Hi Gang,

OK, I know it is a dumb question, specially since my WP/B stripped MCS is currently in production. I ordered the DSC thinking (in my own head), that it is a system that applies different torque, and braking to each tire to create more stability and control under certain circumstances. So you can take turns faster, etc. OK, OK, I am not a car expert. This is what I assumed (I know all about *** U ming). From what I have read in the past month, it seems to me that is actually a system that takes away power from the engine when it thinks you are in trouble, kinda like a clutch that engages automatically when it senses certain situations, or like a driver instructor that takes over when you are trying something funny. I am sure I am over simplifying everything.

I guess what I would like to know is

1) Exactly what and how does it do it?
2) Is it really an advantage to have it on?
3) Any other toughts and opinions from drivers who actually have it and have experience with it. I don't want this to turn into a CVT vs DSC conversation. I already bought the thing.

Many thanks,
Nando

 

DSC (Dynamic Stability Control), is part of the ABS & ASC (Automatic Stability Control). ASC monitors longitudinal forces when the vehicle is traveling in a straight line, DSC monitors and regulates the lateral forces on the car.
DSC uses the ABS wheel speed sensors and additional systems to measure brake cylinder pressure to determine how the driver is braking, the steering wheel angle is also measured to detect the vehicles path, yaw to see how fast the vehicle is turning about it's axis and lateral acceleration.
DSC recognizes both the driver's intention and the actual vehicle motion to determine whether the vehicle is deviating to a critical extent from the route intended by the driver. It intervenes by varying the brake pressure at individual wheels and by manipulating the engine torque through the power-train controller.
The system counteracts unstable vehicle behavior that can be caused by accelerating, braking, cornering or sudden load changes. These reactions translate into Over-steer, where the rear of the car slides towards the outside, and Under-steer, where the front of the car pushes towards the outside. The DSC system is quicker and more precise than a driver's reaction.
Charles

 

Hi Charles,

Thank you very much for the explanation. I guess I had assumed somewhat correctly what DSC was/does. The part I don't understand then, is why the DSC is the with the "stumble" issue people have complained about. Where when making a left turn, across oncoming traffic, the car dangerously looses power as you are getting into the turn. Since the DSC senses speed, it should know that you are accelerating as you are making the turn. So why does the engine loose power?

Thanks again,
Nando

 

I wouldn't worry about the DSC problem with stumble. Recent upgrades in the software have made a HUGE improvement with how much DSC interferes with daily driving. Prior to software upgrade I would not have recommended it, now I would. With the date of your build you should have no issues whatsoever...:smile:

 

Also known as "artificial driving aid" or "the bonehead limiter" I shut it off right after ignition. I noticed Randy does the same when taking us out for "THE" test drive after pully installation

 

Basically, I'm trying to get some feedback from some MINI owners on their actual experiences with DSC.
In theory, it looks impressive.
In the real world, however, does it offer significant benefits that users have found useful / valuable /can't do without ?
Would you consider DSC worth the bucks ?

tnx
jk

 

DSC was part of the package the MCS I bought had. I would not have ordered it. I turn it off most of the time. Also after modding my MCS, during excited acceleration it turns off the 'fun party' all the time.

Why it is Good: For average driver I believe it is a good, it helps cull you back from the edge of disaster if you are pushing it. It is not a guarantee from being stupid.

Why it is Bad: Experienced drivers in adverse conditions, or racing conditions have a better perception of when and where they are pushing that edge, and end up fighting the DSC to make what they want to happen.

Why AWD is bad (off topic): If you get all 4 wheels spinning, you are in a much worse situation than just two wheels spinning.

To me it is a question of how comfortable and experienced you are driving in potentialy adverse conditions. Also upkeep of brakes and tires is a huge part of that. Snow tires/rims are the best investment in the snowy regions (not to mention they decrease the wear on your summer tires).

All these things come down to the basic laws of physics, your driving attention, up keep of the car, and patience to arrive at your destination in one piece. The last part is the most difficult, even though wherever you are going will most likely be there when you get there.

My .02

 

Hmmm, I got it, dear hubby thought it was a good idea. I turn it off, at least when ever I remember to. Haven't had the car through a rainy season yet tho, so maybe I'll feel different about it after that. No snow where I live.

