R50/53 Buying a 2004 to 2006 S or MINI
#26
I took delivery of mine during the fall while it was warm and didn't have any rattles for several months, thinking, wow, I must have gotten lucky. Come winter and cooler temperatures, things must have shrunk up a little and my dash rattle finally showed up. It is nothing too annoying (I was highly annoyed by a dash rattle in my old car) and turning the radio up made it go away. Once the weather gets warmer, it seems to stop rattling as much unless I am on rough roads.
As for the center speedo, I think it's just a matter of adjusting to it. I actually look to the center dash for the speedo out of habit when I drive other cars now.
#27
As to being claustrophobic in a cabrio . . . I'm not sure that deserves much of a response
I'll just point out that there's a button over the rearview mirror to solve that problem.
#28
I can't believe no one has clarified this tid bit for you.... For starters:
Only the COOPER models have a Belgium built ZF sourced CVT transmission. This is from 2002 until the last Cooper automatic CVT that will come off the assembly line in June '08.
The COOPER S models (beginning with January 2005 production) offer a Toyota Japanese sourced AISIN (Toyota owns 60% of AISIN transmission) 6-speed automatic transmission with paddle shifters in the steering wheel. THIS TRANSMISSION IS ROCK SOLID AND NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE ZF CVT FROM THE COOPER.
Would be buyers OFTEN get confused between the CVT automatic offered in the 1st gen Cooper tintops and Cabrios and the 6-speed automatic transmission with torque converter offered in the R53 hardtops (since early 2005) and the R52 Cooper S Cabrios.
The ZF CVT and the AISIN 6-speed ARE TWO DIFFERENT ANIMALS.
Hope this helps.
Only the COOPER models have a Belgium built ZF sourced CVT transmission. This is from 2002 until the last Cooper automatic CVT that will come off the assembly line in June '08.
The COOPER S models (beginning with January 2005 production) offer a Toyota Japanese sourced AISIN (Toyota owns 60% of AISIN transmission) 6-speed automatic transmission with paddle shifters in the steering wheel. THIS TRANSMISSION IS ROCK SOLID AND NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE ZF CVT FROM THE COOPER.
Would be buyers OFTEN get confused between the CVT automatic offered in the 1st gen Cooper tintops and Cabrios and the 6-speed automatic transmission with torque converter offered in the R53 hardtops (since early 2005) and the R52 Cooper S Cabrios.
The ZF CVT and the AISIN 6-speed ARE TWO DIFFERENT ANIMALS.
Hope this helps.
#29
^ +1
As noted in that motoringfile article I linked you to -- for the 2005 model:
"Another area that problems persisted were with the One and Cooper models with the optional CVT transmission. While issues seem to be less frequent than the earlier cars, the basic design of the transmission didn’t change in ‘05 and thus it would be wise to keep this in mind when shopping. Of course the newly released automatic on the Cooper S was a traditional torque converter style auto that doesn’t share any of the CVT issues. That said modern automatic transmissions aren’t always known for their long-term (100k+) reliability so keep that in mind."
Note that the first part is only talking about the One and the MC -- the second part talks about the auto (non-CVT) tranny of the MCS
As noted in that motoringfile article I linked you to -- for the 2005 model:
"Another area that problems persisted were with the One and Cooper models with the optional CVT transmission. While issues seem to be less frequent than the earlier cars, the basic design of the transmission didn’t change in ‘05 and thus it would be wise to keep this in mind when shopping. Of course the newly released automatic on the Cooper S was a traditional torque converter style auto that doesn’t share any of the CVT issues. That said modern automatic transmissions aren’t always known for their long-term (100k+) reliability so keep that in mind."
Note that the first part is only talking about the One and the MC -- the second part talks about the auto (non-CVT) tranny of the MCS
#30
Also. Both Cooper and Cooper S (1st generation hardtops and cabrios) offer GETRAG sourced manual transmissions. These transmissions are generally well regarded for their reliability. The 1st gen Coopers have a 5-speed Getrag transmission with shorter gear ratios (This was the most significant change MINI made to the Cooper back in 2005). Hardtop R50 MINI Coopers built between 2002 and 2004 have an old Peugeot sourced MIDLANDS GEARS 5 -speed that is notorious for premature failure. This is probably a good reason to avoid a pre-2005 R50 MINI Cooper hardtop 5-speed manual.
