So I was in an accident this week and my Clubman was beat up badly. The whole front end was smashed in. Hood bent way up, engine smashed in, bumper in half, grille completely smashed in, headlights destroyed, leaked a ton of black fluid, airbag deployed, wouldn't even move... You get the picture. Yes, I am without a scratch, and let me tell you that from a safety standpoint the car did it's job despite how it looks, but I'm quite upset at either losing the car or at the prospect of getting it back. I had just got it back from the dealership days before just as the warranty expired and everything was sorted and I'm convinced I would have had a very problem-free car from there on. Anyway, too late for that so time to move on.


So while I as of yet don't know the final verdict, here is what insurance is telling me. They valued the vehicle at $20,000, the estimated work at this point is just over $10,000 and the scrap value is $3000 something. So at this point they want to take it apart and see if there is anything else they can't see before they make a final verdict. I've bluebooked it online and the private party value in excellent condition is $18,854 while the trade-in value in excellent condition is only $16,344. So a few things:


1 Is the insurance company over-valuing the car? On one side, it would help me because I'd get more if they total it, right? On the flip side though, it gives them more room to just say "fix it." I'm definitely concerned the car won't be the same and I could easily have any number of issues going forward. Of course this day and age they might well be able to fix it and I don't have a single issue. Still while I wasn't planning on getting a new vehicle any time soon, I'd rather be in this situation and get a new Mini rather than have to chance it with the fixed car.


2 Do I have any sort of option here? I'm guessing I don't. I mean I can't just say "total it" and let's move forward. Still can I challenge them on their valuation of the car if they say it's better to fix it?


3 In the heat of the moment, while I was literally at the side of the freeway, I had to decide where to have the car towed and which insurance company preferred auto center to have them tow it to. So within less than 12 hours of that I decided "you know, I need to call the dealership and see who they use." So after sorting that out, it turned out that the place the dealership uses is also a preferred auto center of my insurance company. So I contacted the insurance company immediately saying I'd pay to have it towed there instead as I'd want them to do the work. They're fine with that, but the intial shop is going to tear it down. Doesn't it make more sense for them to have me get it the shop I prefer before they tear it down? I mean I'd be out the towing cost, but I'm worried after they tear it down the insurance will say something about getting back together to get it to the other shop.



So sorry for the long post, but I was wondering if anyone had any advice on these points.

 

I don't have much experience with "totaled" anything, but I did want to say, sorry about your MINI.

In this statement you are totally correct it makes no sense for a shop to tear down a car they will not see through to the end of repair, what/when are they going to transfer the car to the next body shop...in boxes?? That would be my concern, I would immediately contact, or better yet make a visit to said body shop and demand that they stop the tear down immediately, summon a tow truck immediately as well...watch as your MINI is loaded and off to it's "fix it" place!!

 

At least in California, you have the right to take it to any body shop you want. You can argue valuation (I'm currently arguing valuation of my classic 1973 that was totaled). A vehicle is normally totaled when repair cost is 80%+ of total value because more is often found during repair.

If the insurance company has this current body shop tear it down, then the insurance should be on the hook to put it back together.

Of course, I'm no lawyer, but have experienced this before. Good luck and sorry to hear about your Mini!

 

sorry to hear about your MINI.

i say get to the shop your mini is located at, stop any tear down, and get it to the shop of your choosing.

if this shop starts the tear down you will be hard pressed to get them to put it back together and bring it to the preffered location. plus all inusrance estimates will be based on their valuation not the MINI dealer's prefferred shop.

 

Everything should be able to be fixed. Even if the accident took out motor supports. However, if it got into the Turbo and Turbo oil line, or cracked the block - that's another story. Another important question is can you live with the fact the car will be worth a fraction of what you can get for it selling it outright after its repaired.

Be prepared for a disappointment with what the insurance company will offer you if they want to total it.

I just went thru the same thing about 3 months ago. Mine was repaired.

 

Thanks for all the sentiments folks, it's greatly appreciated.

I actually saw it yesterday afternoon less than an hour before the shop closed and they had yet to start any work on it. I left a message at the shop and with my claims agent and just need to email the shop as well. Of course I'll also call first thing Monday AM.

Well sorry to hear that I'm not the only one with bad luck. Two questions for you though:

1 So dumbest question in the World, are you saying they wouldn't give me the value of the vehicle if they scrapped it?

2 How did yours turn out? I know it's been 3 months, but any issues, rattles, etc?

 

Here's a photo from phone.

 

so most insurance companies work funny, unless you just happened to have your car professionally appraised minutes before the unfortunate accident you could have some trouble.

basically the insurance company will give a value of the car say, $20k

then they will deduct for use, dents, etc usual wear and tear and end up with what they are willing to offer you. that amount usually fits with what you would get if selling it private party/wholesale in current market conditions.

only a very few companies give you full replacement value of a vehicle and only if you have that as an option on your insurance.


if repaired your car while it will be working and like new for you is now worth about half as much to any person looking to buy it when you sell it.

