Hey everyone...

I've been reading for quite a few weeks in the buildup to my MC order, finally joined to ask a question of you kind folks.

My question is this... I'm stuck at an impassé; I've test driven both the Cooper S and the standard MC w/ CVT and I'm torn. While the MCS is an absolute scream to drive (especially in the 30-80mph area; thank god for Global Imports Atlanta being so generous on the test drive) I can't decide if it's worth the price difference.

I mostly drive in the city, my daily commute is 4 miles each way (but takes 30 minutes due to city traffic) with no highway driving at all. Part of me REALLY wants to get a CVT loaded w/ options (premium, H/K audio, sport seats, auto wipers) to have a nice comfortable ride on my daily commute. The other part of me can't get that thrilling punch delivered in the 4k+ RPM range on the Cooper S out of my mind. The problem is I can really only afford a stripped-down S (probably just the auto A/C to tell the truth).

So, to those of you who have one or the other (CVT or bare-bones MCS) do you wish you had decided differently? Do you CVT owners find yourselves longing for more power? Do the MCS driving crowd wish they'd gone w/ the standard MC and gotten more premium options?

Any advice you can offer is most welcome...

 

I have an MCS (albeit not stripped down, though far from loaded) and for the type of driving that you're describing, I'd say that perhaps the MC CVT would be more comfortable. I frequently drive in heavy traffic and sometimes, after a long day at work, when I'm cranky and hungry and just want to get home but I can't because people around here don't know how to maintain speed through tunnels, I wish I didn't have to:

shift into first
takeoff
get almost off the clutch
reengage the clutch
throw it in neutral
coast
shift into first...

BUT

I am also given to a lot of free-roamin' highway driving for my own enjoyment and travel. So, while I may suffer during the week, I know there's a reward because workaday traffic isn't ALL that I do.

So if you think you'll actually get enough chance tto have fun to justify the added expense and diminished luxuries an MCS would represent, then perhaps go for it. If you think that that sounds great but unlikely, perhaps lean more toward the CVT. I must also say that a stripped down car is fun... if you're really DRIVING it--because then you don't really need anything else. But if you're going to be sitting in it alot, then some luxuries are nice.

Take from taht what you will, and most of all.... Good Luck!

 

Practicality is not the MINI way. Go with what makes you feel happiest. You're going to drive the car for a long time. If you are into normal, boring drives in stop and go traffic, never leaving your rut in the road for a different path. Stay with a CVT. I purchased a Cooper 5 speed, loved the drive for 28,600 miles, and traded Blue Bayou in for a 2003 Cooper S in the same color. Took the wife a day or two to discover it was a different car. Blue Bayou Two, is the younger, faster, more agile brother. Same great drive, with more mid-range torgue. In bumper to bumper traffic, you'll really appreciate the CVT over the S. The S pressure plate will make your left left stronger in regular stop and go commutes. The Cooper is much lighter on the clutch. If you are debating, try he Cooper 5 speed. It's a fast car, and 1300 cheaper than the CVT. I hope I've helped instead of confused you farther.

Scott

 

I've heard that the 5-speed has a particularly (annoyingly) tall 2nd gear? The problem is the Global Imports Atlanta Mini dealership is all out of 5 speeds for me to test on :

The CVT DID seem like it needed a bit more "zip". Would moving to the 5-speed (and thus having even more money to spend on options) improve performance noticeably?

The one option I really don't want to give up is the sunroof... maybe I can get together enough cash to score a stock MCS + sunroof.

As a side note, if I COULDN'T get up the extra cash, would it be possible to add a sunroof later?

Thanks for the feedback!

 

I hate to be an alarmist, and may get some flack for this, but based on what I've been reading lately I'd be pretty wary of getting a 5-speed Cooper right now due to the transmission longevity issues. The MCS transmission hasn't been any problem, and it seems like BMW may have worked the bugs out of the CVT programming...but 5 speeds seem to be croaking at an alarming rate as more and more cars reach the 25K - 30K point this winter.

With your commute, I too would tend to recommend the CVT...unless you have weekend open road time (like OmToast does). If so, spring for the S.

BTW, as long as you're asking for advice, I'd council against going for the leather in the CVT (if you go the "loaded" route). Leather seems like a big waste of $1500 to me...again, just my opinion.

 

I haven't driven a CVT but I think the 0-60 time for a 5-speed is about 1.5 seconds quicker than the CVT. I also believe the cost of installing the sunroof later would be too high for this to be a reasonable option. I kept the list on my 5-speed right at 19,000 with sunroof, MFSW, (a must), fogs, chrome bumpers, spoiler and 16" wheels. Try to find a 5-speed to drive before deciding.

