Navigation & Audio My MINI's a Demo MINI for Integral Audio
#201
On the web site when you navigate to the R53 order page and access the pdf installation instructions the link takes you to R56 installation instructions. Are there separate instructions for the R53?
http://www.integralaudio.com/index.p...er-system.html
http://www.integralaudio.com/index.p...er-system.html
#202
#203
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Possibly. I know with all the installs we've done, mounting the tweeter and mid up high has usually resulted in a better stage height. Also messing with on-axis/off-axis has helped in reducing some of the processing. But the PLDs have always remained an issue. And getting a good full range mid installed up there is challenging. The door mounting we've experienced drags the stage down and also required tons of processing due to PLD issues as well. The best place we've found is kick panels for PLD concerns but they have their own issues. It's always a compromise. Even the guys with deep dashes that have custom rebuilt the dash have issues. And the closer to perfection you try to get it becomes exponentially more expensive.
Lately I go for the 80% awesomeness as it usually costs me a lot less!!!
Lately I go for the 80% awesomeness as it usually costs me a lot less!!!
#204
#205
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Agreed.
These concerns area still present with the location of the mid in the Mini door. Measure the PLDs in that location versus the bottom of the a-pillar to the drivers seating position. The other concern with that door location is vocals can be drawn downward. My years of messing this with this stuff have taught me that the mid is the most critical and the hardest driver to get right. In the lower frequencies, PLDs (path length differences) are more critical. In the higher frequencies it s about angles and location. The mid mixes both together. It's a tough thing to get perfect in my opinion. Many have disagreed with me in the past and thats cool too. Audio is a very emotional and personal thing. And I will never claim to know it all
Anyways, this is really not on topic. In a situation like this, stock locations are very reasonable as anything else is going to get you into money. But to setup a nice L-C-R sound stage with depth and width using factory locations will require you to process the signal. Being able to integrate something off the shelf like an MS8 processor would add a new dimension to the project, if it can be made to work that justifies the cost. Of note, I have a new MS8 in the box sitting on the shelf in the garage waiting
These concerns area still present with the location of the mid in the Mini door. Measure the PLDs in that location versus the bottom of the a-pillar to the drivers seating position. The other concern with that door location is vocals can be drawn downward. My years of messing this with this stuff have taught me that the mid is the most critical and the hardest driver to get right. In the lower frequencies, PLDs (path length differences) are more critical. In the higher frequencies it s about angles and location. The mid mixes both together. It's a tough thing to get perfect in my opinion. Many have disagreed with me in the past and thats cool too. Audio is a very emotional and personal thing. And I will never claim to know it all
Anyways, this is really not on topic. In a situation like this, stock locations are very reasonable as anything else is going to get you into money. But to setup a nice L-C-R sound stage with depth and width using factory locations will require you to process the signal. Being able to integrate something off the shelf like an MS8 processor would add a new dimension to the project, if it can be made to work that justifies the cost. Of note, I have a new MS8 in the box sitting on the shelf in the garage waiting
#206
quality_sound & tominizer,
Just to give you guys a little preview, we're in the early stages of looking at a higher-price point DSP version of the Soundstage with time alignment and vehicle-specific processing. The new IC's and DSP can do some amazing things**, as I'm sure you both know, and with programming done based on our vehicle-specific measurement and modeling can far exceed what the "black box" processors can achieve. It's a long way off at best, at worst it may never come to the MINI (would just be done for some of the other vehicles we're developing for). No idea on pricing or availability, but just thought I'd mention it since it's relevant to your discussion. For anyone who's reading this and considering the current Soundstage, don't let this discussion deter you from purchase - if the DSP version does come the MINI we'll offer an upgrade option.
**If either of you are AES members take a look at some of the array DSP papers from the last conference. Unbelievable what is possible these days.
Just to give you guys a little preview, we're in the early stages of looking at a higher-price point DSP version of the Soundstage with time alignment and vehicle-specific processing. The new IC's and DSP can do some amazing things**, as I'm sure you both know, and with programming done based on our vehicle-specific measurement and modeling can far exceed what the "black box" processors can achieve. It's a long way off at best, at worst it may never come to the MINI (would just be done for some of the other vehicles we're developing for). No idea on pricing or availability, but just thought I'd mention it since it's relevant to your discussion. For anyone who's reading this and considering the current Soundstage, don't let this discussion deter you from purchase - if the DSP version does come the MINI we'll offer an upgrade option.
**If either of you are AES members take a look at some of the array DSP papers from the last conference. Unbelievable what is possible these days.
