Does anyone have any experience selling a car to someone abroad? No, I'm keeping my MCS!

http://www.craigslist.org/sby/car/78376584.html

I got an email from a guy in Greece who wants it, really wants it. This just seems so strange, I'm not too sure if this is some kind of international scam that I should be leary of or not... Here's are thread of communications stemming from my above posting on Craig's List:

Hello,
My name is Thomas ,am a minner in Panathinakois here in Greece.I saw your ad online and I will like to know if you still have it for sale.and if you would accept a certified cashier check for the payment , i have a shipping company who takes care of my shippment .So don't bother about the shippment.I will also like to know if is still in good condition and shape.urgent response is needed for procedure of payment because this is what i have been searching for,for a while before i saw this your ad and i would be very glad if you can get it sold to me.
Thanks and get back to me with the selling price.

Hi Thomas,

I just put the Dune Buggy for sale yesterday evening (06/11/05), and I'm just getting emails today. I have not shown it to anyone yet, so it is still available. I drove it about 20 miles yesterday, and it runs well, even on old gas. I noticed that the transmission makes a clicking sound sometimes in 3rd gear, but I would guess that it just needs some transmission fluid. It has been sitting for a while, so that's not uncommon. As you can tell, the Dune Buggy looks great! I got several nice comments on it yesterday while driving it that had me thinking about keeping it, but it's time to sell...

Since it might need some minor work, such as a tune-up, and transmission fluid, I'd be willing to lower the price to $4,000 US. The Dune Buggy will not disappoint the purchaser...

To be honest, I'm not really excited about shipping overseas. If you can see it in-person, you would know for sure it's what you want. I will have no problem selling this car locally, but I understand that you are far away. Since you are the first email I got, I will try to work with you.

Let me know how you want to proceed...

Thank you,

Tony

Tony B....Thanks for your mail back concerning the inquiry mail i sent to you.The price,condition also is okay by me .And my associates confirm there is no problem about the price($4000) ,my client do pays with a {USA}cashier check,he has agreed to mail out as bank cashiers check of $8,500 to you on my behalf to cover the shippment fees.About the shippment ,that we be taking care by my shipper to do the quick processing of the shipping of the( Dune Buggy) to my associates
So all you are to do after you received the check in your mail,Just take out your sale amount and refer the remaining money to my shipper immediately through the wester nunion or the money gramm outlet so to get the money fast and start the fast arrangement for the pickup of the( Dune Buggy).Since you are the original owner of this item,and i am buying the item directly from you i will like you to write your FULL NAME to be on the check,with the MAILING ADDRESS AND YOUR PHONE NUMBER which my client will be using to issued out the check to you.I do wish to trust you by refering the rest balance back to my shipper and also your fast doing to this transaction.
I will like to hear from you if this is okay by you and you are ready to process ,if you are ready to sale your item and promise refering the rest balance to my shipper immediately you received the check so can start the quick arrangement for the pickup.Any body that want to buy this item just tell them that it as been sold.I will be at my computer waiting to see your epky to my payment method mailed.I am a minner here in Panathinakois,Greece.
Here is the info needed by me:
NAME................
ADDRESS.........
STATE.................
ZIP CODE...........
COUNTRY..........
PHONE(CELL & HOME)
THANKS AND MAIL ME BACK WITH YOUR DETAIL AS SOON
AS POSSIBLE.
=========

After he sent this most recent communication, I asked him to get on Yahoo! IM as I see he's online. I have some concerns, namely with the shipping... If anyone has experience here, please enlighten me, and also your concerns, or questions I should ask. I have a few already...

Thanks so much!

 

Sorry TonyB.. this sounds too fishy.. I have seen this too many times before...

I'm sure the certified check they are giving you is some poor guy's $$$ and of course once you give them back the change $$$ then you have been scammed too...

If it was only this easy!!!

///Gilbert

 

Thanks for confirming some of my concerns betet! But, if I wait until the check clears, and that money is literally in the bank, how am I getting scammed?

Just yesterday when I brought the dune buggy over to my mom's place, her neighbor said that her son just sold a car, and irnonically it went overseas also. I'm sure some are legit... I just want to make sure I proceed in a way that is not going to screw me. He seems to be one with more to lose though as I will have $8,500 dollars...

Crap, he just got on Yahoo! IM. I need to chat with him now... Any other input would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks.

 

You think it clears, so you send him the "extra" money, weeks later the check bounces, and you're out a few grand. This is a classic scam, don't fall for it.

 

Just got done instant messaging with the guy for 20 minutes. I'll spare you all a copy/paste...

He said that it would be a US Certified Cashier's Check. Is that not good as cash? I made it clear that if it's not a cashier's check, I would need to wait until it clears. I'll call my bank tomorrow, and DMV as well...

Can PayPal be used for something like this?