The Cooper S hardtop and Cabrio have a 6-speed GETRAG sourced manual transmission with dual cone syncronizers (a la Porsche). In 2005, MINI revised the gear ratios of the Getrag in the Cooper S (R52-R53) and made 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear much shorter in comparison to early (2002-2004) Cooper S equipped with the same transmission. Big difference in acceleration from a bone stock 2002-2004 MCS to a 2005-2008 R52-R53 Cooper S manual.
The weak link, if you will, of ALL manual transmission equipped MINIs is the CRAPPY CLUTCH KITS. Some people beat the crap out of their stock clutch and lasts them more than 100K miles. Other folks "Baby" the clutch and craps out at 25K miles. It is a crapshoot with the OEM clutches.
The MINI clutches are sourced from German parts maker LuK. LuK makes OEM clutches for several applications in the automotive industry and some cars with LuK clutches are known to have issues.
This may not be your experience, but just a "heads up" that going manual transmission does not equal = 100% rock solid reliability mostly because of the OEM clutch kits.
Replacing a clutch in a 1st gen MINI is a 9-10 hour job as the engine basically has to come out. At dealer rates, replacing the flywheel and clutch disc could get very costly. Seek and independent if these repairs are done outside of the warranty.
The Cooper S hardtop and Cabrio have a 6-speed GETRAG sourced manual transmission with dual cone syncronizers (a la Porsche). In 2005, MINI revised the gear ratios of the Getrag in the Cooper S (R52-R53) and made 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear much shorter in comparison to early (2002-2004) Cooper S equipped with the same transmission. Big difference in acceleration from a bone stock 2002-2004 MCS to a 2005-2008 R52-R53 Cooper S manual.
The weak link, if you will, of ALL manual transmission equipped MINIs is the CRAPPY CLUTCH KITS. Some people beat the crap out of their stock clutch and lasts them more than 100K miles. Other folks "Baby" the clutch and craps out at 25K miles. It is a crapshoot with the OEM clutches.
The MINI clutches are sourced from German parts maker LuK. LuK makes OEM clutches for several applications in the automotive industry and some cars with LuK clutches are known to have issues.
This may not be your experience, but just a "heads up" that going manual transmission does not equal = 100% rock solid reliability mostly because of the OEM clutch kits.
Replacing a clutch in a 1st gen MINI is a 9-10 hour job as the engine basically has to come out. At dealer rates, replacing the flywheel and clutch disc could get very costly. Seek and independent if these repairs are done outside of the warranty.
#31
Last but not least, in the second gen MINI, 6-speed manual Getrags are offered in both Cooper and Cooper S R55/R56 and R57 (All new cabrio) models.
The CVT was discontinued for the second gen MINI. All MINI automatic transmissions currently used in the assembly line are the same exact 6-speed AISIN automatic been used in the Cooper S since 2005. If you buy a new Cooper R56/R55 or R57 automatic, instead of getting the old CVT, now you get the same exact AISIN automatic 6-speed as the Cooper S with paddle shifters and all.
US spec 2002-2008 1st generation Cooper hardtops and Convertibles equipped with the ZF CVT transmission DO NOT HAVE STEERING WHEEL PADDLES. This is an easy way to know whether the car you are driving is a CVT or an AISIN slushbox.
Factory steering wheel mounted paddle shifters were offered in the Cooper CVT models sold in Canada and other world markets. However, these paddle CVT shifters were never offered from the factory in US spec MINI Cooper automatics.
The CVT was discontinued for the second gen MINI. All MINI automatic transmissions currently used in the assembly line are the same exact 6-speed AISIN automatic been used in the Cooper S since 2005. If you buy a new Cooper R56/R55 or R57 automatic, instead of getting the old CVT, now you get the same exact AISIN automatic 6-speed as the Cooper S with paddle shifters and all.
US spec 2002-2008 1st generation Cooper hardtops and Convertibles equipped with the ZF CVT transmission DO NOT HAVE STEERING WHEEL PADDLES. This is an easy way to know whether the car you are driving is a CVT or an AISIN slushbox.
Factory steering wheel mounted paddle shifters were offered in the Cooper CVT models sold in Canada and other world markets. However, these paddle CVT shifters were never offered from the factory in US spec MINI Cooper automatics.