 

I have a MCS with the sport package. The choice between the Cooper and the S was not much a question. I thought since I am getting a new car I am going to get with I really want. The extra power is great on trips and in traffic when you really need to get into a lane or pass on a two lane road. The sunroof is nice and I'm glad I got it but I really only use it once in a while. It is very noisy at freeway speeds and when it is closed I have made shades to block out the sun because the car gets pretty toasty. The xenon headlights a awesome, be sure to get these.
If I were to get the Cooper, I think the 5 speed would give you more performance for getting around traffic. Good Luck

 

I'm assuming your planning on buy your new MINI. A car is the world's Best depreciating assest! Don't buy it LEASE and let BMW take the hit on the lossin the coming years. Sounds like you don't need much miles but I wouldn't go less than 12k per year. Look at a 36,39, 42 month lease . This will give you a better per month price on the car you really want, A LOADED COOPER S !

In 3 or so years when the new Mini is becoming a little old turn it in and then buy one if you want to keep it until your 80. Plus the moddel then may have some new gadgets or a more powerful motor !

Lease it !

I was in car business for 5 years ! email me if you have any questions :

timj1231@yahoo.com

 

>>Hey everyone...
>>
>>I've been reading for quite a few weeks in the buildup to my MC order, finally joined to ask a question of you kind folks.
>>
>>My question is this... I'm stuck at an impassé; I've test driven both the Cooper S and the standard MC w/ CVT and I'm torn. While the MCS is an absolute scream to drive (especially in the 30-80mph area; thank god for Global Imports Atlanta being so generous on the test drive) I can't decide if it's worth the price difference.
>>
>>I mostly drive in the city, my daily commute is 4 miles each way (but takes 30 minutes due to city traffic) with no highway driving at all. Part of me REALLY wants to get a CVT loaded w/ options (premium, H/K audio, sport seats, auto wipers) to have a nice comfortable ride on my daily commute. The other part of me can't get that thrilling punch delivered in the 4k+ RPM range on the Cooper S out of my mind. The problem is I can really only afford a stripped-down S (probably just the auto A/C to tell the truth).
>>
>>So, to those of you who have one or the other (CVT or bare-bones MCS) do you wish you had decided differently? Do you CVT owners find yourselves longing for more power? Do the MCS driving crowd wish they'd gone w/ the standard MC and gotten more premium options?
>>
>>Any advice you can offer is most welcome...

Juan Paco:

I have both sitting in my drievway...a '02 Cooper CVT (Bare bones only option is the MFSW) and a semi-base '04 MCS. Both are fantastic cars but they do deliver different driving experiences. In my experience a "Bare bones" MINI is hardly a stripper type of car...specially the MCS model. You are already getting a pretty loaded car for $19,999. Any "expert" in this forum will tell you that the best way to enjoy the MCS is to buy the most basic version as where the regular Cooper/Cooper CVT model is concerned, it is better to get more options but honestly even a basic Cooper is more car than you'll ever need if you know what I mean.

Here is how I configured my '04 MCS:

CR/W
16" Silver V-spokes
Harmon Kardon
Manual A/C
Panther Black Leatherette sports seats
Trip Computer
Sport MFSWFront fogs
Automatic wipers
Automatic rearview mirror (self dimming)
Anthracite trim
Chrome mirrors
Chrome front grille

Total before taxes = $21,700




PM me if you want more infor on the CVT and MCS.

_________________
'02 Cooper CVT PW/B, Bone stock (Hers)
'04 MCS CR/W/Chrome Grille and mirror caps (His)

 

I bought a loaded MCS and love it. But...I was at the dealer the other day buying a 40 cent screw for some mod I was attempting on my own and messed up...I digress...and I saw a MCS sitting there waiting for it's new owner to come and get it.

This guy did it the way I would do it if I had another chance.

He ordered a bare bones S. No sunroof, no leather, no HK, no 17 inch wheels and tires, no nothing. Bare Bones. It was black and really nice looking. The point I am making is that if you are planning on doing mods sometime in the future, you might want to go with a bare bones S, love it as is, and then mess with it later. I forget his price on the window but I think it was 19,500.

After doing some things to my car and wanting to do some other things which would effect the interior, I really wish I'd gone with bare bones (for instance I'd like to change the front seats but would feel really foolish after getting the leather, and have already changed the wheels and tires after paying extra for the S Lites and runflats).

