Okay, I'm not looking for a lecture on why I SHOULDN'T disconnect my airbags. I'm only looking for advice from people (racers, vertically challenged people, the elderly, and folks who don't want permanent hearing loss (permanent ringing in your ears and a loss of high frequency - very common), etc.) who have done this modification. I would like to (am going to) do this mod to my MINI when it arrives and would like to know what it takes to do this without the air bag light flashing continuously. I'm not opposed to removing 100% of the airbag paraphenalia (like I did in my Miata) and as a matter of fact would like to do so for lighter weight.

Has anyone done this mod without getting the flashing airbag light and/or computer codes thrown? In my Miata I had to remove the airbag lamp, computer, and wiring harness. Is this similiar to the MINI?

Thanks for your advice,
DesignIt

 

>>Okay, I'm not looking for a lecture on why I SHOULDN'T disconnect my airbags. I'm only looking for advice from people (racers, vertically challenged people, the elderly, and folks who don't want permanent hearing loss (permanent ringing in your ears and a loss of high frequency - very common), etc.) who have done this modification.

>>Thanks for your advice,
>>DesignIt


It's your car so obviously you can do anything you want to it but I'm curious, which of the above list of people do you fit?

I realize that this may be none of my business but if it's the fear of hearing loss should the air bags go off I'd like to remind you that the dead don't hear very well either, they just don't complain.

Rip everything out and then take the flashing bulb out and throw it away.

I assume you plan on keeping the car forever?

You're welcome,

R.E.

 

Are you planning on installing a roll cage? I wouldn't want to ride in an airbag less mini without a roll cage

 

Hate to disapoint you but maybe you should check with your insurance company (and your local law enforcement) prior to this action. Also if, heaven forbid, someone was killed in your car or badly injured you MAY be brought up on charges. Please check before doing anything so you know the good (weight loss?) and the bad of doing it. if you do it I'm sure you can sell the airbags for enough to buy a rollcage.

Earl

 

the airbags saved me in my first MINI - and I didn't suffer any hearing loss (what?!

Any aftermarket MINI supplier that sells racing buckets should be able to tell you how to overcome the lack of airbags.

 

As far as the airbag light all you'll have to do is remove the bulb from it's socket.

As mentioned already, you'll have a tough time selling the car without them and I think they are mandated by law to be in any newer car on the road, so, as also mentioned, there could be liabilty problems.

That said, I've driven for about 35 years now, putting on well over a million miles on various cars and bikes. The MINI is the first car I've ever owned with airbags. They've proven to save lives and reduce injury in accidents, but at the same time I don't think they are a necessary part of the driving experience. Thousands of people may have avoided injury or death with them, but millions have never been in the position to use them. It's your life, go for it!

 

Why not take out the seat belts too! This would really liven up the crash scene. Should you have an accident with a passanger in you car with injuries, you will be liable as you knowingly altered the safty features of the vehicle. Call your insurance company as well. They also will not pay for damages when they discover what you have done. Please think about it.

 

>>Why not take out the seat belts too!<< :smile: ) so please don't react as if I am. My father is virtually deaf from the sound of a single gunshot ( that happened when he was a child. His medical condition is called tinnitus, which is not a lack of hearing, but rather a permanent, extremenly loud ringing or screaming sound (some sufferers liken it to the sound of sheet metal being cut by a tablesaw) inside his ears. This is caused by the sensitve hairs in the ears being broken or damaged. It is so loud that he cannot hear the phone ring. Before you start slinging insults, imagine living 24/7 with the sound of cutting sheetmetal being played at loud volumes inside your ears. Imagine trying to sleep with that, because you cannot turn it off. I would have to say that this disability severely affected the quality of my Dad's life (and those of us around him who could not always communicate with him). Unfortunately sensitive ears seem to be hereditary, and go hand in hand with how well you can hear to begin with. It sucks, but I already have minor tinnitus from a car backfire. This puts me even more at risk.
as for my vertically challenged wife, she is hard pressed to get the required 12" (I believe this is recommended by the NHTSA) away from the steering wheel and still safely depress the clutch pedal.

Everyone has to choose their own risks, but personally I don't feel frightened by driving a car without airbags. If I was, I would never have taken my '29 Model A out of the garage. :smile:

Thanks,
DesignIt

_________________
Waiting on an Indi Blue S currently aboard the Jingu Maru (what the heck kinda name is that?)

 

I disconnected the airbag in my last bmw, simply because the airbag light was flashing, and I didn't want to spend the money to fix it.I unplugged the box at the steering column, unplugged the sensors,the airbag itself,and took the bulb out of the cluster.But there was an internal bulb in the cluster above the one I took out.So it still flashed.I then stuck a plug into the bulb socket and solved the problem.But the mini has six airbags, and it's an obd2 car.I wouldn't be surprised if the airbags were somehow connected the engine management.