#33
I hope its appropriate to mention that I may have an S for sale which may fit your requirements https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=141081 and I'm just south of you.
As for the question at hand I'd go for an 05 over and 06 because if I'm remembering right (and around here I'll be corrected in a hurry), the gear rations on the 06 were shortened considerably. That gives you better 0-60, but somewhat less relaxed when cruising. They always seemed to be mucking around with the gear ratios and by the time the 05 came along I'm cruising at an indicated 75 and doing about 3500 revs. Its a little frenetic. The 06s are supposed to be even worse.
It is better than the 04 Cooper which didn't have a 6th gear and always seemed to be missing it, but isn't as good as the 07 Cooper (and supposedly the 08 S) which cruises nice and relaxed at 3k revs (or higher).
As for the question at hand I'd go for an 05 over and 06 because if I'm remembering right (and around here I'll be corrected in a hurry), the gear rations on the 06 were shortened considerably. That gives you better 0-60, but somewhat less relaxed when cruising. They always seemed to be mucking around with the gear ratios and by the time the 05 came along I'm cruising at an indicated 75 and doing about 3500 revs. Its a little frenetic. The 06s are supposed to be even worse.
It is better than the 04 Cooper which didn't have a 6th gear and always seemed to be missing it, but isn't as good as the 07 Cooper (and supposedly the 08 S) which cruises nice and relaxed at 3k revs (or higher).
#34
I hope its appropriate to mention that I may have an S for sale which may fit your requirements https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=141081 and I'm just south of you.
As for the question at hand I'd go for an 05 over and 06 because if I'm remembering right (and around here I'll be corrected in a hurry), the gear rations on the 06 were shortened considerably. That gives you better 0-60, but somewhat less relaxed when cruising. They always seemed to be mucking around with the gear ratios and by the time the 05 came along I'm cruising at an indicated 75 and doing about 3500 revs. Its a little frenetic. The 06s are supposed to be even worse.
It is better than the 04 Cooper which didn't have a 6th gear and always seemed to be missing it, but isn't as good as the 07 Cooper (and supposedly the 08 S) which cruises nice and relaxed at 3k revs (or higher).
As for the question at hand I'd go for an 05 over and 06 because if I'm remembering right (and around here I'll be corrected in a hurry), the gear rations on the 06 were shortened considerably. That gives you better 0-60, but somewhat less relaxed when cruising. They always seemed to be mucking around with the gear ratios and by the time the 05 came along I'm cruising at an indicated 75 and doing about 3500 revs. Its a little frenetic. The 06s are supposed to be even worse.
It is better than the 04 Cooper which didn't have a 6th gear and always seemed to be missing it, but isn't as good as the 07 Cooper (and supposedly the 08 S) which cruises nice and relaxed at 3k revs (or higher).
That is not true. MINI did not make any further changes to the gear ratios of the Cooper or Cooper S for the 2006 model year. '06s MINI are essentially carryover 2005's save a few last production year packages, editions and colors.
#36
Then you will be happier with a pre-2005 MCS. The first 3 gears are taller and 6th allows for a little less RPMs at cruise speed. Also they are like 2-3 MPH faster at top speeds than the 2005+.
#40
JUST BOUGHT MY MINI
Actually, put a $200 deposit on it with my paying the balance next Tues-Wed when my ship [cash] comes in. The owner let me take all the manuals and tool kit since I was so happy about the stuff being in the car.
Details:
2006 Mini Cabriolet [not an S, but it is exactly what I wanted in terms of speed and power, so it's fine for me.]
Red, black leather interior.
ONLY 23,000 miles. June 2006 service date, so warranty runs to June 2010.
Has a package did not know existed: the "Cold Package" so it has the climate control.
Premium sound, Harmon Kardon.
I like that in the glove box was the original Mini plastic folder with manuals and other goodies [some kind of sun tattoo sheet, message cards.]
5 speed manual, love the way it drives. If not an S model, manual tranny is the way to go, IMHO.
Everything works, top too. In fact, top looks new.
No dents, dings, or scratches.
Tires show even tread wear.
All in excellent condition.
Guess since people were talking price, I'll tell ya. $20,000. They were firm on price as that was the payoff.
Great seller. Nice person and I was glad to help them out [selling car due to job loss.]
