And if you can do that you would never have the traction control intervene. I have never had a problem with the traction control while moving and unless I need the "to he!! with tires" type of acelleration I don't have any problems at launch either.

 

Comment: "One day, those who eschew DSC under 'normal' driving conditions (i.e. not aggressive acceleration w/wheelspin, and not controlled conditions such as a real racetrack); will almost invariably find themselves in a very sticky situation and quite possibly run their MINI off the road because they ignorantly refused to believe that some technology is capable of doing things to the car that no human driver can do. Most especially if those people are even more shortsighted as to leave DSC off in slick conditions (rain, snow or even just a road with some water on it)."To clarify what bluesmini said, the "hill assist" feature is new (and therefore unique) to 2nd Gen MINIs, such as the R56 (and eventually the R55 (Clubman), R57 (2nd Gen Cabrio), etc).

 

Remember that there is much more to DSC than just the traction control. Most people are prone to confusing that fact. The traction control on the MINI is very sensitive, but the rest of the system is very benign. It won't engage until you REALLY need it.

 

I can see the point of both sides of this argument. The safety people that say it's a good thing could be right if MINI had made the system so that it only took over control when it was really needed in emergency situations. Unfortunately MINI made the system so that it comes on when it isn't needed and that is more than just a hinderance, it can be a serious liability.

I guess all the people who rave about how good it is have never gone full throttle to redline then grabbed a quick shift to second only to find the power abruptly cut completely out and have the car just sit there in the middle of the intersection, or wherever, for several seconds before it computes that it can let the motor rev again. That is one of the reasons why many people leave it switched off. If you drive conservatively then sure, you don't have a reason to shut it off.

Of course I'll leave mine on in the rain. And, if I ever have a car where the system is more of a benefit than a hinderance then I'll leave it on full time. A few more years and hopefully they'll get all bugs worked out.

BTW - My wife drives an '06 G35 coupe with the sport package (20 more hp, 6-speed, sport suspension, 19" wheels, 4WS) and it is even worse on her car! If you go around a corner nowhere even close to the limit of traction it shuts off the power. So of course it gets shut off too.

 

Funny I don't have a problem when shifting and I bet I can get to 60 before you do. If you find yourself being heldback by the traction control, then I would suggest that you need to try and control the car a bit better. Smooth is faster and safer than mash the pedal and hope for the best anyway. I track my car and have never had the need to turn DSC off.

 

I need to take this opportunity to remind everyone yet again that the system that everyone hates and finds annoying is not actually the DSC functions, but really the ASC+T functions... which were standard on every single R53 ever made anyway. Just to reiterate... you can't buy a stock R53 that doesn't have the "annoying" feature. The additional DSC functions which were available as an option on top of ASC+T are the real "meat" that can save you in many situations. DSC = good, ASC+T = annoying. Got it?

What would be really awesome is for a simple aftermarket mod that disabled the basic ASC+T functions while still keeping the DSC-specific functions enabled. Unfortunately neither MINI nor the aftermarket has yet made this possible, despite a number of BMW models that allow you to do exactly that (if I'm not mistaken).

 

I would so love that. I have just the ASC system and i find myself not having it kick in very often. Maybe i just launch differently but i really dont start open it up until my clutch is all the way in, this way i can save my tires and still get a really nice launch (as far as street driving is concerned).

That said their are a few left turns in my town were ASC comes off and and i shred my tires a little.

 

And to take it one more step.....it is not really even the ASC+T that sux......it is only the T (traction control) feature that we all hate.

 

+1.

Since the two are currrently inseparately linked, I will generically refer to the functions of both as DSC (that's how the switch is labeled). If the 2 functions were separately switched, I would keep the DSC on at all times and switch on the ASC+T only in slippery conditions.

So, when is Ian at GBMini going to get this figured out?

 

for the really curious, do some searches on the stats. The DSC is an excellent system. Every car I ever get that has it available will come so equipped.

That said, the way it's inplimentded on 02-06 Minis is pretty abrupt. Many say dangerously so.

If you want a solution, get in touch with Don at DMH (in the Vendors Section) and buy the MTH base software. It modifies the amount of power that is cut from the engine on detection of slippage (among some other things). I've even floored it through puddles without pegging the tach, and the car keeps pulling even though the tires are starting to slip.

So, if you're willing to step up to the plate, you CAN have your cake and eat it to! (And if you don't want to buy a cable, I can lend both the serial and the USB versions.... Just PM me)

Matt

also, for those that want a fix, file a complaint with the NHTSA. I've read every complaint every submitted on the Mini, and there are about 3 in the 4 years the coupe was built on this subject. If half of the people who turn it off or biatch about it on the boards registered a safety complaint, it would be fixed pronto!

