Twice the wear on the clutch actuation linkages, pressure plate fingers and release bearing.

Synchronizers make this practice obsolete. Just like brake pads make Fred Flintstone stops obsolete.

In regards to the fully released clutch pedal before throttle application, I meant after a start. You will have to feather it or apply throttle slightly as you start, the amount of which varies with conditions and driving style.

Shifting in subsequent gears, it is best to have the clutch pedal fully released before applying gas so as not to 'slip' the clutch as you accelerate.

 

dont double clutch bc you dont Have to... thats mostly for Truckers / Big Rigs. You have syncros, as others have pointed out, that basically "double clutch" for you.

-releasing the clutch Before applying Gas: only good in High gears, like 5th or 6th... Not quite so good in lower gears, unless you are just lightly cruising from stop light to stop light.

one last thing i DIDNT see on here... DO NOT rest your hand on the Shifter when your not shifting! i know you want to, and most of you probably do ... but that will cause excessive wear on the stick shift assembly.

also, DO NOT EVER do the "shift **** wiggle", where you "wiggle" the shifter to see if your in gear or not. That especially, will cause excessive wear on the assembly too!

 

such a funny thread . . . .

I've driven many of my cars close to 200,000 miles and never replaced a clutch - 5 cars in the garage now and no automatics.

I rest my hand on the shifter most of the time

I 'wiggle' a lot

I know how to rev match .. that's by ear

If I must shift to first while still moving I double clutch

I taught my kids how to drive stick from day one of driver's ed' - they all own manual shift cars - no one has replaced a clutch yet.

Slip the clutch is a basic skill - when I first went to a MNI dealer in 2002 they handed me keys to a Justa and an S and said have a nice test drive BUT slip the clutch or you'll never get out of the parking lot . . .

can I tell ya how to do it here? . . . . .

***********

maybe you should search out a local mini club, or old british car club or another club and ask if a very experienced stick driver would be willing to give you a lesson or two . . .

 

I think this is an interesting thread.
I've never had to replace a clutch and had 200K miles on my last one.
It never hurts to review the basics or go over the terminology.
Driver's Ed classes in this area use automatics.

I was taught by my father and brothers to keep my foot off the clutch when not using it. Also to keep my hand off the shift **** when not shifting.
Maybe some people can do those things and not cause unnecessary wear over time, but they are probably good habits to practice, especially for the inexperienced.

I've been driving a long time and a lot of this is intuitive to me.
If you don't shift correctly, you generally feel it right away in the car's response.

 

I wiggle too. Never thought much of it, so I appreciate the counterpoint. Thanks Capt.

Seems like there's a lot of variance to the advice being given.

 

This thread is funny. Might as well ask everyone the best way to cook a steak, Apple or Microsoft, or the best brand of beer. Never gonna get a consensus.

My advice: Get a Whalen!

 

Stalling out due to lack of input but also uses more gas due to not enough rpms hmmm scratching my head real hard here...something in that must have passed me by...

 

Because the non-sport mapping is so dead, one will start out and fail to provide enough gas to keep the rpm's up. Not a major issue out in the country all alone. But throw some traffic in the mix - like an approaching vehicle, and suddenly one has to go ahead and really mash on the gas in a bit of panic. In the end, using more gas than was really necessary if one had not been using the unresponsive non-sport mode.

Ultimately, there is no point in describing the two modes as over- or under-sensitive. Those are subjective descriptions that will vary from driver to driver. One should try both and then decide which feels right for them and which one provides the level of throttle control they prefer.

 

I was going to ask about this!!
I thought manual trans cars didn't suffer from power sag with the A/C on? The CprS def does! It's like night and day Using the sport button helps get it back, but still, if I have it on while accelerating and turn if off it's like boost comes back twice as much.

Can I ask you guys to post up what you feel is the normal speed range for each gear? I'd just like to know how others drive for their environment. Or do you guys basically just let the boost flow and decide, you've reached the speed limit, let's back it down a bit lol?
example;
1st - 20mph
2nd - 40mph etc

 

I think what is meant here is after your moving forward, not from a standing start.

 

I usually listen out for when to shift. When driving normally, I shift around 30mph for 3rd gear, 40ish for 4th, and so on, which usually ends up being around 2800 to 3000 rpm. When driving in a more spirited style, I end up shifting around 3500 to 4000. I have only been driving a manual for a few months though, so I hope this is good technique.

 

When to shift is a question that has very few wrong answers and very many right ones.

For instance, if you're trying for maximum fuel economy, you shift at about 2000 RPM.

For best acceleration, you shift at the red-line.

As long as you don't grind the gears and you don't slip the clutch (except when you are first getting rolling), it's all good.

 

We might be getting slightly off-topic here, but as for cruising RPMs, as a member of the

"always be in the right gear for anything they throw at you"

club, I like 2800-3000 RPMs for general cruising.

When I first got the car (an R53), I thought it made sense to cruise at around 2200 RPMs, like the last (other brand name) manual car I had. Unfortunately, this R53 is completely GUTLESS at 2200 RPMs. Quick acceleration is not possible at all at this RPM without a downshift (which violates the above-mentioned club rules). So, while keeping track of my gas mileage, I let my shift point and cruise RPM drift upwards until I felt comfortable with the general responsiveness of the car. I settled at shifting around 32-3400 RPMs and cruising around 28-3000 RPMs.