 

I believe he means the value of your vehicle, once repaired, is going to be greatly reduced once it's had such a major repair. If you decide to sell it outright in the future after having such a bad accident and large repair job, you're going to have to disclose that to a potential buyer (where I live, it's any repair over $2k, legally must be disclosed.) and it's going to be a tough sell, and you're not going to get as much for it as you would for an un-crashed MINI.

 

Thanks again for the replies.


Well if they did "total" it out and give me private party value I'd take that. I mean you can easily see (not in the photo) that the rest of the car is in impeccable condition.

Yeah, probably. I thought he meant "can you live with them giving you the scrap value".

Yeah, I understand that. Problem is I really won't have a choice. I don't think they'll give me an option A or an option B.

 

Blaugrana

>1 So dumbest question in the World, are you saying they wouldn't give me the value >of the vehicle if they scrapped it?

This has been my experience over the last 50 years:

Insurance companies will give you what 'they' value the car is worth. They try and negotiate 'your loss' to their advantage. As an example: if you have a car worth Kelly Blue Book value $15000 (that's with all documented dealer options - aftermarket parts are not included), take about 70% of the $15000. If repairs are above that net value - the car is totaled. Try and replace a car for $15K. Your results may vary but disappointment is a reality.

>2 How did yours turn out? I know it's been 3 months, but any issues, rattles, etc?

I was fortunate to live in an area where we have a body shop that handles race cars and high end automobiles. They are 1/2 mile from the Road Atlanta track. My car was taken immediately to that shop. Thank goodness it didn't go to a MINI dealer, or the insurance companies shop. The insurance Co was told to RR the engine and determine if the turbo took a hit or not. No issues were detected. Because of all the additional bracing and strut supports, my car was able to be repaired (it had over 8K of aftermarket parts already installed).....not by a average body shop, but by an expert who specializes in high end repairs. A month or so later, it's on the road again with no rattles. I've also had several runs on the twisties to confirm the car handles normally, corners nicely, stops extremely well with no alignment issues. The only issue I have is the inner felt wheel well on the repaired side is loose at the fog light hatch. It's time for the Dragon, and a HPDE at Road Atlanta.

Will I be able to sell the car for what is worth - no, its been repaired. Would I do the repair again - yes.

 

Tough little cars ! Glad your ok

Just based upon your description of damages ( image above not available ) with airbag deploy....would seem to me you have about $8K in just parts/paint there....and probably another $4K in labor to put it back together.

 

Who is your insurance company? Some companies will total if the repair estimate is 60%, 75% and 80%.

Request your mini be towed to the repair shop of your choice. If the shop it is setting at knows they will not be doing the repairs they may not do a complete estimate and under value the repairs. If the mini is not totalled and then towed to the other shop there could be missing parts.

With a major repair there will be Diminished Value as the accident will show up on CarFax, etc.

Do some research on Craigslist, Cars.com and Autotrader.com and see what Mini's are selling for the same year, model and mileage as yours. If the insurance gives you a lower settlement than you believe is accurate, ask them to give you alist of 3 or 4 Mini's just like your in the area so you can go look at them.

I have owned a body shop and am currently in the insurance business, so let me know any questions you have.

Garry
2002 Mini
107k
Black w/Aero Package

 

Hi and thanks again for the reply.

1 Well they told me $20,000, so maybe that's where the 70% is going to come in. I thought $20,000 seemed high. At $20,000 they'd be able to do the repairs (which is why I figured they went so high), but at $14,000 it'll be come interesting I'm guessing.

2 So you said NOT to the dealership? Mine is just how I bought it off the lot, nothing additional done to it. I was thinking the dealership, which is on the insurance company's list, would be the best option for me since they likely know the car better than anyone else locally. It's actually another dealership under the same ownership, a Mercedes dealership, that handles this sort of work for the other dealership. I don't think we've got a lot of options here locally in Milwaukee.

I'm totally fine with a repair if it comes out. I mean I'm guessing they'd totally replace the engine as well.

BTW, what specifically should I have them look at? I assume:

-engine and turbo

Anything else. It was a front end collision. I'll try that pic again:

 

I haven't seen anything official and I don't know that it included labor, but the place that has it, without touching, has said $10,000. Pics now attached to previous post.

 

Yeah, I think you'll be looking at much more than $10000. I had a front end collision that didn't even look that bad, and it was nearly $10000 to repair (total).

Good luck.

 

Blaugrana - For my taste, I am not partial to dealerships, in general, for anything except warranry repairs. Ask for opinions about repair shops from your MINI Peeps in town. Question the insurance adjuster about what happens if they find damage after the shop starts repair. Supplements are normal. Other than that, sit back and wait for a response from the adjuster.

 

I want to clear something up about insurance. A lot of confusion it seems.

The insurance typically gives you actual cash value for a car. This is not based on any hypothetical situations such as KBB value or what kind of deal you'd get from your dealership. It is based on the real MSRP of a new car, less the financial and statistical depreciation of the car.