 

Do Not, repeat Do Not fall for this illegal means to steal your car. To make a long story short, these folks will send you a forged/counterfeit certified check, drawn on a foreign account that will take your bank a month or more to trace before coming back with the "it's counterfeit" result, thereby denying you of the money (which really never existed). Your car, however, will have already been shipped to a foreign destination, where the scammer, and his accomplice will be changing the paperwork/VIN. Bye-bye Buggy, for good.

Check this out for good measure.

http://usa.motoseller.com/safety.php

Scam described in detail.

 

Yeah, it smelled bad from the get-go... MGCMAN, and others, thanks for confirming what I felt in my gut. I could be out of my car, and $4,500 . Anyone want a dune buggy?

 

This a twist on the old Nigerian scam. The perp sometimes does the following: Sends a check for a few hundred dollars too much then gets in touch with you explaining that the check was accidentally cut for for too much money. He really needs the money (difference) back because his grandma is sick and will you please wire him the difference. You figure, what the hell because you still have the car so you send the money and his check later bounces. You are out the money you sent and he never collects the car.

 

This site also recommends that you report the scam...

National Consumers League, Internet Fraud Watch
"Report fake check scams to the National Fraud Information Center/Internet Fraud Watch, a service of the nonprofit National Consumers League, at www.fraud.org or (800) 876-7060. That information will be transmitted to the appropriate law enforcement agencies."

 

I've actually heard of that one (Nigerian) before, and thought the same thing when he was prepared to send me $8,500. The lure was there, but common sense had me contacting family and friends for inuput. I guess you guys are like family and friends also .

I now need to schedule appointments for interested parties to see the buggy, drive 30 minutes to my mom's place (easier to find than mine in the canyon!), and be lucky if half show-up on time, or at all . Better than going this route though...

 

THIS IS A SCAM!! This scam has been around for some time but just to screw with him tell the guy to mail you cash and you will do the deal if not get lost or you will turn him in to the authorities.

 

I sent to him an email a little while ago saying that I didn't feel comfortable with this transaction, and that it fit a popular scam scenario. I then proceeded to share with him a copy/paste job of MGCMAN's post above...

The complaint form on the link provided is not working... I'm doing one at fraud.org now though. If anyone wants to chat with this guy on Yahoo! IM, he's still online now

 

The complaint form is set-up for folks who have been swindled, but I completed it nonetheless, also including our entire Yahoo! Instant Message communication. I also provided a link to here as this thread documents the emails as welll as a link to my ad...

 

TonyB like was said, it is 100% a scam. They send you a Fake cashiers check. It LOOKS real so you accept it and the bank so too at first. Then a week or two later the bank finds it to be a fraud and they take the money back from YOU. Then you're the one with no cash and no dunebuggy either.

I get emails like this in my spam folder AT LEAST 2 or 3 times A DAY! I thought everyone knew these were scams by now but I guess not everyone has been solicited by them yet. Obviously if they didn't get some people they wouldn't keep sending the emails out.

B/c of scams like this, I would never sell to anyone overseas. Just my 2 cents.

 

Yep, yep, and yep. The old Nigerian check and refund game--it is also perpetrated by Californians on folks overseas. Too bad this sort of thing has hit Craig's List which is too virtuous for such swindlers.

TonyB reminded me I used to have a dune buggy that was a turd until I switched from heavy chrome rims and truck tires to Jackmans and BFGs--then it became super nimble despite having a big Yosemite Sam decal on the front. Absolute fun transport! I hope it finds an appreciative home.

 

Good to see you greatgro, it's been a while! The guy never got back to me when I called him out, AND, after I went back to read the Craig's List "welcome" email, at the bottom, this glaring language:

WARNING!! *** WARNING!! *** WARNING!! *** WARNING!! *** WARNING!!

Please be extremely wary of distant "buyers" responding to your ad! Many sellers receive replies from scammers hoping to defraud them through schemes involving (counterfeit) cashier's checks and/or wire transfers. Fake cashier's checks will often clear funds, but banks hold the person cashing the check responsible when the fraud is discovered. More info on scams can be found at this web address:

http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams.html

Oh, and hey - thanks for using craigslist!

==========

I probably shouldn't have bothered you all, but in a time of need, I did, and that says something. Thanks so much everyone for your time and concern .

I'm making appointments now to show her... It will be sad to see her leave, but my wife agreed that it's cool to replace her with another fun ride. If I wouldn't have had my toys before marriage, I'm sure it might have been contested a bit more .

The proceeds from this will go toward something about the same weight, but with much more power and refinement...

 

Just wanted to follow-up and say that this story has a good ending! No, the bad guy wasn't caught, at least not yet... I sold the buggy for the same offer price (4k) to a company at Oakland Airport that wants to use her as a "follow me" vehicle. These are used to escort/direct planes around the tarmac. Pretty cool! I should be able to see her whenever I'm up in the area