 

I agree with DesignIt.

So many times we are forced by the government for some new safety feature, which on paper appears to look good, but in truth has little to no affect on safety. Most of these are created based on a very slim vocal minority. For example, one person somewhere hit his steering wheel and died, 20/20 did a special, it was all in the newspapers the next days, Senators came out and spoke against it, it became law. And now we are doing something because how dare a single person die if it could have been avoided. The thinking that if you don't have airbags you are just putting yourself at risk and you might as well write your own death certificate, is the same thinking that the Hummer people have for the people who purchase Mini's. I don't know how many people have told me that I am driving in a death trap. The fact that you drive in a small car does not mean you are less safe, anymore than an airbag makes you more safe. In fact, there are more examples of people being killed by airbags than being saved. I thought I saw somewhere that there has never been a proven case of a life being saved by an airbag. I would rather have the money spent in passive safety features built into the structure of the automobile than a kevlar bag being shot at my face near the speed of sound, suffering possible burn marks and loss of hearing.

Anyway, enough said. If it is legal and DesignIt wants to do it. He should be allowed to do it.

 

Pretty sure the Italian Job MINIs didn't have airbags...you can always see that the light is on when they film from the trunk...

 

In fact, there are more examples of people being killed by airbags than being saved. I thought I saw somewhere that there has never been a proven case of a life being saved by an airbag.<<


I don't have any statistics but common sense says the first sentence isn't true. About the second sentence, how are you going to "prove" the airbag saved a life? If the person survived with the airbags help are you going to have them re-run the same accident without the bags to see if they would have died?

I assume you have disabled your airbags and seatbelts, (never know when you'll get trapped by the seatbelts and burn or drown).

Darn government intervention trying to save lives.....don't they realize there's an overpopulation problem?

R.E.

 

well not from personal experience..i am sure the sound of metal kissing metal is louder than an exploding airbag

 

more on the actual topic:

I believe there are shorting harnesses that come with some sport seats, that fool the computer into thinking that the airbags are still there. I'd do some research on that. (Like JCW's seats)

 

>>well not from personal experience..i am sure the sound of metal kissing metal is louder than an exploding airbag

ecl3x,
I hope I never experience either one. Here's the scoop from the SAE organization:

"Noise associated with airbag deployment varies with the type of airbag. Deployment of a driver side only airbag will generate mean peak sound pressure level (SPL) of approximately 160 dB, a passenger side only airbag will generate mean peak SPL of 168 dB and dual airbags create a mean peak SPL of 170 dB. Side airbags available as optional equipment in some vehicles generate a mean peak SPL of 178 dB. The SPL generated by a motor vehicle accident is 140 dB. The pain threshold from noise is about 140 dB. It was previously reported that a single exposure to an SPL of 140 dB in a cordless telephone was responsible for permanent severe hearing loss in several individuals"

With side airbags the typical SPL is actually 38 dBs higher than the colision itself.

Here's a chart that I found refering to dB levels of different sounds: http://www.customaudiodesigns.co.uk/...s/decibels.htm See where I'm coming from on this?

 

178 decibels??!! HOLY CRAP, that's loud. Just for some perspective, decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale (like the Richter scale for earthquakes), which means that adding 10dBs is equivalent to multiplying the sound by ten. 90 dB is 10 times louder than 80 dB. 120 dB is a really loud rock concert at close range. So, if an accident creates an instantaneous noise level of 140 dB (already amazingly loud - I'm not so sure I believe that one) and the airbags add 38 dBs, that means that the accident is nearly 10,000 times as loud when multiple airbags are deployed. That is absolutely incredible. I'm not removing the airbags from my car, but that is one hell of a sobering factoid.

 

it saved this guy and two of his passengers they slid into a wall going into a hairpin turn.

 

I don't disagree with having airbags, and if you want one in your car, then go ahead and have one. But with proof from the Insurance Insitute for Highway Safety showing that Over 200 people have been killed by airbags, over 300,000 have been injured by airbags, sometimes with devastating consequences such as paralysis. Growing numbers of studies showing hearing loss from airbags. Experts and lawmakers calling for changes to airbags, we should be allowed to make a choice to turnoff the airbags. Why should we be mandated by government to trade one risk for the other.

