't as user friendly for modding/repairs.

A Lotus is the only thing I'd consider replacing the MINI with, but that midengine, although as reliable as hell, isn't as easy to get to and maintain as the R53's.

 

CoolantLeak, have you ever found yourself sneaking out to the garage looking for an excuse to just sit in your car?

"Uh, just checking out something with the computer I read about online, dear - I'll be there in a minute."

Test drive the MINI. You'll understand.

And, coming from the Z, you may feel that you need the 'S', but drive the base Cooper, too, before you decide.

The 'godfather' of the Miata, Bob Hall, used to defend Mazda's reluctance to offer a turbo Miata by maintaining you could get into all the trouble you could handle with just 85 bhp. He meant, of course, that the real joy of a light, nimble car was in what you could wring from the gearbox and handling in the twisties.

I drove a 93 (NA) Miata for 15 years and just sold it to get the MINI. I learned the mantra Hall was talking about in the Miata and see the same qualities in the Cooper.

Nothing against the S at all (or against the Z, either), but the MINI's soul doesn't live in the power of the turbo. The Miata was built by a team of car nuts to be a driver's car from the ground up. It wasn't a sedan reworked to look like a sports car. I think a lot of that is true for the MINI, too.

Drive a MINI and see if you don't get your groove back.

 

Hey, that is exactly the way I have felt since April of 2009! Except in my case, 330='07 Miata and 370z='09 MCS.

 

I could see buying a Justa just to be able to go thru the gears more. I'm in 2nd doing 50+ and then err. speed limit!

 

Since the topic of Miatas seems to be a recurring theme here (as should be expected whenever the elusive quality of automotive "soul" is discussed), I believe the OP might consider kicking it up several notches. Since he's coming out of a 370Z, and he's not afraid of some maintenance, I'm thinking hunting down a clean low-mileage unmolested FD RX-7 may be a dead-center bullseye. These cars are silly fast, and are anything but clinical. They absolutely drip with "soul" (and the thrill of the hunt for a really good older car definitely has a way of making that warm fuzzy endearing feeling even better). I've driven cars that were faster than the FD, but they were boring, so I do know where you're coming from.

Maybe an older Porsche, as a more costly alternative? (Don't make the Porsche-snob mistake of discrediting 944 turbos and 968s.)

 

I used to own a 350Z. I had considered the R53, but after driving 350Z I was smitten by its power. And indeed the Z felt much more powerful. There was no torque steer of course. I hated the rattles and bounciness of the earlier gen Z. Nissan did not have the suspension sorted out yet. It got to the point that I just never drove the thing because I didn't want to put up with the bouncy rear end. I did enjoy driving it when I drove it hard, but as slower mundane speeds it was just annoying.

I also used to drive a 1985 Porsche Carrera. This car defined visceral. Everything was so direct. The flat 6 felt alive as did the suspension. Of course I always had to watch out for the snap oversteer. That car was fun to drive when driven hard. But it too was annoying when running mundane tasks. And frankly I spend a lot of time doing mundane tasks on a daily basis.

So I finally got the R57 in an automatic because I wanted to have something that I didn't have to shift constantly. And I had the JCW Stage 1 kit installed because I wanted more power. And this car does deliver on that end. It's not a late model P car. But this thing is perfect in the role of dual function daily errand runner and fun go-kart when I'm in the mood. And sometimes the two functions overlap.

I haven't made any suspension mods yet. I'm probably going to because I want more roll stiffness. I love the immediacy of the car. And with the automatic, I feel it's actually quicker in traffic. I love the sound of the JCW exhaust. If I want to just take an easy cruise drive, I just don't hit the sport button. The steering lightens up, the car shifts sooner, and the exhaust tones down. I'm in sport mode 90% of the time though.

If you're comparing it to a motorbike, it will never give you the same visceral thrills. I doubt any car can do that. If you compare it to the Z, it does feel more immediate and more "raw". But it is FWD and so it drives differently than a RWD car.

BTW, I also have a Mk VI GTI DSG. The GTI is more refined, almost too refined. But it's a great commuter car.

 

One of the many reason I bought a MINI, and an R50 in particular, was that it is indeed so visceral. I slapped an intake and exhaust in it, and I am entertained every time I drive it, and I dont have to go stupid-fast to do it!

Before I had given up bikes, the MINI kept me off of them for longer and longer periods of time without withdrawal symptoms. The car wasnt the only reason I gave up riding, but it did contribute.

 

Just like some had said test drive a MCS. The MCS is definitely a very fun car to drive, it's quick although not fast. You can make it fast just like any other car, but i believe it'll will not touch the Z's performance. Also, if you can find one on a use car lot, test drive an S2000, maybe a CR if available. warning, the S2000 bites back. An Elise would be great, if you want soul (rawness) you'll find it in the elise, every inch of it. I don't know, you sound like you're confuse. If you want raw then i don't see how you miss the 330, because it's buttery smooth.

 

He may not be equating "rawness" with "soul", but everybody is a little different in that reguard (I know I don't).

 

Yea i see what you mean. I said what said in regards to his explanation i.e. the Z being easy to drive on twisty roads. He wants the drive to be more dramatic. The Z lacks soul because it's less raw?

 

The thing I really like about the Mini is the very direct connected feel with the road. The comparisons to a go-kart aren't far off the mark. It's just a driver's car.

FYI, if you're considering a convertible, be aware that while the official last year of the Gen 1 cars was 2006, the 2007 and 2008 convertibles remained Gen 1 cars. For the convertible, 2009 was the first year of the Gen II.

Also, I've been hearing some disconcerting things about the Gen II vacuum pump drive off the camshaft where nuts back out, get worn, break, and then total engine destruction is the result. Just a heads up.