wrote miniusa and this is what i got back..was wondering if anyone else got this.

Hello Joe, thanks for writing MINI. It's good to hear from you. On behalf of MINI USA, thank you for your comments regarding this issue, and we are sorry to hear
+of your concerns.

With reference to our trademark protection, we have no wish to prevent independent businesses from trading. However, just like any other business, MINI USA is
+duty bound to defend its MINI trademarks, and also needs to ensure that consumers clearly understand when they are dealing with official MINI outlets.

Also, we wish to make clear that we do distinguish between enthusiast and commercial websites. We welcome enthusiast-only websites, and they are free to use the
+MINI wordmark in their domain names, tradenames and otherwise, as long as they are clear that the sites are independent of MINI.

To ensure our trademarks are protected, we ask that third parties engaged in commercial MINI-related activities make clear that they are not officially licensed,
+and limit themselves to ^Sfair use^T textural references to MINI in their literature. For example, a commercial website may not use MINI in its domain name or
+tradename, nor may it make trademark use of the MINI mark. It must ensure there is no suggestion that it is an authorized, licensed, sponsored or affiliated MINI
+portal. Neither enthusiast nor commercial sites may use the MINI logo or any imitation thereof without permission.

We hope that you understand our obligation to protect the MINI trademarks. Again, thank you for your comments and concerns.

Sincerely,
Emily Hatley
MINI Division
866-ASK-MINI


--Original Message--

Was just advised that you are currently ligating with the owner of minicooper.com. I have to say I find this to both unreasonable and bad for the company. One of
+the major reason's I bought this car was due to the "Free Style" feeling of both the car and the owners. I would hate to think that this is going to be a big
+issue. I know of numerous mini sites that I use to swap stories, meet other motorer's and find out about new parts and products. I would request that you stop
+this petty suit and go about making a great car better. Thanks in advance
Joe Eldridge

 

I posted this in the original thread as well . . . .

I have not had a chance to look at all the responses to this so this may have been covered already.

If memory serves me, if a name, be it trade or otherwise, has been used in the public for some time without it being litigated for trade issues, doesn't it just fall out of the trade issue altogether? How long have sites been around regarding the original MINI Cooper and MINI that have not had to deal with this issue?

If these sites have been allowed to exist without it being an issue until just recently, then a reasonable judge/jury will already see that the use has been non-harmful to MINI in any way, that the use of the trade name has been diluted over the years and that there is no chance to mistake the "Official" MINI Site. Also, the "look and feel" of the non-official sites is quite different from the "official" site and the chance of mistaking one for another is a stretch. Finally, how many of those sites that currently use the word mini in their URL are sites representing parts suppliers for the original MINI and how long have they been around?

Of course, for you to win something like this would require you to get your own 800lb. gorilla to throw around some weight and do the legal voo-doo required to put theirs back in it's cage.

Let's hope they get a little common-sense here shortly.

OBTW, I too received the canned response to my e-mail of concern. Very original . . .

 

>>>>Watch out, Forcer. They are coming for your license plate!
>>
>>Nah, I should be ok i have 1's instead of I's, however it is implied that it should read MINI, maybe I should worry . Or maybe I should worry that Mike Myers might slap me with a lawsuit

On the topics of trademarks, Forcer, the phrase 'MINI ME' is actually trademarked by New Line Cinema! Saw that when checking who owned what with MINI in it!!!

 

I have hope that BMW/MINI will realize that they can still protect their brand name while getting free positive advertising by allowing a bit of leeway to MINI enthusiast, club, and aftermarket sites.

An enthusiast site such as https://www.northamericanmotoring.com should be considered a precious jewel in MINI's crown.

MINI has done such a wonderful job of promoting the enthusiast community in the past year and I hope that they will continue to support them as much as we promote their fantastic product.

 

>>I feal left out, I want the standard response from MINI USA with Rich at the top of the letter. I'm gonna have to complain on MINI's forum or send them an email...i'm going to ask specifically for the form letter from Emily.<<

I love it! Great approach. Now I wish I hadn't already written in and gotten my "Dear Christopher..." response back!

