http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...1n6stable.html

Enough of them flipped over on the fwy that it's going to affect all of us.

 

I'll go ahead and ask my newbie, ignorant question since I am not a mechanical whiz...
What (if any) is the difference between "electronic stability control" and "dynamic stability control"? I'm thinking they are pretty much the same thing in that they prevent the same vehicle action. (Dynamic=adjusts to changing conditions) Am I way off base?

 

I understand the DSC requirement, but I don't understand what it has to do with rollovers. DSC mainly keeps you from spinning out. I think rollovers often happen when people are driving too fast and/or not paying attention and driving vehicles that are inherently unsafe.

I just pray sportscar makers include ways to turn these sytems off.

Edit: I was replying to the original post. I assume ESC/DSC is same/same.

 

Stability control is a lot more than, "anti rollover". It's designed to keep vehicles from going out of control when their car is going too fast for a turn or maneuver. It's good. We have it when the optional DSC isn't turned off.

We, of course, won't go out of control with quick turns or maneuvers, but if someone else has it and it keeps that vehicle from going out of control and then maybe involving our car in their accident, then it's a good thing.

 

Poor you. Another safety feature and your dissing it? Whats wrong with that picture Safety is your friend.

ESC is an active safety system that uses sensors to detect when a driver is about to lose control of the vehicle and automatically intervenes to provide stability and help the driver stay on the intended course, especially in oversteering and understeering situations. Industry experts have hailed Electronic Stability Control as a milestone in automotive safety, comparing it to seatbelts and airbags. ESC keeps vehicles on the road, helps prevent rollovers and skids, and is thus the easy safety choice for consumers when purchasing a new vehicle. http://4wheeldrive.about.com/cs/roll.../aa090103a.htm

 

I should have known to do that--I'm sorry. It is Friday. Night.

 

ESC=DSC.. all pretty much the same...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSC

Usually each manufacturer will come with a fancier sounding name than
ones before..

 

If you drive your Mini in any kind of competitive environment.. then it's
your worst enemy... then again some of us buy a exciting car like Mini to
pick up groceries...

 

So true. If it will keep some idiot driver from killing me (guess what kind of dream *I* had last night ), then cool.

 

Still, I assume that these ESC/DSCs would increase the prices of all cars.
We didnt "need" this device before the SUV days.. now we're all be
paying b/c SUVs drivers cant keep their 4 wheels on the ground.

As far as for competition, I hope all manufacturer would build with a true
disable switch... not like those half-disable ones from Lexus or Benz.

 

Here are a couple of stability control demo videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Y6z7cXxEE&NR=1

http://www.vidly.net/video-bmw-dynam...-overview.html

 

and the fact is that electronic brake system aids are a very, very good thing. They allow any driver to brake and turn. And for those that think that you don't need systems like this because of your inhearent skill, the systems can operate in part of the performance envelope that no human can even access, independant of skill or reaction time (This has to do with electronic brake force distribution). Without these systems you are limited in braking force by the wheel with the least traction of the four, and that is certainly not good. Racers have bias bars to work front/rear bias during a race, but these aren't real time systems, nor do they work on lateral force imbalance during turns.

I mention all this crap because the electronic brake systems are the basis of ESC systems. And as I dug deeper I found that most of the complaints had little to do with system capabilities, but were rather limeted to how the software was programmed in a particular car (our Minis being a perfect example of not the right programming for the car, and not the right mix of user settings in the system). I have yet to find a single person who really understands what these systems can do and how they do it that will admit that the system itself is the problem, and not the programming on a specific car that bothers them.