Example, a brand new '13 MCCS with the same options BLAUGRANA has came to about $31,500 MSRP on MiniUSA.com. Then, we subtract depreciation. Statistically a car's life is about 10 years. This one was an '09, so 4 years into its depreciation. So, we take 31,500 divide by 10 and get $3150. Then, 3150 x 4 = $12,600. $31,500 (replacement cost) - $12,600 (depreciation) = $18,900.

There are MANY other factors to account in depreciation such as opportunity, investment value, etc. Your insurance company knows their ****, it just seems like a good deal to have your car totaled because we account for a few things that pretend to be in our favor - we don't pay MSRP in most cases, and we definitely don't get KBB value in most cases (especially if a car is wrecked).

To be estimated at $20,000 is actually pretty close. However, with bags deployed and engine damage... let the insurance company take the car and you can get something new.

Also note that you won't get ANYTHING near KBB value for your wrecked car should you go to sell it later on. I wouldn't even count on expecting even 50% of KBB value of the car. I don't know many people willing to purchase a car with a crash history. Protect yourself in this and take the money to get a replacement vehicle.

 

Yes, but how do I do this? Isn't it their choice??? Trust me, at this point this is what I want to do.

 

When our truck got totaled, our insurance

 

Sorry, not used to posting from a cell phone. Our insurance company (Mercury) gave us the actual cost of replacing it, if we walked onto a lot and bought a comparable truck. They linked to actual sales listings in our area, and gave us a LOT more than we expected to get, because trucks like that are hard to find. We didn't expect that.
If they want to fix it, you can argue diminished value, since if you go to sell it, the crash will be a big factor. Work with your claims adjuster on it!

 

I was involved in an accident a couple months ago, and my insurance company declared the car a total loss. Here's my $0.02:

1) KBB private party value was ~$20.5k. My insurance valued the car at ~$22.5, plus they included state sales tax (based on the value) and unused (prorated) vehicle license fees. Additionally, I got back some money for new tires I had just put on as well as for some aftermarket parts. SCORE!!

2) My accident occurred after work during rush hour. The police called for the tow truck. For some reason, the tow truck turned out to be a flat bed (more expensive) which came from two cities away. According to the towing company, they charge from the time they leave base to the time they return. So, the roundtrip to my preferred body shop took several hours total. My insurance initially said they would only pay half of the towing fee. They said I should've had the car towed instead to the THEIR nearest preferred body shop. I reminded them that the law says I have a choice of any body shop I choose (which was only ~30miles away). I also stated that, on one occasion, my friend was stranded out in the boonies over a hundred miles away and had his car towed to his preferred body shop. His insurance paid the entire towing fee (which was more than mine), no questions asked. After hearing this my insurance finally agreed to cover my entire towing fee. This isn't exactly your situation, but the lesson is to fight for what you want! Don't be afraid to ask! Don't let the insurance screw you.

3) Are you on good terms with your preferred body shop? Definitely bring your car there and have THEM tear it down to verify any and all possible damage before any repairs are started. This is especially important when the damage is close to the total limit. Even a slight scratch may require complete replacement of that particular part (in my case, the fuel tank). Keep in mind that body shops are a business. Some body shop operators will start repairing the car without doing a complete inspection. Then later on, they will uncover additional damage (which would have already pushed your car over the total limit!). By that time, however, repairs have already started, and the insurance company has two options: (A) pay the body shop for the work that has already been done on the car AND pay you the totaled vehicle amount; or (B) let the body shop continue repairs. What do you think will happen? Answer B is often the financially-sound choice for the insurance company. In my case, the initial estimate was almost at the total limit. After some additional tear down, the damage found was over the limit, and the car was declared a total loss. Thank goodness my body shop helped me through this. They could've easily started repairs immediately after the initial estimate, and then I would've been screwed, stuck with a repaired car I don't want.

GOOD LUCK!

 

Well I'm only dealing with the agent at this point. I'll definitely have to challenge them a bit.

Some great stuff, thanks.

1 I literally had brake and brake pad work done less a week before the accident. You think they'd cover that too?

2 Well I have told the insurance agent I've been dealing with that I want another body shop to work on it and he said that was fine, yet he's the same guy who thinks the current shop should tear it down first. So I called him Saturday AM (not expecting a call back on the weekend) and then this morning, still haven't heard back from him. I did get the body shop to not start on it yet though.

3 I have no experience with my preferred shop. It's only my preferred shop because it's a sister dealership (a Mercedes dealership) that does the work for my Mini dealership. I will definitely contact them though and make sure they do a full inspection and complete tear down before staring any work. I'll be communicating that to the insurance agent too.

Anyway, I just sit wait, like the car, until this guy calls me back.

 

I had new brake pads put on shortly before the accident as well, but my insurance didn't count it. According to them, only items that "add to the value of the car" will be counted. They did, however, count my new tires and some, but not all, of the aftermarket parts. Not exactly sure how they decide. My suggestion is to submit as many receipts you have and see what the insurance says. Remember, all of this pertains after your car has been deemed a total loss.

 

Glad you are okay, sorry your MINI got hurt.

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