Shelly

 

DSC (in a nutshell)
Good for-
Maintaining safety/traction through adverse weather conditions like light snow and moderate rain.
Most drivers that are doing a normal commute on urban or freeway roads
Anyone that is not driving very aggressively/fast.

Not good for-
Autocross racing, track and driver school events
Performance driving where you don't want DSC to kick in automatically to slow the car down.

It is an extra option and not standard. It is in the Sports package for the MCS.

If you know you are going to race then skip it. If you are an average driver or if there are more than one driver for the MINI and it is used basically for street use then DSC is good and does help.

I do autocross,light track and driving events as well as commute and I have DSC on almost all the time. Only at the track for each run I turn it off. I haven't had any problems with DSC. Works pretty well for me.

 

I keep DSC on most of the time, except for autocross and most spirited driving.

I did some experimenting with DSC at the Dragon and found that it rarely kicked in when I was driving well and within the sensible limits required on a public highway. It was beneficial when I would give too much throttle coming out of a turn with the inside wheel spinning, since it would very briefly cut power until traction was gained for smooth accelleration. Every time it came on, I could have done a better job planning and executing the turn and NOT had it come on. Also, I was able to run with and right behind some of the faster MINI's so I don't think it slowed me down much.

I think most spirited drivers simply feel that they would rather use "the force" instead of a computerized autopilot gizmo when it comes to performance driving. I know I sure do!

 

When I first got my MCS in June 04, I kept DSC on all the time. I had heard complaints about it from some folks but couldn't understand their gripes. Now, after a couple of hair-raising experience with power loss when I least needed it, I have started to turn mine off regularly for in-city driving.

The problem with using it in-city (and in the dry) is that it will sometimes cut power when I am trying to enter into traffic from a sidestreet or business driveway.

In these scenarios there is quite often a swale you have to cross to get to the main road. If you're trying to do this quickly (to enter the traffic flow) you're going to applying more power than for a usual take-off. The extra power combined with the jostleling caused by crossing the swale (and sometimes an acute steering angle) will sometimes induce minor wheelspin (very minor) which in itself would be harmless - except if this causes the DSC to cut power. You are now watching traffic bear down on you while your MINI sputters until it regains traction and restores power. Not much fun and possibly quite dangerous.

The fact that DCS even engages at such a low speed (0-10mph) is IMHO a fundamental programming error that at some point in time is going to get someone hurt.

All that being said I think its potentially a great safety feature for correcting driver errors at speed or in low-traction driving conditions (rain, snow etc).

If I push it too fast around a corner, or get into some other high-speed instability, I'm going to be real happy to have DSC. The problem with its current incarnation is its intrusive behavior at low speeds can quite possibly get you into trouble as well.

Probably didn't help you much did I? Well, you'll love the car - DSC or not...

-WebWerker

 

when i was buying my mini i asked my sales person what he thought, his response was this: " if i had a 16 year old daughter driving my car (sexist as this is ), i would have it, otherwise no". i chose not to order it as i was ordering options a la carte as it were. love the car and don't miss what i don't have. used the money for the hk sound system instead which, unless you are going to do something aftermarket, is worth every penny. often turn off the asc also. hope this helps. i guess i would go test drive a car with it and without it, see what you think.... the best driver's i know always turn it off

 

I skipped DSC on my '04 MCS. Expensive and intrusive are 2 words that come to mind when describing it. I think the DSC comcept looks great on paper but in the real world appears to be a finnicky option. Needs further refinement.

I live in Florida, so having DSC is of very little benefit. We don't have mountain ranges, snow, twisty mountain roads, etc. I decided to go just with the standard ASC+T all season traction control and I think it works great in our environment.

Now on the other hand, if you live in the snowbelt states and do lots of driving in mountain roads and/or very slippery roads, the DSC might be a wiser choice for you.

but if you live in the American South West, South, South East or Florida, skip it, you don't need it.

 

I opted not to get it...the only reason I might have is for the toggle. After having read many posts.....and since I do lots of "around-the-neighborhood" driving, I suspected it might interfere with my hasty exits from side streets and parking lots, cutting across traffic or otherwise. I'm certain now that it would have...DSC would have been switched off in my MINI. Even in the rain....I have no problems at all. I just drive sensibly................okay maybe I push it a bit. Geez, who wants to wreck their baby anyway!?!?!?!?!?!

If I had snow to contend with, or more challenging roads, yes, I would have it just for safety because that's where it would probably come into play most.