Matt

 

Is that an off-hand insult? Your dissing a safety feature because you want to go play on the track? Poor you.:impatient

Safety regulations are not going to go away when they save lives. And just maybe that SUV wont roll over in front of you

 

Whoops--here's what I find when I google:

"This is a video demonstrating BMW's Dynamic Stability Control which is what they have chosen to call their version of Electronic Stability Control which is the more commonly used name for this type of systems."
http://www.vidly.net/video-bmw-dynam...-overview.html

"Electronic Stability Program (ESP), also called Vehicle Dynamics Control, Dynamic Stability Control, etc., is a passive safety feature for your car that constantly verifies whether your vehicle is headed in the direction the steering wheel is indicating..."
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=ESP

"One of the most popular new features you'll see on the dealer lots is stability control ? a.k.a. Electronic Stability Control, Dynamic Stability Control. These are the same basic systems under different names, depending on the manufacturer."
http://autos.aol.com/article/_a/auto...14142109990006

and so on.
Answered my own question, huh!

 

And this has been repeated for the electronics in Porsches. I believe even Walter Roehl has been quoted in saying that he can get better times at the Ring using the electronics.

They are NOT going away. The systems react far faster than any human being and will only be seen more and more. As times goes by and the technology gets cheaper, you will see them on lower priced cars for everyone ... just like ABS is ubiquitious now.

 

.. I already know techonogy is going to save all of our stupid butts! Let's ignore the physics of high center of gravity. Let's ignore lack of drivers eduction in relation to actually driving (vs. being able to read a sign and knowing the max. blood alcohol level). Let's ignore how cell phones distract. Let's ignore blah blah blah.

I'm so glad technology is going to save us all!!!!

 

make sure your car manufacturer knows you want a system with a "sport" or "track" mode. Doesn't even have to come on by default... But the fact that these are coming isn't gonna change any time soon. One's only redress is to try to get the implementation the way you want it. The fight on it being there is over.

Matt

 

I love my Xterra and and I liked my Tahoe before that...... I use them off road to get to Kayak and mountain bike areas that the Mini can not get to.

I was just in St. George Island FL and saw cars getting stuck in sand... i had no such problems.

The problem is not the SUV it is the people who buy them and use them as station wagons and never use them for what they were intended......

 

Competent driving is your friend.

It will be another case like anti-lock brakes which have so far failed to show a consistent improvement in safety statistics (lower crash rates in some scenarios, higher in others).

I suspect that the truth is that in most of these accidents the driver is simply operating beyond the limits of the vehicle's capability and no amount of electronics will fix that.

The statistics that are being trotted out to justify this are the result of the fact that the drivers who currently choose to buy these options are more safety concious from the outset.

It is. Reading comprehension is your friend.

 

I stand corrected. ESC they are talking about is nothing more than standard MINI DSC. So its not going to effect MINIs at all.

Here is an excellent video of the Bosch system http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vi...e3ce105.689691

 

ABS brakes by themselves have shown no decrease. ABS brakes as an integral part of the ESCs has.

"In the early days of ABS systems (1989-1999), the expected reduction in accidents with ABS never statistically materialized. However, in the past five years ... (NHSTA) has shown a 42 percent reduction in single vehicle accidents and 40 percent fewer fatalities in those accidents with cars that use an electronic stability system in conjunction with ABS... ." Electronic Driving Aids, A. Caldwell, Panorama, Jan., 2007

 

Can you tell us who did the research that showed that the R56 DSC doesn't have the right programming. As a matter of fact, I'd like to see the specific results of that study. Any chance of that being shared with the rest of us?

 

Already covered that:

 

That only applies if its optional. In some cars its standard

But if you all ... whoever, dont' like the safety features ... dont buy the car. They are not going away.

 

how the R56 is, but the R53 from the factory has had many drivers scared at times. But really, this is subjective and isn't subject to any absolute test criteria that can be labelled "best" for all conditions. That's why high end sports cars have different settings.

But I'd love to hear from a R56 owner to see if the power cut on wheel slip is as severe as on the R53.

But think of it another way, why would one assume that a single factory programming is best for all situations, from people who live on dirt roads to wet environments to good pavement to good driving skills to poor driving skills? I don't think a best for all that is even possible...

But I agree with many that the factory settings on the R53 and the options given aren't very good for the track enthusiast. If you've had it cut in when you need to go, and have been in the same situation with a reprogrammed car, you'll appreciate what a little ECU hacking can do for the system.

Matt