They had it for sale on one of those private party car lots where you pay the lot people to show the car, but there are no salesmen. She said they get $150 if car sells.
Strange of strange: This car looks almost exactly like the one I was "renting" from City Car Share just yesterday. With the exception that mine has beautiful black leather [I think it's leather trim.]
And in line with other members, because I am in California will have to pay about $1700 sales tax, reg that is due in June, probably about $450, and I think it has to be smogged, another $100 and title/transfer fees, another $100. So about $2500 additional is what I figure.
BUT A GREAT CAR FOR $22,500. I'm loving life. I came in about $3000 under what I expected to pay for a 2006 Cab.
And SUPER THANKS TO ALL THE MEMBERS FOR TIPS. I WOULD NOT HAVE GOT A 2006 WITHOUT YOUR MOST EXCELLENT ADVICE!
Pic of car on the lot is here [even though I took my camera, forgot to take pics]:
http://www.heartinsanfrancisco.com/mynewmini.jpg
Details:
2006 Mini Cabriolet [not an S, but it is exactly what I wanted in terms of speed and power, so it's fine for me.]
Red, black leather interior.
ONLY 23,000 miles. June 2006 service date, so warranty runs to June 2010.
Has a package did not know existed: the "Cold Package" so it has the climate control.
Premium sound, Harmon Kardon.
I like that in the glove box was the original Mini plastic folder with manuals and other goodies [some kind of sun tattoo sheet, message cards.]
5 speed manual, love the way it drives. If not an S model, manual tranny is the way to go, IMHO.
Everything works, top too. In fact, top looks new.
No dents, dings, or scratches.
Tires show even tread wear.
All in excellent condition.
Guess since people were talking price, I'll tell ya. $20,000. They were firm on price as that was the payoff.
Great seller. Nice person and I was glad to help them out [selling car due to job loss.]
They had it for sale on one of those private party car lots where you pay the lot people to show the car, but there are no salesmen. She said they get $150 if car sells.
Strange of strange: This car looks almost exactly like the one I was "renting" from City Car Share just yesterday. With the exception that mine has beautiful black leather [I think it's leather trim.]
And in line with other members, because I am in California will have to pay about $1700 sales tax, reg that is due in June, probably about $450, and I think it has to be smogged, another $100 and title/transfer fees, another $100. So about $2500 additional is what I figure.
BUT A GREAT CAR FOR $22,500. I'm loving life. I came in about $3000 under what I expected to pay for a 2006 Cab.
And SUPER THANKS TO ALL THE MEMBERS FOR TIPS. I WOULD NOT HAVE GOT A 2006 WITHOUT YOUR MOST EXCELLENT ADVICE!
Pic of car on the lot is here [even though I took my camera, forgot to take pics]:
http://www.heartinsanfrancisco.com/mynewmini.jpg
Last edited by MichaelSF; 05-23-2008 at 08:26 PM.
#41
Ran the Kelly Blue Book numbers and have to say I am pleased.
Wholesale: $19,675
Private Party: $22,735
Retail: $26,000
Even though they had it at a more than fair price, I tried to get it for $18.5, but they would not go lower than $20k [asking price was $20,500.]
Never hurts to ask, eh. When they said they were firm on $20k I folded like a cheap suit and said "OK" about 5 seconds later.
Wholesale: $19,675
Private Party: $22,735
Retail: $26,000
Even though they had it at a more than fair price, I tried to get it for $18.5, but they would not go lower than $20k [asking price was $20,500.]
Never hurts to ask, eh. When they said they were firm on $20k I folded like a cheap suit and said "OK" about 5 seconds later.
#42
Has a package did not know existed: the "Cold Package" so it has the climate control.
But the cold package is a great bonus (I think a must) for cabrios -- heated seats allow top down motoring on those cool evenings and extend the top down motoring by at least one month into the fall/winter.
#43
#44
When I "rented" the Mini Cab the other night did the same thing. Was so much fun to relive old times [have not had a convertible for awhile.]
In fact, my friend drove it to the airport and back and she said "If you are going to get a Mini you have to get a convertible. Why would you get anything else." That ride she took at night sold her on it.
And I don't have to tell you how cool it is riding a Mini late at night on San Francisco hills with the top down to the Safeway store. We were in Disneyland and did not want the park to close. Meh... had to give up my City Car Share Mini in the morning.
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