 

I hope so, too, Yucca. All MCO has to do is change their name.

 

So...

Does this mean no more MINI skirts, MINI golf, or MINI disc?

There isn't a visiter/member on this site that isn't aware that MCO IS NOT affiliated with, or endorsed by MINI USA. And those visiting this site from other countries are not your customers - so you should have no concern for those who might be confused due to language or similar.

If MINI2 can co-exist with BMW AG & MINI in the UK then surely MINI USA can co-exist with MCO.

This type of bullying behavior is SO un-MINI. ...Don't attempt to justify your boorish behavior with claims of 'brand protection' or similar. You guys are over the top!

Get stuffed MINI USA!

 

How many auto manufactures make a MINI van? I might just think a Toyota MINI van is made by MINI.

we know when we are not buying a real MINI part because if we bought it from the MINI dealer it would cost us 600 bucks for the 100 dollar part and another 600 for instalation. we don't need MINI to diferenchiate that for us.

Besides I donot think MINICOOPERONLINE is made or owned by mini. that is one word.

I have never heard of a word mark as stated by the bmw/ mini guy what the hell is a word mark.

if their is such a thinkg I think I will get my name wordmarked so nobody can have my name or use my name without paying me royalties.

I'll be rich, RICH, RICH

 

Firing up the "snail mail" letter writing machine tonite. Individual letters going to Tom Purves and the "gang" (listed at top of this thread) at BMW of NA as follows:
~~~

Dear Mr. Purves,

Domain name/trademark protection stance by MINI Division

I am the owner of a 2003 MINI Cooper S, built in April of this year. Like many Americans who have bought these cars in the last 18 months, I love the car and speak of it and demonstrate it to friends and strangers every chance I get. I am also read and participate to a modest extent on the online forums such as MINI2.com and minicooperline.com and of course have benefited immensely from the information shared there.

I have been very distressed to read in the last couple of weeks of the dispute between BMW of NA and https://www.northamericanmotoring.com over use of the domain name and related commercial activities (advertising from aftermarket MINI suppliers) linked to the site. As a businessperson myself, I can appreciate the perceived need for BMW to protect the MINI Cooper trademark. However, I also recognize that running any business entails management of risk, and that to be in business means an acceptance of some level of risk. In BMW’s case with respect to the MINI Cooper, BMW chose to take the following ‘marketing actions’ when introducing the MINI Cooper to the North American market:

1. Encouraged owners to individually specify and then, after purchase, modify their cars to make them personally “unique” (witness the highly modified MINI Cooper with flames spouting from the hood and that has been on the introduction to the MINIUSA website for months). This marketing stance attracted attention to the car, and of course encouraged a flourishing aftermarket parts community that exploded around the car.
2. For over a year, provided links to enthusiast websites such as MINI2.com, roadfly.org/mini and minicooperonline from BMW’s own MINIUSA website.

Now, at this late date, BMW has chosen to attempt to enforce domain name and/or trademark rights by forcing minicooperonline to give up their domain name (containing the words MINI and Cooper) and restricting their right to support the site’s operation by providing advertising links to aftermarket MINI suppliers. It seems that both of these tactics run in direct opposition to the ‘marketing actions’ (1) and (2) taken and promoted by BMW as stated above. These “bait and switch” tactics have of course caused tremendous concern and angst amongst the online MINI owner community, of which I am sure you are no doubt aware.

By taking this position at this time, it appears that BMW’s legal counsel believes they can and should attempt to enforce their interpretation of trademark and domain name law as if none of these ‘marketing actions’ ever took place ! I think it is time for BMW to recognize they have made a huge mistake over the last year or so, and that the price for that mistake is that they will need to accept some increment of increased “trademark risk” !

Your aggressive stance towards minicooperonline.com (and perhaps soon other similar sites) threatens to do more damage to the MINI brand than any risk of “inadequate” trademark defense presents to BMW at this point in time. After all, commercial sites like corvetteforum.com have existed for years and GM does not apparently see the same issues with this use of their trademarked name “Corvette” as you do.