And guess what? The car doesn't care, it responds nicely to a slight press on the throttle, and I see no difference in gas mileage.

As a side note, I think it is interesting that when I am cruising on the highway in 6th gear, I am (usually) at 3200 RPMs.

Your mileage may vary, and I understand the second generation MINIs are more responsive at lower RPMs.

 

Reason I asked is because I spend most of my time in 3rd gear at about 50-65KPH(30-40mph). I really just want to know if this can be harmful to the turbo for going so slow. At that speed in 3rd I'm usually revving around 2400-3000rpm. Take note that this speed range is already breaking the island's ancient speed limit, so being in 4th at anything above 2500 will have me paying stupidly priced fines. I must say though, in 4th 120MPH(193kph) comes up quick and feels great

 

O.M.G. Having a less than 65 kph speed limit in a MINI would make me cry.

 

Your key fob knows.
(Edited - never mind!)

 

Tattle-tale key fobs? Was not aware that they recorded anything except preferences and such.

Mine rarely hits the dash (Comfort Access) so perhaps it's not remembering much.

 

Totally off-topic, but +100 to this.

 

Site guideline #5

Please no more mention of excessive speed.

I won't close the thread though, in case someone else wants to talk about shift points or offer anymore advice on manual driving. But I think more than enough advice has been offered.

 

I usually opt for the highest gear that still works without a strain.

On my MCS, that can be 5th at 40, level terrain.

Having driven 4-cyl cars for so many years, the tractability of the modern ones is really amazing, whether the 2.3L in our Mazda 5 or the 1.6T in my MINI.

I'll admit to forgetting about 6th a lot of the time, however. First 6MT car I've owned. OTOH, in the Mazda 5 I'm reaching for (non-existent) 6th all the time.

 

I have heard that they record over-revving, but don't know if that's really true.
I shift before going too high on the RPMs, so haven't encountered that at the dealer, it the fob does actually record such things.

 

Oops...sorry about that. I edited my original post to comply.

 

So no answers on whether or not it's a bad thing to be in 3rd most of the time cruising at what you guys would consider parking lot speeds?

 

Running between 2500 - 3000 rpm will not hurt anything. So 3rd for those speeds is fine.

 

There's no right RPM range for shifting. It completely depends on your engine and your model. My '11 S Countryman can shift very happily around 2100 RPM for smooth acceleration to speed. If I want to roar up a highway ramp, I'll shift my R60 in the 3000-4000 RPM band. I borrowed a '12 Cooper with conventional aspiration, and it was an old lady car if I shifted at that point when getting on the highway. It was a much happier beast at 3500 for typical accelerating, and I worked in the band closer to the redline when I wanted a quick 0-60.

As far as clutching, a good general rule is to spend as little time as possible with the clutch in. I don't think it's a particularly big deal if you have the clutch in at stoplights vs. taking it out of gear and then putting it back in when the light turns. But I do think it's wise to get your shifts as swift as possible and to minimize the time you spend with the clutch partway in.

That includes getting it into 1st. If you need more acceleration, you're going to be slipping for longer because if you get the clutch fully out and the engine's at 1100 RPM, you're not going to have much power from the engine yet. So if you're in traffic, you might do that, but if you're taking off from a light up an onramp, you're going to slip for longer so you're not locking the engine and the wheels together at a slow speed. The exact range depends on your engine, but all engines have a range where they have good torque, and it's not at the lowest RPMs.

After first, though, your object is to get the RPMs high enough in your current gear that you can match the RPMs in the next gear. So, for example, you take it in 1st gear to 3000 RPM. Now you want to shift to second. Put in the clutch, move the stick to 2nd, and as you're taking out the clutch, use the throttle to get the revs to around 2500, so the wheel speed and the engine speed match up nicely.

That's essentially the same concept to the idea of the clutch pedal and the throttle pedal being on a pulley, but much more fine-tuned. You're not just throttling and releasing the clutch simultaneously. You're matching the engine speed to the road speed through the ratio of the particular gear. A closer match means a smoother shift, less wear on the clutch, and quicker power delivery from the engine. Do it well, and you have the clutch down and up in a quick motion and no feeling of a clunk as you get it in.

Step one in my book is knowing your clutch's engagement point. There's a whole arc the pedal moves through when you depress and release, but there's a relatively short point somewhere in that arc (usually middle-ish) that matters. At the whole bottom part of the swing, the clutch isn't engaged, and at the whole top part, it is. The meaty part in the middle is what you really need to have a feel for.

Put the car in neutral in a parking lot. Put in the clutch. Put it in first. Without touching the throttle, slowly let the clutch out. When you feel it start to grab, that's the beginning of your engagement point. If you can learn that sweet spot, you can make your shifts, particularly your shifts into first, much more effective because you can rev up the engine with your right foot as you're bringing your left foot back to the sweet spot so you can dump exactly as much power as you want when you want it.

If it's a slow start from zero, you bring it up to 1000 RPMs and then smoothly slide the clutch through the engagement point as the car comes up to the road speed that matches 1000 RPMs. If you want a ton of power for a quick start, you bring the engine much higher and dump that power to the wheels a little more aggressively.

So, know your sweet spot, and spend as little time with the clutch there as possible.