FWIW, DSC is WAY more than just traction control. It is a stability control that uses traction control, ABS, and the corner braking system. You can read all about it here:

DSC Explained

whoops, looks like jaridp beat me to it. Although my HTML skillz are way more rockin' than his

 

IMO, snow tires are a must if one plans to drive any serious distance in the snow. I have snow tires and DSC and the MINI is a rock star snow car, aside from standing starts and hill climbing it is better and safer in the snow than 95% of SUVs and AWD cars out there i would say.

 

ugh! that's horrible advice.

 

Minis without DSC still have traction control. It comes standard along with ABS and CBC. The DSC is an optional system that makes them all work together. There has to be a way to turn off the fuel cutoff part of it though! That is the part that could potentially cause more problems. In the rain, if you try to make a fast left with traffic coming, the wheel spin will cut off the fuel and possibly get you into a nasty situation.

Does MTH or other remaps help with this aspect of the traction control?

 

[quote=AliceCooperWA;1314165]Minis without DSC still have traction control. It comes standard along with ABS and CBC.quote]
Incorrect. The MINI Cooper has no traction control standard. Hop in a cooper....drop the clutch and hit the gas...wheelspin..therefore no traction control.

 

DSC is great, but it's not a "What did we do without it!" kind of option. Get the color, and spend a couple bucks on a winter driving school or autocross school so *you* can control the car better. Example: My mini club is putting on a winter driving experience that will cost like $60 for members and that includes lunch... other clubs do similar.

DSC makes up, somewhat, for differences in driver skill. It does NOT repeal the laws of physics! If you're going , for example, *just* fast enough where an OK driver would skid out but an expert driver could recover, it'll help recover. If you're going just a little faster, no amount of driver skill (or DSC!) can really help.

The statement that DSC is "statistically proven to save lives..." etc. smacks of the old ABS arguments. Drivers adapt and, knowing they have ABS, drive faster - hey I have ABS, it will save me! The TOTAL lives saved are far short of those initially proposed. Why?
- Nothing repeals the laws of physics. Good driving technique must still apply.
- A driver must know how to USE the ABS. Don't just brake, ABS allows you to brake AND STEER!

Don't get me wrong - it ALL can be helpful, and I really like ABS, DSC and traction control (if I can disable it). There are situations where turning them some of all of these systems OFF will improve performance IF the driver knows what he/she is doing.

[soapbox]
It still amazes me the time and money people will put into piano lessons, cheerleading, soccer camps, and other hobbies that mean nothing more, really, than "entertainment"... THEN when it comes to perhaps the riskiest activity we regularly engage in... driving... we rely on a single, dirt-simple Driver's Ed course, maybe taken once, as a teenager. We then spend a lifetime practicing possibly-bad habits and trying to high-tech automate our way out of it. Ugh. I want better.
[/soapbox]

Get the car!

(besides - driving classes are FUN!)

 

I believe that depends upon the model year. The early (2002-2003) Coopers either had DSC or nothing. I think the newer ones come with traction control standard.

 

Negative...Im positive that NO Coopers have DSC or ASC+T standard...at least in the US market. Even the Cooper convertibles have DSC as an "option". The Cooper S however has always had ASC standard.....

 

the power cuts off too much from my experience. light snow like on
wet roads is fine, but snowy roads is better tackled with snow tires.

 

oh so you want to drive on snowy roads on a/s or summer tires and DSC
rather than on snow tires. ok you go ahead.

 

I'm glad you said performance in there. If you are pushing your MINI past where DSC would normally cut you off, you really should be on the track. I have yet to find it necessary to disable these systems on public roads.

It's amazing what a different thread will make. I got blasted in this thread for correcting people on the difference of Traction Control and DSC and for suggesting leaving it enabled as it's an effective safety device.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=88893

As for DSC's safety effectiveness, well the numbers are always disputed. However, it's considered effective enough that the NHTSA will mandate it on all cars by 2012.

 

The power cut-off is one of the features I always disliked about DSC... but that's also one more reason why everyone needs to experience an MTH-tuned car, as it really does make leaving DSC on a viable option, even in dry conditions. I mean, it is no where near as aggressive as it is in stock form and really gets you going when you need to without the unnecessary loss of power upon tire spin. As a side note, prior to my MTH tune, I never turned DSC on as I always felt it was far too sensitive. I even went out of my way to purchase the automatic DSC disable when I installed my Ian auto-up window kit. As it stands right now, I typically drive with the DSC on most days, unless I have a sudden urge to drive spiritedly. As a final note, I just wanted to mention I'm in no way affiliated with MTH, nor being compensated, just wanted to let my opinion be known.