I do not understand why you cannot make a thoughtful and earnest attempt to reach a ‘WIN-WIN’ compromise solution that will respect all the energy and emotion of the MINI enthusiasts that has gone into the development and sharing that takes place on sites like minicooperonline.com. If your lawyers and trademark people redirected a small fraction of the energy that are expending on “fighting” and “threatening” toward a search for a true compromise this situation could be resolved quickly and satisfactorily for all. This would be the ethically “right” choice for the good of all of us who know and appreciate what a unique and impressive product the MINI Cooper is.

Please, please, reconsider your actions and stance on these issues !

Thank you,

 

It's the calm before the storm:
AUGUST 12, 2003.
The deadline on the domain name change.
Good Luck Mark.

 

My hopes are with you and your domain mark...

the anxiousness of the 12th...

merely hours away...

what will we learn?


All 14 of my fingers are crossed!!!!!

Good Luck!

 

Hello Everyone,

Another thought on how to help Mark.

I just received a tele-marketing call from MINIUSA (most likely, outsourced to a third-party, but helpful nonetheless) asking about my recent service visit to my dealer.

While I gave my dealership high marks (they don't deserve to be slammed) I made sure to ask whether we could give any comments at the end, that will get back to MINIUSA.

I advised them that I was distressed by what MINIUSA was doing, and taht I have stopped recommending both my MINI and my BMW Motorcycle to anyone who asks, because of this situation.

Have to keep it coming at them from all directions!

Scott

 

BMW

- it's forums like these that keep your brand alive.

-it's forums like these where people hear about new options, Mini accessories that are available

-it's forums like these that encourage people to buy your cars

-it's forums like these that encourage people to keep buying your cars - I myself am on my 3rd Mini

-it's forums like these that people arrange to meet to show off your cars - I've just come back from a Mini Meet with over 100 Mini's present. It was a sight to be hold. We got greeted with smiles all the way, people laughed, waved, cheered, kids came out from their houses to look. Kids - your future. None of this would have been possible without sites like these

-it's these people your hurting the most, your loyal fan base. So the site owner makes some money from the web site - they're not cheap to run.

The amount of publicty your brand is getting more than makes up for it.

I can understand you wanting to protect your brand name - but trust me this is doing more harm than good. No one likes a bully.

You should embrase sites like this- because this is what keeps your brand alive. It is when sites like this disappear that you should be worried.

So let them keep the domain name and you'll come out a hero. The Mini name will shine brighter

 

Well, it's the 13th... did BMW/MINI suddenly forget about us?

Rocketboy_X

 

Friends,


Normally I would not be so extreme in my response, but this issue has had me boiling for months. I figured that when Mark changed the logo that it was under pressure from BMW/NA. Kudos to him for keeping it under wraps for so long but I can imagine the stress is enormous.




Let's talk about wings logos/emblems/insignia for a minute.

German Military Insignia Website



Please look at this item which I can only link to but not duplicate the image for the site owner has disabled that function. Very protective. Here we have one of hundreds of examples of a wings emblem with an encircled center design...HMMMM....is the classic Mini logo a rip-off of this? It even has laurel leaves which are well known as a classic Mini motif. Are all wings and laurel leaves now property of BMW? How many "feathers" can my logos have...3, 4?

How about this? Can I put this on a T-shirt? Or a website?










Silly!


I'm sure you see my point.

This whole bullying campaign by BMW is ridiculous. Others here have already said much more eloquently than I could what harm BMW is doing to the brand with these STORMTROOPER tactics. Sorry for the unfriendly reference to the 3rd Reich but this mission of PURITY of the brand and talk of "dilution" of the brand gives reminds me of another band of thugs with a bad idea...not so long ago.




German Military Insignia Website

I am personally collecting hundreds of examples of wings logos for my own fight against BMW. If anyone has examples in jpeg or gif please send them along via http://www.miniswag.com

See the light BMW! These homages and sites that tout your brand for FREE and the THOUSANDS of FREE PR people you have on the street in MINI owners are really good for you . They helped you sell a lot of cars. They held future owners hands while they waited for MONTHS. Some made a little money , some changed careers to devote all of their time. Hey dummies over there in NJ...this is good for you. get it?




__________________________________

 

DVL
