My understanding with the limited slip differential is that the power is preferentially shifted TO the wheel that's NOT slipping. Shifting power to the wheel that's slipping is a major design flaw.

 

powerband, you mis-read what brgfan said... brgfan was describing what normally happens without LSD, then said "LSD overcomes this".

 

LSD keeps the tires from slipping, which in turn keeps the ASC+T from activating. (atleast not activating as soon)

with LSD:
very little slip...very little nanny...

without LSD:
alot of slip...alot of nanny...


hope that sums it all up

 

When reading about DSC (or, more accurately, ASC+T) being "hazardous", try to take note of the car in question. Most will be MCSes with some power adding mods on them. I'm sure trying to put the power down with a JCW MCS or one with a pulley / intake / etc, especially with stock tires, would be difficult.

On my Cooper with sticky summer tires, it's not a problem. Heck, with 98,000 miles on the engine and clutch, I don't know if I could get wheelspin from a standing start if I wanted to.

I do turn the DSC off when I'm autocrossing or at a track day, but it stays on for daily driving, and even for "fun" driving on public roads. If I'm on a public road and the DSC / ASC+T activates, I'm being dumb and deserve to be slowed down.

 

Yes, I have an MCS, but bone stock. And yet, there is one particular shoping center exit with an uneven lip of pavement as you exit and make a 90 degree right turn onto the cross street. The front right wheel goes over this lip as I accelerate and and turn. EVERY time I exit, the ASC+T, or DSC (whatever) thinks, "OH NO, one wheel's not turning at the proper speed, we're making a turn, we must be out of control!" My power is cut, and I'm a road block with traffic closing fast from behind. With luck, they slow down, my car comes to its senses, and I finally accelerate. This is a real, actual hazard in a stock MCS.

I've learned to anticipate this and kill the DSC before I exit at this location, but similar situations come up from time to time elsewhere, and they can be hair-raising. I think the problem is that ASC+T/DSC, for all its magic, is just not very smart. It should be possible to sense that the car is making a turn from a stop (or from a very low speed) and is accelerating. Under those conditions ADC+T/DSC should be programed to not kick in, or to pay more attention to lateral force, and only kick in if I'm actually moving sideways.

 

What you are suggesting, is exactly what I have talked about before, and wish we could get... all of the DSC-unique functions WITHOUT ASC+T. I would LOVE it if our MCSes had the option of DSC minus ASC+T. Unfortunately we don't. We get the "bad" stuff regardless (ASC+T), and we have to pay extra to add the "good" stuff (DSC) on top of the bad stuff.

 

DSC; $500 for Software, reminds me too much of Bill Gates being the richest man in the world and promising in 6 months he'll send you the updates to make it work right, "I promise, just buy it now".

LSD; a mechanical device I can actually see and touch and could be repaired or rebuilt under warranty if it screws up somehow.

Guess which one I hope to have on my next MINI?

"powerband - your bike doesn't have any of these features... but do you (or would you) ride your bike in the rain or snow, if you could help it? I don't think it's a fair comparison, to be honest."

WELL...maybe not SNOW, but you aren't much of a BIKER if you can't or won't ride in the RAIN, IMO.

 

The key words were "if you could help it". I suspect that most bikers who, leaving home, and having the option of a car or bike to take... would take the car if there was moderate or heavy rain. Correct me if I'm wrong, but while biking can indeed be done in the rain, due to the increased risks it becomes "only when necessary" for many riders.

 

OK, you're WRONG. Those aren't bikers, they're weekend warriors. Bikers actually use their bikes for transportation, weather doesn't really come into it that much. You ride because that's what you do. As the cowboys say in Wyoming, "only fools and easterners try and predict the weather."

One of the best track races I ever saw was in a torrential downpour at Daytona, plenty of guys ***** footing around were sliding down, the winners you never could tell it was raining from watching them, braking, leaning accelerating, passing. They were that good.

Go watch a flatrack race some day, those guys are sliding around in loose dirt and doing all of it. Some don't even have brakes. Dry riders are just inexperienced and fearful.

It's so darn hot down here in the summer, I actually hope for a good dowsing to cool things off.

