> So do me a favor ... do it with 250lbs and tell me if you can notice a difference.

What you are missing is that we are talking about 40 pounds here NOT 250 pounds.

If you go back and read the first article, you'll find these gems.

1) "shaving off 40 is a very big improvement. "
2) "I can feel a definite difference in its acceleration and handling characteristics without all that dead weight. "

I think that they are BOTH BS.

 

I would say that shaving 40lbs is a big improvement and I don't doubt that at all.....but depends what you are trying to improve....in dropping the weight of the car it is a big improvement. The part about being able to feel it...well that depends on the driver....how good of a driver etc....could I notice it on the street - most likely not, but on a track, I'm guessing my timesheet would notice it....if the poster is a very good driver(IE lots of race car experience) then I wouldn't doubt that they can notice a difference and I don't doubt that a person could notice this difference....but I would prolly say that the "average" driver would not be able to notice a difference...and just because you can't notice a difference doesn't mean others can't, just means you aren't as well in tune with your car as others....don't take that the wrong way as above I said I doubt I could notice it on the steet either.

 

>>I would say that shaving 40lbs is a big improvement and I don't doubt that at all.

Well, here's my problem.

You say "and I don't doubt that at all.", but why don't you doubt it?
Because it's 40 pounds? And 40 is a bigger number than let's say 10 pounds?

Then you go on to say that you probably couldn't tell the difference
on the street.

Maybe I have a different definition of "big improvement"?

I think that anything that I can't tell the difference can't be
considered a "big improvement" can it?



_________________
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I stated that I felt it was a big improvment in getting the weight of the car lower....as with most things that you could do and keep the car streetable or reasonable in most people's opinion about 200lbs is the max...I wouldn't consider what I want to do with my car to be reasonable to most people...hehe.

but there is more then one way to measure big improvement....removing 1/5th of the reasonable weight in my book is a big improvement. Is it a big improvement in 0-60 times...no....it just all depends on what your goals are with the modifications you are doing. To some a better sounding exhaust is a big improvement but might not add any HP/Torque.

So I think we agree...the weight is not going to be a huge difference in and of itself...but if your goal is to lighten your car it is a big improvement in the right direction.

Do we agree yet matey? :smile:

 

Trippy, get over it. It does make a difference. It might not make a difference to you, but it does make a difference to some of us. *I* can tell a difference between the weights. Just becuase you don't seem to think there will be doesn't negate the reality of the mod.

IE don't bash unless you try it and have the skills to appropriately disclose.

R

 

Well I do think that trippy is making a few good points....I'm going to make some assumptions about Trippy so if I'm wrong please correct me and don't take it the wrong way. But lets assume Trippy is an everyday driver with a great choice in cars...and not an avid racer or performance junky. Nothing wrong with that as most MINI owners prolly fit into that category. The fact that most people would not be able to tell the difference is a valid point and that for the everyday driver thinking their car is going to gain a second in 0-60 will be greatly dissapointed. Now put a seasoned autox'er or road racer in a car and I'm going to guess that 99 out of a 100 times they will be able to tell when the 40lbs is removed verse when it is not. It just all depends on how in tune with your car you are. Now for 99% of MINI owners the weakest performance part of the car is still the Driver and that no mod will make you micheal schumacher(awk...not that i would want to be...hehehe...GO KIMI).

There is a small percentage of MINI owners that this kit would truely be useful for, but there is a 2nd group that depending on what the install is like could be useful for as well - and that is for those that want more storage and don't use the rear seats...if this provides a sturdy surface it could be good and as a plus saving a little bit of weight.

 

>>IE don't bash unless you try it and have the skills to appropriately disclose.

If you are convinced that you can tell the difference, fine with me.

But the original poster is making claims of "Great performance
improvement"

Some of the readers here are not car experts like you, and could
have gotten the impression that this modification would actually
help their performance.

I'm just helping the 99% of the drivers out there that will se no
improvement from this change save a little bit of their money.