Look either way you will enjoy the hell out of your new toy.

Ken

 

One more thing...Long Beach Mini in So Cal will not accept a down payment. No surcharge, no downpayment. Just a good buying experience.

If you want to deal with them and have me drive it to you, let me know. I work cheap, but I can't vouch for my new Mini break in skills.


Ken

 

JPL,

I know exactly what you're going thru. I felt the same way. What to get in a $20K MINI?

My excellent MA, asked me "How and where do you drive?' He then shut-up and let me talk and talk and talk.

After I finally decided with his diredtion, I asked him what he was listening for. He said:

1) How much driving over 4K rpms. - very little except good acceleration when needed/showing off
2) Where will I be driving - mostly communting to work on busy 4 lane and Interstate (17 miles one way)
3) A few weekend get-a-ways with my wife and she might drive a little (she drives an auto Civic EX)
4) Letting my 20 year old daughter drive for fun (instead of her auto Saturn) maybe (in case she reads this)

My decision - a MC with Pac #1, CVT, Sport leatherette Seats, R-82s, 3-spoke steering, Standard CD - hey, I"m a talk radio guy.

My ego wanted basic MCS - but a comfortable/sporty MC is on the boat right now and heading for the DC in a couple of days. The CVT was a blast to drive. Fun when I wanted to shift myself and simple when I wanted to enjoy roof open motoring or fighting bumper to bumper commute.

I can't wait to get it!!! By the way, the MINI (purchased thru MINI Finance) replaces a leased Jeep Wrangler.

 

if you're strapped for cash, get a 5-speed Cooper. No insurance hike like a Cooper S, and relatively little aftermarket temptation. The CVT is a rolling sedative, even for a 4 mile commute, IMO

My perfect spec 5-speed MC:
1st off, wait until the Getrag 5-speed enters production - the Midlands is BLEUGHK!
anyway...
Jet black/white with white 15" 7-hole wheels
Kaleido Black upholstery with Silver trim
Sunroof, Multi-function 2-spoke wheel, Sport seats, Xenon, front Fogs, and harman/kardon - $19,709 inc. destination, + tax and stuff.

Good luck, and Cheers,
Ryan

 

Little aftermarket temptation? Bwahahaha. You're kidding me. Have you read any threads regarding Cooper mods?

There is nothing annoying about the tall second gear on the Cooper 5 speed. I have one. The car is fast enough to get you into plenty of trouble. Yes, there have been problems with the tranny, but knock on wood - I have 31.5 K on my '02 right now, so far so good. No matter which way you go, you'll have plenty of good times driving the car.

 

I think you should get the MCS with sunroof or premium package and the front fogs. Redefine you definition of boring drive in your new 6 speed with super-charger! If you get the S you will really have nothing to regret and if you can't afford it then don't do it at all.

What's it gonna be?

 

JPL

Leave the deposit via Credit Card, they will probably only take an authorization, and if you have to back out you will most likely be able to get away without losing any money. See if they will let you give the Credit Card number over the phone or by fax so you never really sign anything.

funny thing is my dealership ran my CC for $1000 after I had already financed the car. I called them and they offered to send me the cash, but I had them just credit it back to my card. Some people might have just let it go thinking it was part of the deal, to pay the $1000.

good luck brother! I would also recommend not buying the Tire warranty or anything they offer. If you really want it wait for them to start to come down in price and refuse to pay anything over 1/2 price.

 

We recent took delivery of a MCS with everything but NAV and park distance. All the toys are cool, but if I was strapped for cash, the two things I wouldn't want to live without are the MFSW and Xenon lights. If you can afford a MCS with those two options, I'd go that route.

The Premuim package is nice, but fluff (OBC is cool though). HK is so-so. The leather sucks, so sport seats are out (you can do leather later cheaper). Auto wipers are neat and only $100 or so, might want to add those just cuz they are cheap.

 

here's my 2 cents. 4 mile commute? hmmm thats not that bad to endure a 6spd. Imagine the fun you will have on the weekends!!
. my commute for the last 10 yrs has really woke up since I got my S. Theres the quarter mile after warm up, a few stop lights where other drivers lust after the MINI. Next thing we know its the on ramp to the freeway a too short blast 5 miles to a killer sweeping off ramp to my work campus. Then there's the temptation of driving by the young police academy cadets standing at attention at the flag pole each morning 7:20 AM as I coast to my parking place Its takes so much not to do a nice downshift right in front of em. But I know they will not forget the cute EB/W S better to keep our memory un soiled for the present time.