 

My advice:

Take the money saved by not buying that infernal DSC & use it to go to a performace driving school. It's money well spent.

As for the DSC if it makes you feel safe then get it. Your money your choice. If you learn how to handle your car & drive within those limits you will be fine.

 

the numbers don't lie. DSC is a major lifesaver. Do you want yours to be one of them?

Do the reading, there are tons of studies out there, going back to when Mercedes was the first to widely distribute the systems. Like others have pointed out, the DSC systems can do things that are humanly impossible. The only real complaint against the one in the Mini is how it's traction control function is implemented when the motor has little torque....

Or did I miss the driving school where they taught how to actuate the brake on one corner of our car?

But like I said before, here we go again......

Matt

 

Wow! You can get it to redline BEFORE getting across the intersection?!?! Impressive.

Sorry, but it was too good a mental picture to pass up.

 

Now I'm curious. If the traction control is only the "+T", then what's the ASC do?. My car has only the ASC+T, no DSC. As far as I have ever known, it's only traction control. I always turn it off (rainy days included) - is there something else I'm missing?

 

My '06 MCS has DSC, but sometimes drives me crazy and sometimes has even put me on risk by cutting the power in the middle of an intersection! I think is good, but definetly needs retunning!

My concern is what are the differences between the LSD (Limited Slip Differencial), DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) and ASC (Automatic Stability Control)? Which option is better? Which one would you get and why? I think LSD would be the best option for performance and safety... What you think?

 

LSD is an actual mechanical part, ASC and DSC are software based.

ASC is basically lauch control, it keeps you from spinning your tires on a hard launch

DSC (on the mini anyway) is launch control along with dynamic brake balancing (when you slam on the brakes and try to turn it helps you keep the car going where you want).

LSD is something that is used to help one wheel from spinning (hence equally transfering power). Sorta like when you are in a turn and you floor it, the inside wheel starts spinning. The LSD helps prevent that.

So basically for me it is LSD + DSC with the ability to turn launch contol (ASC) off. With what DSC is capable of there really isnt a reason you should have it off.


EDIT: The threads were merged, and in my opinion ScottinBend gives a very good explanation.

 

Yep guess you did....

EDIT>>> Just kidding Matt.

 

All: This topic is one of the most frequently and repeatedly brought up... so I have done a very large thread merge in an attempt to bring the discussion to one place.

All new threads that are specifically about DSC vs. ASC or the pros & cons of either... will be merged with this one.

If any of you find other threads that you think are on the same topic, let me know and I'll merge them too.

However, threads specifically talking about DSC vs. LSD are not really the same topic, as LSD is a completely different animal.

 

 

Actually, it's pretty easy, but visibility sucks because of the billowing clouds of accrid rubber smoke.

 

From my manual it says that ASC also includes the Cornering Brake Control (CBC) and the
Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD)
in the system. So I am guessing that that means it is not just the traction control.

Anyone know for sure?

 

ASC is for wheel spin only. be it from a stop light or because you hit a patch of leaves, water snow ect.

DCS is all of that and it uses a yaw sensor that will turn the car via independend wheel braking to turn the car the direction the steering whell is pointed.

Example. you are going to fast into a left turn and you experience understeer (front wheels sliding and not turning). the DSC will use the back left brake to pull the car to the left.

Imagine if your car didn't have wheels that changed the direction they point. and you could only turn the car using the brakes on the car. that's what it does.

 

Excerpt from PistonHeads full article

Monday 31st July 2006
JCW MINI GP

The ultimate Mini adventure or just bling? Ian Kuah reports

"DSC is great on a dark, rainy night when you are tired and might so easily make a mistake on a slippery bend. But DSC is also intrusive to an experienced driver on the track as it cuts power and stops you throttle steering the car.
So, after a couple of frustrating laps where I found the nose of the GP running very wide under power on the two slowest bends, I switched DSC off and resorted to trail braking to rotate the tail on the way into corners and sometimes a slight lift-off to tighten the line even further prior to getting the power back on to pull the car through the bend. Then it was fun all the way, composed, capable and very adjustable."

I'm not the only one.

 

DSC is always off on the track unless it's raining. Yes that is cheating and i'm alright with that. I have spun in the rain (on track)with it on. it helps out a lot but you still can't defy the laws of physics.

On the road i leave DSC on 99% of the time. it's not my driving i'm worried about it's the other oblivious zombies on the road i'm worried about.

now that they let girls drive you have to be really careful out there.

of course that's a joke.

you've all the the SAV's/SUV's with a car full of kids and the driver texting all while driving in the left lane. I think both of those crimes should be punishable by fireing squad.

 

Yeah, but not with the ASC/DSC on.