My question - briefly - if a 2010 JCW with a N14 has a failing timing chain 12k miles after being replaced, is there damage to the engine? Is it low enough risk to be worth buying and repairing? Or would you walk away?

Details:

I walked away from this 2010 hardtop JCW with 86,484 miles today. I checked the VIN (WMWMF9C53ATF97883) and came across this listing for the car, at 74,200 miles, which said " I am the 2nd owner of this vehicle; [...] I had the timing chain tensioner and timing chain replaced by Mini of Alexandria last year as preventative maintenance, right before 70,000 miles."

Now with the 3rd owner in the CarFax, the timing chain is obviously failing. After idling for about 10 minutes it went away. But if the other ad is accurate, that means it's been about 12k miles and is already failing. The valve cover gasket is also leaking excessively, and I think the new owner installed a CAI (open to the engine bay) and exhaust.

The BIG problem - My scan tool showed the smooth-running values to be sporadic and WILDLY off. Each cylinder value was jumping around - there was no consistency.

https://imgur.com/a/Uy1K1m0

So ... Is the timing chain causing this issue? Or is it the CAI & exhaust? Or ... ?

Would replacing the timing chain completely eliminate the mis-fire issue, or does it point to other damage such as to the camshafts, valves, crank, etc? What would you do?

 

A poorly timed engine (which this sounds like) will be most likely be running retarded. This will produce high emissions and heat which will eventually take out the O2 sensors and Cat converter. Burnt valves perhaps if excessive. If you have your own toold and a work space if might be worth a punt at the right price. Just because it has the rattle does not mean that is the only problem though, HPFP could also give symptoms/misfire. It all comes down to how much cash you can get knocked off to balance the work involved. I think that is a 'project' car you are looking at. Mind you, all older Minis are project cars :-)

 

Running retarded happens automatically with the ECU changing the timing like it does for knock, right? Or is that just a symptom caused by the timing chain issues?

I do have a garage and almost all the tools. I would need to buy the flywheel pin thing, and the camshaft lock tool - I think that's the only Mini-specific tools needed?

I didn't think to check if HPFP was another issue. Oh well.



I think you're absolutely right, and appreciate the confirmation. The car is being sold as a consignment. The salesman initially told me he didn't know much about the car, the seller, the vehicle condition and so forth. After revealing all the issues, I suggested he get the owner to fix it or drop the price. The sales guy then said he knew the seller very well and knew he would not drop the price at all. Then I looked at the Carfax again and noticed the dealership pretty much exclusively did all the maintenance on it, which I took to mean he knows about the issues (to some extent), which contradicted his initial statements. I felt this was acting in bad faith, causing me to balk at the purchase without gathering more information.

 

I think that was wise, dealership selling for a client means you have no comeback at all should it blow up ten feet from the door of the garage...BMW service record would mean the oil has been changed at extended periods, another factor in chain wear. Really annoys me when companies specify 15k miles for oil, they insist gear box oil is for life (what life - until the box fails is what they mean) and say that timing chain is not a service item and never needs changed - it is a joke that so many owners have no laughed at when faced with a bill for an new engine or valve and head job. Good luck in your quest.

 

So get this - I'm looking at a 2012 with 55k miles and it also has the same smooth running values, EXACTLY the same 28.55, flipping between cylinders. It also has a 3200 knock count on and cylinder #2, which I can feel under hard Acceleration. It has the n14. The dealer wants $15k. It's completely stock. Is this normal?

 

The problem is it is hard to know just what is wrong. That the timing chaIn tensioner and timing chain were replaced around 16K miles ago and with the engine running as poorly as you report, that's not a car I'd have as a gift.

Thus, I'd walk away.

There is always another car.

 

If you have the budget and want a 2nd gen JCW, look for 2013's. They have the updated N18 engine with certainly less problems (can't say they're all gone) than the N14s. I bought mine with 9k miles, now at 49k with zero issues. +1 to RockC when he says there's always another car

 

That is a good idea. It's just amazing to me that two cars would have the exact same issues and Mini doesn't cover them as part of that lawsuit. Oh well, thanks for the info.