Again, I'm far from being an expert on anything, but I've also got around 50 years of shifting manuals. This includes trucks of all sizes (most of which benefitted from double clutching, even demanded it), motorcycles etc. etc.. and am not in the habit of double clutching sychronized transmissions and won't unless there's a evident need. Since I included motorcycles, Hondas in particular, I'm also familiar with keeping the revs in the powerband. I have yet to replace a clutch/throwout bearing yet, so I'm simply taking a small issue with the "must" in your statement.

 

Commercial trucks don't have synchro's so you have to double clutch. Clutch in then out of gear tap fuel clutch in then downshift. This is neccessary to match gear speeds for the down shift. Heel Toe shifting is similar and should be used for serious track driving as I understand it( though I have no personal experience with this). Under normal everyday driving with a modern transmission it is just not needed.

 

I wouldn't recommend trying to shift without clutch, unless your transmission is getting overhauled. I learned to do it on my old fiat as it was getting a whole tranny job as 2nd gear was totally shot, was getting replaced anyways. Otherwise, I'd stay away as this is an expensive lesson.

But because I used to drive a car with very little synchro, I speed match without thinking. This is how I shift (I don't know if it's good or bad)...

As I'm depressing the clutch, I pull the gear out, and I time it so that when the clutch hits the bottom, I pulled the gear out completely, and at the same time as I'm putting into the next gear, I adjust my rev to the next gear, and I shift in. I get this down to one smooth shift. I can go from 5th to 2nd and other way around smoothly and fast. (Well, depends on how fast/slow the engine revs up/down) When I get into a new car (manual), I have to shift through all the gears at various speeds to get a feel for what the rev/speed/gear ratio feels like. Once I get a hang of it, I can shift quickly. I've stalled out trying to time things properly. I've had many people amazed as to how fast and smooth I shifted. With my s convertible, I can churp tire if I stay above 3500 rpm.

I found this to be the fastest way to shift and get the smoothest ride. Though people say 'You don't need to put the clutch down to pull the gear out", I don't know if this is good for the tranny. If someone has an advice, that would be great.

But one advice I did pick up from this thread was not to keep my foot on the clutch when it's neutral. I was taught not to do this ("use the dead clutch rule"), but others told me this was none sense. When I was driving today, I kept my foot on the dead clutch.

If you decide to practice, do take your time. If there's one thing to avoid, I'd avoid hopping on the clutch. (I don't know what the real term is). That's when you rev your engine high (e.g. 4000rpm), and ride on the clutch to get a sligh 'hop'. This is a sure way to eat through your clutch.

The beauty of manual is that when you learn these sweet spots, you can turn your car into a totally different beast on demand. I can make my mini's tire churp and knock the passenger back in their seat shifting at 3k-4k rpm, or get a super smooth ride at lower rpms.

-M

 

Are you saying the slave cylinder stops fully disengaging the clutch even when you have your foot to the floor? I wonder if those that suggested this had the clutch system flushed ever? Hydraulic clutch systems use the same stuff as brakes which generally call for flushing every 2 years. It's different with a clutch since it doesn't get the same heat cycling as brakes, but I do that flush periodically - it's much less fluid and mostly pretty easy.

Just curious what the reasons for the extended clutch life - replacing the slave cylinder would normally result in replacing the fluid.

 

Agreed, that's perhaps an overstatement. My only justification is that most owner's manuals tell you not to downshift at speeds that will keep you in the power range. The synchros also resist more at those speeds, indicating additional wear. Early in life, it was typical for me to lose the 2nd and 3rd gear synchros before I was double clutching on a regular basis.

 

That will depend on your normal everyday driving style.

 

I am no expert, nor even an advanced amateur on the subject. I know what I was advised, and I know I did not take the advice, and I know that I had to replace the clutch some months later. Try a search for clutch slave cylinder in these forums to find folks who can converse more intelligently on the subject.

 

Uh, no. Most issues stem from the squeal issue that shows up unrelated to usage. There are many, many threads on this.

 

I'll see what comes up. It's almost a little too convenient that your clutch went so soon after ..

thanks

 

regarding double clutching -- it just seems that in modern transmissions, the extra wear caused by engaging and disengaging the clutch twice as often for every shift would negate any benefit of protecting the synchros from doing what they're designed to do . . . just a thought.
I realize that wasn't the case many years ago, and for many this is a carried-over habit which used to be almost a necessity -- but I also don't break like I used to: I don't pump my ABS brakes.

 

Being close to 100,000 miles might have had something to do with it.

 

To be able to double clutch when doing spirited driving, almost always requires heel and toe downshifting (simultaneously keeping the heel of your right foot on the brake, and rev'ing the throttle with the toe or ball of your foot). I was extremely disappointed when I got my MINI that the brake and throttle pedals are too far apart to heel and toe. So I never double clutch anymore for this reason, I find it virtually impossible.

 

To be able to double clutch when doing spirited driving, almost always requires heel and toe downshifting (simultaneously keeping the heel of your right foot on the brake, and rev'ing the throttle with the toe or ball of your foot). I was extremely disappointed when I got my MINI that the brake and throttle pedals are too far apart to heel and toe. So I never double clutch anymore for this reason, I find it virtually impossible.

 

Guess I "double clutched" on my post. Sorry!

 

That's a design issue. Mine's been doing that since almost new. Seems to be getting better with age, though.

 

By the way, I thought my clutch suffered from this -- but I soon realized that the horrible squeals were coming from my old left knee . . . may want to look into that too.

 

Yes, the pedals are cumbersome to toe & heel with. I've been thinking about fabricating some. I'm guessing, though, one of the aftermarket guys probably have a bolt-on.

 

Now that you mention it, I do have a reconstructed right knee joint, but I think that only explains the brake squeal.

 

I was having trouble with the sole of my right shoe at the ball of my foot getting caught under the right edge of the brake pedal. I removed the entire brake pedal arm, did a double bend in a vise resulting in a move of the brake pad about 5/8" to the left toward the clutch. Now gassing, braking and heeling/toeing works much better for me even though the gas and brake are further apart than when stock. That change along with my modified downtube makes my driving position and leg position very comfy.

YD

 

I actually find the MINI's pedals well suited for the heel-toe. It's not actually a heel-toe, it's more like an inner ball-outer ball. Just roll the outside of your right foot onto the throttle.

 

Nice save.