In a nutshell from my side.......don't need it.

 

I live in the Philadelphia area and thought DSC was advantageous in the snow last winter. It helps to keep you going straight when the surface is relatively flat. I turn it off for better traction when going up hills.

I have had one experience on a rain wet road that made it worth every penny. On a twisty road I skidded while going into a turn a bit too fast and found myself about to hit a tree......applied the brakes and the DSC directed me safely and miraculously back onto the road......a very narrow escape. I felt very fortunate that I had it engaged.

Now I have non run-flat tires with great traction and don't use it as often. I think the DSC can be an excellent safety device especially after you learn when you SHOULD use it and when you really don't need to. All you need to do is flick a switch......now you have it.......now you don't!

 

I usually keep it ON unless Im going to launch the car. With debris
like leaves and pebbles on the road while cornering fast, etc. it is
reassuring that DSC can help you (to a degree) to get your car going
the way you want it to.

If I was on controlled roadcourse, I would keep it turned OFF.

 

what you describe is not DSC working, it is the ASC+T working. DSC only works when the car is already moving and looses control. ASC+T works from stand-still and prevents the engine from producing too much torque for the available driving conditions (read: you are not smooth on the throttle and steering). The ASC+T portion is IMHO tuned too agressively. I believe I've read from the few people with v38 engine software that this behaviour has been drastically improved to prevent such a large drop in engine torque.

 

I have DSC and it has saved me two times now. The first time, there was construction on the road off of my street and the they had torn up the driveway just past the turn in, I did not see the gravel until I was halfway through the turn going at a good rate of speed. As soon as I hit it, I slid and DSC kicked in, saving me from the orange barrels.

The second time was a downhill turn going too fast and the rear end got loose. I attribute saving this one to my driving skills though

 

This is exactly why I got it. I'm not a great driver (competent and conscientious, but not great) and I figure at some point DSC could save me a lot more than the $500 it cost to add it to the car.

 

It saved me once coming around a wet leafe filled hairpin a little wide.

I agree that there are times shutting it off is a very good idea, but the comment that "experienced drivers" don't need it is hogwash, unless you are an F1 pilot.

It's when life throws you something unexpected it's nice to have some help. I tested it on some glare ice last year in a big parking lot, on and off. It's amazing how the car was held straight....and great sound effects with the brakes snapping on and off!

regards,
Red

 

The ASC+T is all that is needed. DSC is one more way to spend money for little in return. I have over 40,000 miles on the S and my wife and I love it. But even the ASC+T can be intrusive. If you are that worried use the $500 on track days/schools. You will get a lot more in the long run.


Motor on.

 

Ok well that makes sense but brings up the current quandry: If ASC is what is causing the dangerous low-speed power loss, the only way to disengage it (as far as I know) is to hit the DSC switch - thus turning off both systems (if I understand correctly). It seems like the proper configuration would be an option to turn off ASC and leave DSC turned on.

I hope that v38 will help. Of course with the long lead times for service at my local dealership I'll probably never see v38 on this car before I sell it. Until then I'll probably keep turning DSC/ASC off before taking off and try to remember to turn it back on at speed and for less demanding driving.

 

DSC works great. One time when exiting from a carwash onto a busy street and with my tires still wet and also the asphalt from all the other cars before me, I had the DSC system engage. You see I was getting impatient having to wait for traffic to pass by to merge. When I found an opportunity I jumped on the gas. I am sure my car would have done the Watusi if I didn’t have the DSC on.

I am also not sure how much it truly engages under normal driving. I do notice once in a while a strange feeling when doing sharp turns and hitting the gas hard, but other than that, nothing. I tried laying rubber with and without it and surprisingly found that it could be done even with the DSC on, although not as long as a strip as when it was off. Unless you are power shifting or some other crazy maneuver, I don’t think it comes on much.

 

Turned mine off all the time till I got Ian's auto-up/track DSC circuit. Now Ian's circuit turns it off automatically. Might be happier if I just had ASC, I don't know, but I'm not fond of the DSC/ASC combination.

 

I highly doubt that $500 of schooling/track time will really improve your driving skills that much to handle a panic situation. Remember, it's easy to learn what to do when you wanted to do it, but emergency manoeuvers aren't planned. You have to be good enough to instinctually handle around an obstacle. Probably a better solution is $500 DSC and another $500 track/schooling for when you want to push the limits.