#207
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That would be something A three way front stage tailored to the car's environment for near perfect SQ. That's a pile of in-car measurements and TIME to nail down right. Would be interesting to be able to have a processor that's standard for any install and it would just be the parameters you upload into to it depending on the vehicle and the speaker setup
Regardless, it looks like the current package uses good equipment and has been well thought out. It's always easy to talk about custom installations but the reality is that solution is one off most times and a lot of dough. And usually involves cutting up parts of your ride. Being able to bolt stuff up and not ruin the car has always held a high degree of merit for me. Get 80% of perfection an being able to put everything back to stock for only the cost of our time is great. When selling cars I've owned, a lot of people shy away from cars that are not stock.
Regardless, it looks like the current package uses good equipment and has been well thought out. It's always easy to talk about custom installations but the reality is that solution is one off most times and a lot of dough. And usually involves cutting up parts of your ride. Being able to bolt stuff up and not ruin the car has always held a high degree of merit for me. Get 80% of perfection an being able to put everything back to stock for only the cost of our time is great. When selling cars I've owned, a lot of people shy away from cars that are not stock.
#208
That's a pile of in-car measurements and TIME to nail down right.
Would be interesting to be able to have a processor that's standard for any install and it would just be the parameters you upload into to it depending on the vehicle and the speaker setup
Regardless, it looks like the current package uses good equipment and has been well thought out. It's always easy to talk about custom installations but the reality is that solution is one off most times and a lot of dough.
When selling cars I've owned, a lot of people shy away from cars that are not stock.
Last edited by Kevin@Integral Audio; 03-26-2012 at 08:41 AM.
#209
#211
I thought so too... then I ordered a 40-pin cable and found out my 2012 has a 50-pin cable. Because of that I can't get the OEM unit tucked in there until I'm back in the US and my car shows up. Frick and frack!!!!!
Plus, I can't figure out how to separate the cd drive face from the chassis so i can put it up there anyway. I'm sure once I figure it out I'll feel stupid for not getting it sooner. lol
Plus, I can't figure out how to separate the cd drive face from the chassis so i can put it up there anyway. I'm sure once I figure it out I'll feel stupid for not getting it sooner. lol
#212
Join Date: Mar 2009
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This thread is from way back, but got a full, brand new install from Kevin this past Thursday. I had a fan issue which Kevin wanted to look at, but instead of just replacing the amp, he had a nice Integral Audio box waiting for me. Kevin had offered at least 2 other times to come back for the final product (I had perfectly sounding prototype stuff so I saw no need) but he truly wanted me to see and hear the differences now that the system has undergone multiple improvements in the past 5 years...
So the car was gutted. Old crossovers under seat replaced with new Integral Audio crossovers that fit in the door armrests, new tweeters, mid-ranges and woofers and a new amp. Old sub still in place.
Gutted interior
We worked together for about 6 hours - Kevin took care of the new harness, amp, tweeters and probably a million other things I didn't notice while I took care of the mounting the new mid-range and woofers and crossovers.
New crossovers
Quick summary: It's unreal the difference in sound. I loved this system before. Mid-ranges in this system are much more involved and it's crazy how the sound is elevated as if it's coming from the windshield. Bass is rich from the woofers and the balance between the sub and the woofers make for a more even sound, i.e. not bass coming just from the sub if that makes sense. And the clarity of the new mid-ranges and tweeter - just ridiculous!
Kevin shared that he's working on a full system for the 3-series only to find out that someone hijacked his Integral Audio name and put out some real garbage. So if you've heard that the 3-series system is out there and it's not so good... trust me - it's not Kevin's stuff. He does nothing badly and is the most stand-up guy I've met in this industry.
So the car was gutted. Old crossovers under seat replaced with new Integral Audio crossovers that fit in the door armrests, new tweeters, mid-ranges and woofers and a new amp. Old sub still in place.
Gutted interior
We worked together for about 6 hours - Kevin took care of the new harness, amp, tweeters and probably a million other things I didn't notice while I took care of the mounting the new mid-range and woofers and crossovers.
New crossovers
Quick summary: It's unreal the difference in sound. I loved this system before. Mid-ranges in this system are much more involved and it's crazy how the sound is elevated as if it's coming from the windshield. Bass is rich from the woofers and the balance between the sub and the woofers make for a more even sound, i.e. not bass coming just from the sub if that makes sense. And the clarity of the new mid-ranges and tweeter - just ridiculous!
Kevin shared that he's working on a full system for the 3-series only to find out that someone hijacked his Integral Audio name and put out some real garbage. So if you've heard that the 3-series system is out there and it's not so good... trust me - it's not Kevin's stuff. He does nothing badly and is the most stand-up guy I've met in this industry.
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