Hi

i've been tempting a set of racing seats for awhile now... i just want to ask a few quick questions

a) a very good friend of mine fears putting a racing seat on would, in his words "you'd lose the explosive seat belt tensioner in the buckle, which would make you hit the air bag harder if you get in an accident, or worse, hit the steering wheel before the airbag explodes", he followed up with this comment:"[font=Arial]in old cars...even if the tech is old...the basic safety principals aren't changed when a racing seat is installed...but newer cars...changing the seat makes sooo much difference. without the seat in there, the other safety things could actually end up hurting you more"

this is a very good car friend of mine, and notice his 'old school' words is because he drives an oldschool 82 skoda

is this a serious concern? im doin one sparco torino

b) if i do lose the airbag, and i get into an accident, anyone see that with the race seat would kill me, whereas if i kept the stock seat, the airbag would deploy and save me? would losing the side airbag be an impact to safety?

c)i surely hope the sparco torino won't force me to put on a cage.. as i dont intend to.. anyone have info regarding this?

d) would just one seat make it look out of place?

thanks for any comments!

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I use the Milano with Schroth. The key is Schroth's design which connects to factory point (with tensioner). My guess is that even if you use traditional racing harness which is properly anchored, you likely will never contact the airbag whether it deploys or not. I've yet to see a race car with airbags:smile:

 

Why dont you just get safety harnesses that go through the seat. Your head,let alone your body, aint going anywhere.

 

I want a race seat I can put in for track days only ...

and then swap back to the stock, heated seats

 

the problem with putting in a scroth is that i consistently have at least 3 people in the car... if its just me then yeah i'd put in a scroth, but since i sometimes do have more than 2 people in the car i'd like to use factory seat belts...

unless someone has a better idea

no body has addressed the airbag concern yet.... any engineers here?

 

But that's the advantage of the Schroth...I can remove both in less than a minute:smile:

 

Yes, I do that as well !!!

 

Remember!! You must have two of the same seats in your car if you have an instructor. This goes with seat belts also. So just putting in one seat will be a problem with any BMWCCA and some other groups.



Maybe it's because I'm older and air bags are relatively new to me, but I have little fear that my seat air bag is no longer there. you still have the upper, curtain, side air bags to protect your head, which is the most important part for most of us.

I use race seats and have a full race six point harness system for each, but I do not use them for daily driving, only track days. Using any four point harness is a bit of a PIA as you upper body movement is rather restricted. Getting to the radio, climate controls, your pocket for change at a toll can't be done unless you loosen or unclip yourself.

Again, when I used to use the Schroths, I only used them track days. The factory belt is fine on the street.

 

Just in case some of you are using a harness without a rollbar, I was always told that was not safe to do so since you'd be strapped in and the roof would snap your neck on rollover. I'm sure most of you do have rollbars, but I figured I'd just throw that info out in case anyone didn't know. Who knows, maybe I was told wrong though.

 

I would love to hear more about this as I am looking into the Sparcos.

When you are driving on the street you put the stock seat bels back in and it only takes a minute?

I have never driven a car on the street with a racing harness and have concerns about comfort and mobility?

Also, I have a questionable back and wonder about not being able to shift position slightly on long drives?

 

Gosh...if you manage to crush your roof in such a horrific crash, I doubt you'd have the strength to resist the G-forces and pull your melon out of the way...good luck

 

agreed on that one, the seat mounted air bag is utterly useless and is what i blame for the two broken ribs that i received from slamming my car into a guard rail at 45mph

 

OUCH

 

ok, the airbag issue is one i can address as i own a company that specializes in repair of airbag systems. the seat bags were NEVER required by the us dot (only required bags are the stg wheel and dash bags) and the head bags are not required either, for that matter. in addition, imho, the seat bags are worthless. the head bags, however, do a good job of saving your noggin from whackin the door glass/pillars-a MAJOR CAUSE of life ending injuries. as for the pre tensioner in the buckles-retain them if you can and are over 150 lbs. the pretensioners account for "belt stretch" when a larger person hits the locked belt in an accident. belt stretch with a 200lb person is typically 1-2.5 inches and the pretensioners were designed to reverse that movement. if you are a hundred pounds, no big deal, belt stretch in a frontal impact is minimal. a good 4-5-6 point racing harness, used properly, is better than any of this stuff-but the words USED PROPERLY are key here, and they are a pita on the street as mentioned above in an earlier post. so the tendency if you are using them on the street is to use them loose so you CAN reach the radio, etc-very dangerous!!! because with them loose, no ratchet lock and pretensioner in the system as with the oem belts, you have a good chance of greater injury in an accident as you can slam forward against the loose belts, causing internal injuries when your organs make the sudden stop at the end of the slack in the belts. what are you guys doing when you remove the seats with the bag plug? just letting your airbag lights stay on? im interested to know, as there is a way around that too unless you all have worked that out. when you plug em backin, does the light go out? it shouldnt, according to what ive learned about this cars system, it should need to be reset with a scan tool.

 

thanks for the insight people, i think i feel more comfortable doin the race seats now...

 

If you do a search on this forum you will find the exact 'How to" on this subject. All it requires is to have a resistor (size will be in the search) plugged into the air bag wire under the seat. Very simple to do, but you need to follow procedure or else the light will come on. I believe it can only be turned of by the dealer and they won't do so if the factory seats are not in.

 

seriously thanks scott....some good info there

 

3 ohm resistor. Radio Shack does not carry them. Specialty electronics stores do (ABL).

 

No, I wasn't implying that you could pull your Noggen out of the way, but your body would be allowed to slouch with the factory belts, unlike what would happen with a race harness where the only thing that could bend would be your neck. Who knows, maybe I was told wrong and there is nothing to worry about here. Anyone know for sure? Maybe I'm thinking convertable harness with no rollbar. Thats probably where I was mislead.

 

No, you are correct. It's the general thinking among the track day host that 'shell' type race seats and race harnesses should be used only with roll bars. I do know that it's rarely objected too, but the concerns are there.

Worry is that if you are using a 'shell' type race seat that it cannot collapse backward like a folding seat can, thus leaving the upper body to take a full force blow.

Seats belts are a hard to figure out issue. Some BMWCCA clubs may start banning the Schroth harness as the feel that it is to easy to submarine in a collision. They prefer that the stock belt be used over a Schroth design. Go figure as the Schroth is the only aftermarket belt that the DMV accepts.


From what I have seen, it would have to be one hell of a collision to even be concerned about with the Mini. I have seen photos, some here, of Minis that have rolled over TWICE, and the roof it almost in perfect form.

 

Speaking as a Paramedic, I've yet to see injuries caused by an airbag (with the exception of friction deployment burns) that would not have been significantly greater without the airbag. This is of course a subjective judgement based on comparing mechanisms of force with other collisions and the injuries from those events.

I'm also curious about the basis of the seat being able to "fold back to decrease injury." If a seat is collapsed in a collision we are taught that this is a failure of the seat.
Not that this will prevent me from changing out my seats for something more sporting for the track; but it's a risk judgment.