Can I ask for a copy of your Logo Collection? I too, am curious and interested in the similar logos from around the globe!

 

>>DVL
>>Can I ask for a copy of your Logo Collection? I too, am curious and interested in the similar logos from around the globe!

c'mon...! Start your own collection ...it's fun! Finding them is the most fun..so no--sorry no copies of the collection.

 

DVLMINI, for a true comparison, find winged logos for commercial enterprises that are directly related to the MINI automobile. These are the only instances of so-called copyright infringement that MINI is pursuing. None of the logos you provided are, in any fashion, treading on the same commercial ground as MINI.

 

thanks and oh yeah..

I've registered http://www.notbmw.com and http://www.notmini.com just to avoid confusion.:


_________________

 

Good luck Mark!!!

 

I noticed yesterday that the long-time website Mini Heritage has changed its name to Sumpnutz. They don't say why they changed the name. I wonder if BMW gave them the cease and desist order, too.

James

 

Wifey, who runs in the big league circles of corporate finance for Oracle, listened to my ranting last night about BMW/MINI and their nasty actions. She recommended that the we (the MINI enthusiasts) approach them (BMW/MINI), with a proposition that should be a win-win for both parties (she talks like that at work all the time).

She says *her company* has something called Website Certification Levels for companies that want to appear to have strong ties with Oracle. Oracle basically gives authorization to specific web sites to use their name, logo and links to their site (etc), and in return Oracle gets to be selective about just who gets to claim to be their partners/suppliers/good friends. There are different levels that go hand in hand with the different levels of partnership.

Seems that MINI could win some incredible good will and press, and maintain their marketed image as a uniquely different kind of company, by giving an official "stamp of approval" to MCO/MiniMotorsport etc. by entering into some sort of official you-are-allowed-to-use-our-name agreement. They could maintain rights to revoke and dis-allow name usage if the site in question begins doing things that MINI feels reflects badly upon their corporate image. But they could also benefit from a number of dedicated redirects and linkages to MINI corporate sites; as you would expect from a MINI Certified Site.



That's the win-win proposition. Wifey also says that it would be smart to get a presentation together on how MINI is shooting themselves in the foot, apparently letting some power hungry faction within the organization override the lets-be-different characters who built the car in the first place. Include stats like the number of users hitting the site, posts per user, estimated time on-line, etc. Also point out that MINI does no TV advertising in the US. Do a good job of showing the hypocrysy in the major divergence between their press campaign ("Let's think out of the box&quot, and their behavior ("Lets act like an 800 pound gorilla&quot.

Then she says you get the presentation into the hands of the financial analysts who track the automotive industry on Wall Street. These guys have no qaulms about asking BMW/MINI directly on the industry conference calls "What's this I hear about your organization creating a real rift with the MINI enthusiast community? Do you really think that's a smart thing to do since, with no television advertising, you're principally relying upon testimonials and word of mouth to grow your US sales?"

Kind of a good cop/bad cop approach. Make 'em feel bad about being just like every other big corporation out there, but also suggest to them that there are other ways of dealing with the issue that are beneficial to *all* parties involved.

 

>>...Kind of a good cop/bad cop approach...

Good post, Dan. But as for trying to convince a corporatation to be smart, well, good luck!

 

A few points:

Dan - talking to an Oracle person about a company being nasty? Larry E. would laugh in BMWs face for not having squashed MCO yet...

You mention that MINI does no television advertising - not true. One my one channel I've seen a few of the MINI commercials. My favorite was the guy zipping around San Francisco, then opening the soda can with explosive results. There was also a dog/cat one that didn't work for me.

The licensing thing seems to make sense, but all the car makers are cracking down. Note that all Miata vendors are closing out Miata logo items - and not due to lack of sales.

Even with a good presentation, I can't see a motivated lawyer flipping - "Ok, you're right, never mind." But we can hope.

 

How about http://www.miniminis.com?

Many INdividuals Interested in MINIs

Are we allowed to use acronyms that incidentally spell MINI? If we are, lets figure some good ones out...