For those who are so safety conscience who feel everyone needs to be forced to use airbags, why did you purchase a Mini? Every large government study has shown that you have twice the chance of being injured or dying in a smaller vehicle than a larger one. We can debate about size, but since the Mini is the smallest vehicle on the market, then it is pretty safe to say that we are at the low end. So most any small SUV would significantly improve our chances.

To go back on my previous statement (sorry I didn't proofread what I wrote and someone was talking to me). Airbags have been shown to reduce about 10% of deaths, but driving a larger vehicle can reduce my chance of death by 50%. I am not necessarily against airbags. I just don't think they are infallible and we should be given the choice to turn them off, just as we are given the choice to choose a vehicle we like regardless of the safety rating.

 

Being able to turn off the airbag reminds me of getting into a friends new pickup a few years ago. Pickups had, (and I guess still do), a switch to turn of the passenger side airbag in case an infant seat was there. We got in the truck and he looked over at me and flipped the switch to "off". He said, "hey, it cost a lot of money to get those airbags replaced". Guess I wasn't worth the cost of a new airbag.............well, it was pretty funny at the time. :smile: :smile:

About buying my MINI....I was definately more, not less, likely to buy it because of the six airbags it has. As a manner of fact, I don't think they could sell more than a handful if they didn't have airbags, even if it was legal to sell them without bags.

As far as the small car safety issue, I rode motorcycles for 40 years, the MINI's safety margin in an accident looks pretty good comparatively speaking.

R.E.

 

>>>This puts me even more at risk. as for my vertically challenged wife, she is hard pressed to get the required 12" (I believe this is recommended by the NHTSA)>>>

Whoa Nellie!!

Don't let it get out that they're required to get 12" or else us regular joes haven't got a chance with the ladies.


Ken

 

>>Airbags have been shown to reduce about 10% of deaths, but driving a larger vehicle can reduce my chance of death by 50%.<<

Whoa, whoa. Where are you getting these numbers?!

 

As an Audiologist, a Mini owner and also a tinnitus sufferer, your statement regarding the hair cells and the inner ear being the origin of the tinnitus noise is incorrect. The actual mechanism for the noise is unknown (although the causes are well documented) Some research would suggest that the noise actually arises from the central auditory cortex. Regardless I sympathize with your grandfather. Regarding the airbags - your choice.

 

>>>>Airbags have been shown to reduce about 10% of deaths, but driving a larger vehicle can reduce my chance of death by 50%.<<
>>
>>Whoa, whoa. Where are you getting these numbers?!

The information is found here:

Airbags saving lives: http://www.highwaysafety.org/safety_.../airbags.htm#5
Although you can find this on a number of government sites. Depending on whether you are a passenger or a driver, seatbelt on or not, and depending on the study it is anywhere between 9%-14%. I said about 10%, because I am not sure the weighting of the numbers. If it was a perfect distribution than it would be 11.5%

Small cars vs. large cars safety:
http://www.hwysafety.org/srpdfs/sr3301.pdf
Here are some other studies from other government agencies or other countries showing up to 6 times greater rate of death between a smaller car hitting a larger car. This is far greater than the increase of safety of wearing both a seatbelt and an airbag. Since the Mini is the smallest automobile (http://www.forbes.com/2002/03/18/0318test_2.html), every other car is larger to some extent.
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/sfsc.htm
http://www.ministers.dotars.gov.au/r...ber/b18_99.htm
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/...te/808570.html
http://www.kirotv.com/consumer/2554583/detail.html
http://www.hwysafety.org/news_releas...8/pr021098.htm

All I am saying is that don't just take the fact that you have an airbag as meaning that you will always be better off in an accident. My mom was struck by a semi in her F150, and the only thing that saved her life was that she wasn't wearing her seat belt and her airbag didn't go off. It allowed her to fly to the other side of the car without being crushed by the semi. I know this is a very isolated case and overall airbags do save lives, but there are so many other factors as well and some that really outweigh an airbag. Again, we should be given the right to disable them.

 

I wonder when are we going to start driving bubbles (like hamsters)? I mean, the Mars lander inflated an airbag and bounced a few times on the surface. It worked fine. (Wonder if it would feel like being in a "Jupiter Jump?&quot

_________________
-goin440 IB/IB MC

 

I just want the "Crash Foam" from Demolition Man.

But I'm italian, and I have a fixation towards cannolis.