If you like it, buy it and be happy, but don't try and convince
everybody that the need this mod.

And trying to quash people that ask questions in this forum
is bad juju.

 

Trippy, no hard feelings were meant. But you seemed to be really bashing this and I wanted step in and let others know that it DOES make a difference. Again, maybe not to you, but to those of us that race, it really does make a noticeable difference.

:smile:

R

 

Trippy-
$150! I spent about $80ish for a custom brushed ****...

 

Trippy - I don't believe he said "Great Performance Improvement"...that is unless he has edited his original post....but I know what your getting at....I think we have pretty much beaten this one to death so let me sum this up and let me know Trippy and Davbret if you agree with my assumptions.

1) Weight Reduction is very important if your trying to get the last ounce out of your car and 40lbs is signifigant in the area of weight reduction

2) Will everyone notice this difference - NO, but for those that race, most will be able to notice it.

3) Will it drop your 0-60 time a full second - of course not.

 

>>If you go back and read the first article, you'll find these gems.
>>
>>1) "shaving off 40 is a very big improvement. "
>>2) "I can feel a definite difference in its acceleration and handling characteristics without all that dead weight. "


daMatta,

Man, dead horse is right on...

I agree with everything in your last post.

And I also again, disagree with "shaving off 40 is a very big improvement"

If it had said that 40 pounds in and of itself will make a very little
difference, but can be the beginning of big improvements, we would have
never had this thread last this long.

 

Yup, I agree DaMatta....

But I disagree with Trippy. 40lbs is a noticeable difference. It really, really is!! 5lbs, heck no, but 40? YES!!

But why trust me as I've actually done this. :smile:

R

 

>>DaMatta says: Will everyone notice this difference - NO
>>Davbret says:Yup, I agree DaMatta....

Well I guess we're in complete 100% agreement then.

As I said in the beginning. TRY IT!!!Davbret did and he's a believer.
I did an I'm not convinced.

Don't spend any money on this until YOU try it yourself.

_________________
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Hey Trippy - are you in business with Tatae or something? You've been pretty much the sole reason this post has been so popular and your actions will probably lead to several more of his kits being sold - pretty much becuase this would have died down like most announcements do within a couple of hours, but now it's been a couple of days and it's still kicking.

By the way Trippy quoting out of context or with selective hearing will not help your cause. Nothing against you, of course. I think you're probably a good guy. But manipulating people's words shouldn't be done like that. It should be done subtly, before they speak them.

 

*update???????????????????????*

 

This sounds really good, but can't do it until I retire and get a second car and relegate the MINI to my 2-seater hot rod. (7 more years -- woo hoo!)

 

I participate in track lapping sessions, driving school and Solo II events in Street mod class and for all of these I can remove my back seats.

Each seat back can come out via loosening a small bolt in the center on the floor between the seatbacks. This will allow the center attachment to free one side of the seat back then twist each seat back at an angle and pull out the bolt from the side attached to the fender wall- an angle works best.

Now pull up the bottom of the rear seat and pop off the four plastic clips. Now all that is left is the seat belt attachments in the middle which I use for my schroth harnesses.

I also remove my JL steathbox subwoofer and amp and cover the wire ends.

Next is a braille battery (20 pounds lighter than stock) and mounting bracket from Helix13.com ($200 for both).

 

Bump. Updates?

 

The first thing I did when I bought my MCS 2 years ago was to remove the rear seats. I coudn't imagine anyone except a small child wanting to sit in such a tight space and the issue of weight saving was important as I track my car. I made a custom cover out of fiberboard and had a local trim shop glue carpet on the top and bind the edges. It looks like it could have come from the factory. Bonus is the extra storage and I have my Schroth belts tucked under the cover for quick change at the track. The only drawback with removing the rear seats has been increased road noise and if you have an aftermarket exhaust system it can get very annoying at steady highway speeds. It's amazing how much noise the rear seats filter out. Like any modification- there is always a tradeoff.