You will enjoy either car, but if you have some Paddy H. flowing in your veins, you will not be able to forget those S test drives. Better not to drive an S ever.
Get yourself an S with 16's xenons, sunroof and wake up your commute.

 

My MCS should be arriving the middle of this month. I've been through the options over and over
and have come to the conclusion that less is more. Must haves are the MFSW, 16" v-spokes, front
fogs, athracite for durabilty. If you live in cold weather climes then the Cold Weather Pkg. is must.
I don' t like the sunroof - without some type of cover the car gets pretty hot inside.

My car will have the above plus the on board computer and HK stereo and that's all. Comes to
about $21,839. That's with Chili Red (non metallic). Not bad, so if you can squeeze a few more
bucks then go for the MCS. Like others have said, a stripped down MCS is still pretty loaded and it'll
be lighter and peppier to boot! I don't have the Cold Weather Pkg. but I wish I did - the heated seats
come in handy after a tough day.




_________________
Planning 2b a MCS owner!

 

I really thought I had my mind made up to go with the CVT.... but after reading so many glowing endorsements of the MCS I'm unsure.

My problem is this....

After taxes, dealer fees, etc. the car needs to be 23,000 or less. I can go over that figure by MAYBE $400-500, but I'm already stretching my new-car budget a bit higher than I'd originally planned as is.

A base MCS + sunroof is $21,299 before taxes. At 7% tax, it is $22,789 before the dealer prep and doc fees. They told me at the dealership that I should count on about $595 for dealer prep and another $399 for doc fees. That brings the total to $23,783.

This (for me) is a POSSIBLE amount, but it goes over what my down payment/financing will cover by about $800.

I suppose I could always increase my financing amount by $1k or so, but I'd really prefer not to.

Let me ask those of you that have one... how often do you use the sunroof? Is the light coming through that mesh material really that big of a problem? If the consesus is that the sunroof isn't worth it, I may take a much more serious look at the MCS. It does, as many have pointed out, have much standard equipment out of the box. I can always pimp it out with an aftermarket stereo (instead of the H/K) and the like. Is the Automatic A/C something to truly miss (or does the stock work fairly well)?

Thanks again for all the great input... you guys rock!

 

JuanPaco, are you in Miami by any chance?

As for the sunroof....I live in Miami and neither one of my 2 MINIs was ordered with the panorama sunroof. The reasons were mainly cost, added weight and the fact that the MINI's sunroof does not come with a solid shade but rather with a flimsy sunscreen. It is too hot in Miami year round (With the exception of a few days during Dec-Jan) here for me to really get to use and enjoy the sunroof, so I decided to skip it alltogether. If you live in a colder, less humid northern climate it may be worth it (Like in the Pacific Northwest) but in Florida is a waste of $$$.

If you have to have the sunroof and live in a hot climate, you can purchase a perforrated flag roof decal that can help filter out some of the added light/heat going into the cabin.


I bought my MINIs in Ft Lauderdale, FL (Lauderdale MINI) because I can't stand the Miami dealers. Also if you buy a MINI in Lauderdale MINI, you pay Broward county's sales tax of only 6% versus 7% in Miami-Dade county :smile:

 

The stock manual A/C controls work great and are pretty straightforward to use. IMO, there is no need for "Automatic A/C" on a car the size of the MINI. Save the $300 on this useless option.

 

I think the S is just a lot more car for the money. Engine is much better. Forged crank & rods, inconel exhaust valves, different, better main bearings, oil squirters under pistons, special piston rings. The trans. is much stronger. The SSP is a more sporty, faster ride. I think the S will depreciate slower because it is so much better for the money and demand is higher. The real decision is CVT or MCS. If you don't really know and plan on upgrading, maybe lease for 3 yrs then get the Peugeot twin cam 256 hp. cooper in 2007

 

I've got a 02 MCS with the premium and sport pkgs plus a few odds and ends. The sunroof does let in a lot of light. I've got a Cooper Flags custom ordered decal over it to cut down on the sun (I live in Fl.).

The automatic AC is nice but not a must have. Granted I haven't touched the controls on it in months but is the money worth that?

Sit back, think on what you truly want then place your order. Just don't stretch yourself financially. You'll regret that more.

 

I was in the same boat, I could either get a nicely equipped cooper or a strippy cooper s. Then Right after I sold my old car another option came up. I bought a used 02 s with leather/sport/and premium with 15k on it for less than a base s with no options. I was lucky to find it, but they are out there if you look.