 

What was this thread about?

 

Safe driving, all vehicles and inclement conditions, with or without a software program to assist you...

 

There was no need to be so forceful. Besides, I said for "many riders", not ALL of them... and I wasn't only talking about the diehards.

biker n.
1. One who rides a bicycle or motorbike.
2. A motorcyclist, especially a member of a motorcycle gang.

That doesn't automatically mean it's a full time lifestyle choice. Especially does not mean always, and the first definition is VERY open-ended. I'd be curious to see what percentage of registered motorcycles are the owner's ONLY vehicle, versus being a second, or recreational vehicle.

Mind you, I'd have liked to have seen that race too - I bet it was amazing to watch.

 

Now I remember, the thread was about the advantages/disadvantages of DSC and LSD.

 

OK!

I read the whole thing in detail. Even the biker thing.

LSD: allows you to peel rubber and stick from the first second. Also, allows you to push the gas hard on a turn. That's just about it. I know quite a bit of how that works. I have had it on rear ends of camaro's and muscle-ish cars.

ASCT: This seems to be the thing that slows down wheels on all MCS.

Is it on regular cooper?
Can it be disabled at will?

DSC: sounds very good for bad weather. Hit the button, drive cautiously, win win win win for all persons possibly involved. I know this is able to be disabled. I duno about the asct though.

just a tip: the 500 for limited slip is actually cheap. Just the car aint cheap. well, for someoen like me at least.

5th post/reply !

OH! I am asking this because I am trying to figure it all out before I buy one this week.

 

I like my DSC in rainy conditions...although, we haven't had much this past summer. I usually turn it off in good weather.

 

The decision has been made. I added LSD to my order. I opted for no DSC. Fair warning: don't drive near me on the twisties.

Thanks for all the great posts. By all means, please continue...

 

Can you turn off ASC-T on the MCS? or just DSC?

 

ASC+T and DSC are controlled by the same switch. You turn off both or none. As stated earlier, many of us wish there was a seperate off switch for the ASC+T.

Congrats on the decision, powerband! Now order a Auto-up/DSC module from Ian Cull (GBMINI) so you can turn off the ASC+T.

 

For clarification, the DSC option is more then just software! The DSC option includes a sensor on the steering column, so the computer knows where you are attempting to steer the car. Also, it includes accelerometers to detect which direction the car is traveling.

ASC+T on the other hand is just software on top of the ABS system.

 

it would be nice if bmw would allow some degrees of user adjustable "nanny-ishness" like the various levels of "M-Mode" in the M cars.

MTH desensitizes the DSC in their tuner software as well.

i'd like to have it on, but have it able to realize that i'm only barking the 1-2 shift or taking a tight corner, not headed sideways off a curve at 90 mph.

of course, if i am headed sideways off a curve at 90, i'd lke it to help.

BMW knows how to do this, they just haven't (yet) shared with little brother...

 

I believe that both the insurance institute and NHTSA completed studies of dynamic stability control systems. Both concluded that a third or more of all accidents migth be avoided by their use. They highly recommend using them. A google search should pull both studies.

 

Yeah, from a safety point of view I don't see any reason not to get it (other than you're $500 worse off)

That said, with crappy stock all season tires last year here in cold snowy Canada, I've only had 1 time where the back end came out when I didn't expect it, and that is when I was being dumb and pushing the car too hard in a corner over a crest while it was snowing out. DSC will help but seriously, the nut behind the wheel is the biggest factor.

 

I believe that these Nanny's would serve a very good purpose on those big lumbering non handling SUV's. On a car like a MINI with very good handling it isn't needed. At least not on my car.

 

I disagree with you here.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fG3cOEW53ag

For anyone who wants to know what DSC can do on extreme situations just look at this video. Granted I don't think Tiff tried very hard with the DSC turned off, but it was 70mph and it was sheet ice. There is no way anyone can do better than with DSC on in that situation in any case.

 

That's what you'll think... until you need it. And I have, in my MINI... with all of the (OEM) upgrades on it. Poor road conditions can have a funny way of turning your awesome-handling MINI into a scarier beast than you expected!