GotMINI

 

Understand the problem. Yet when you spend that type of $$ for a vehicle, the difference spread out over several years is quite small.

DSC as well as COLOR is an option. One may save someone you love if you ever need it. The other, will not. You never know what is around the next bend or over the next hill.

 

DSC is utterly wonderful, I have run at the track with DSC on and off. I prefer it on, its a safety net at speed, you can actually feel it working during high (and I mean really high) speed transitions, you can even allow it to help you under really late/hard braking too - the EBD keeps you straight / pointed in the correct direction. Back on the street it is utterly invaluable in the rain in SoCal because of the extremely greasy nature of the streets on the odd occasion that it does rain.

However, at low-speeds, the traction control portion it is hugely intrusive, a quick pull-away is almost impossible with DSC (and hence TC) enabled because it cuts ALL wheelspin. In a 'normal' car you absolutely know that you can shoot a gap, in the MINI you will more often than not find that the TC has killed all of the power and you are in bog city, watching a truck bear down on you as you attempt to get out of the way. The DSC/TC in my wife's 325i is utterly seamless and not even slightly intrusive, it allows a fairly large amount of wheelspin before getting it all under control, there is no large-scale power culling like the MINI.

I have posted this many times, DSC is wonderfull, amazing even. But the Traction Control system is utterly rubbish. I turn DSC off for the vast majority of the time for that reason and consider it to be a waste of money !

 

Man I have to agree 100% with that.

 

No... snow tires and DSC. I was saying that "you shouldnt be using DSC in snow anyways" is bad advice.

 

At one point, I thought that was the case. But I also seem to remember looking at miniusa.com for the details of the 2005 cars and I though I saw that ASC+T was standard on the Coopers.

In any case, I'll get by on the technicality that traction control will be standard on 2007 Coopers.

 

 

I don't get what's funny. Snid is right, making a blanket statement saying you shouldn't be using DSC in snow is a bit silly. The power cut out issue is only a problem when getting the car moving in snow, once rolling or cruising DSC generally won't cut power unless you really step on it... this simply isn't enough of a reason to keep DSC off. If you need to get out of some deep snow or get going up a snowy hill, temporarily disable DSC and put it back on once you get going.

I have snow tires and DSC. DSC doesn't give you more traction, it just helps you use the traction that is avaible to keep the car close to neutral balance. If only it would actually snow this year - I can't remember a warmer winter in the north east.

 

Yup ASC will be standard on the Cooper come 07. Ive been with MINI since they were a twinkle in BMW's eye and can promise you that other than abs,ebd, and cbc that there wasnt any other "alphabet" system for traction standard.

 

its funny cause i already explained myself on the previous page but
some people keep poking at the same thing not once, but twice and
then you come in and ask why. think forward, not backwards. i
already clarified my first post.

here...

if you take it a step further, im referring to a/s and summer tires that
MINI's come with. adding snow tires is a better way to drive over
snow if you've ever done that before. snow meaning, over 3".

 

That's what I do. Although, this one time, I was going up a snowy hill, and I was passing by all kinds of Minivans and sedans and wagons who were stuck in the middle of the road. AND, I had the DSC turned on! NE Ohio is generally a pretty snowy climate...

But yes, getting out of deep deep snow requires the DSC turned off and good ol' fashioned ROCKING the car or getting a push...

 

Mini = sun = fun! Snow = Suburban. Will probably never take my MCSc in snow on purpose. Keeping the Burb for that purpose.

 

+1 Had to do this yesterday to get movin out of a burm of snow in front of my house...after that turned it back on and whoooosh i was off!

 

Wow... thanks for all the input!!! I really, truly appreciate it.

My conclusion is I can safely go ahead and buy the car w/o DSC --it's not a question of $ it's a question of choice among the available 2006s. I do agree it is an important safety feature but I don't think that, personally, I will use it much so hence I'd rather go with my top color choice.

Reasons are:

1) I drive just for fun so I rarely drive in hard rain or snow. There's not much of either here in DC anyway.

2) I've had a 98 Cabrio for 5 years. It has nothing other than ABS and front air bags and I've only felt the tires slip once or twice in the rain. The few times I felt I was in danger was from the lack of power of the car, which the DSC will obviously not help with.

3) I like to feel I control the car which is why I absolutely HATE automatics. I think I will feel the same way about DSC.

4) I am getting a Cooper S and will have AST --not the same but probably will help in some situations.

Great input, will request my club membership as soon as the baby is home!