R50/53 About Oil Change
#26
07-10-2004 | 01:21 PM
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 218
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caminifan,
You bring up a great point. Even though I call it an oil change, when I change oil I do much more. Even if I don't pick up a single tool beyond what I use to do the oil change itself, I visually inspect many things while I'm under the car. I check CV and rack & pinion boots, give all the wheels a shake and look around thoroughly. You never know what you might find falling off of the car. Over the years I have made numerous discoveries that allowed me to make small repairs before they turned into the need for BIG repairs.
Then once the car is back on the floor, I check all the fluid levels and check the color of the brake fluid. Regardless of brake fluid color I flush it once a year anyway.
I get a jug of Mobil One at Wal Mart for $17.98 and I buy factory filters for $6 each from Classic MINI 6 at a time. So by the time I get tax and such on, it costs right at $25 to change the oil and NOTHING to give the car a thorough inspection underneath.
There are obviously some folks here that consider this a waste of time and money. I have taken care of my cars in this manner for about 40 years. The most mileage I've ever gotten from any of my cars during this time has been 533,000 miles. I still have the car although it is not now in service. I typically only get about 300,000 miles out of my cars before something major pushes me toward making a change.
You can take proper care, or what some here apparantly consider wasting money and drive it for a long time, or you can do minimal maintenance and drive it many fewer miles. The choice of which is, of course, up to each individual.
Have a great day,
You bring up a great point. Even though I call it an oil change, when I change oil I do much more. Even if I don't pick up a single tool beyond what I use to do the oil change itself, I visually inspect many things while I'm under the car. I check CV and rack & pinion boots, give all the wheels a shake and look around thoroughly. You never know what you might find falling off of the car. Over the years I have made numerous discoveries that allowed me to make small repairs before they turned into the need for BIG repairs.
Then once the car is back on the floor, I check all the fluid levels and check the color of the brake fluid. Regardless of brake fluid color I flush it once a year anyway.
I get a jug of Mobil One at Wal Mart for $17.98 and I buy factory filters for $6 each from Classic MINI 6 at a time. So by the time I get tax and such on, it costs right at $25 to change the oil and NOTHING to give the car a thorough inspection underneath.
There are obviously some folks here that consider this a waste of time and money. I have taken care of my cars in this manner for about 40 years. The most mileage I've ever gotten from any of my cars during this time has been 533,000 miles. I still have the car although it is not now in service. I typically only get about 300,000 miles out of my cars before something major pushes me toward making a change.
You can take proper care, or what some here apparantly consider wasting money and drive it for a long time, or you can do minimal maintenance and drive it many fewer miles. The choice of which is, of course, up to each individual.
Have a great day,
#27
07-10-2004 | 01:44 PM
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
There is a good reason to change your oil at 1000 miles.
To get rid of the Castrol product that the factory use.
Despite it's labels, it is NOT a full synthetic oil, it's a synthetic blend.
Castrol got taken to court by Mobil for calling it synthetic, when in fact they had modified their original fully synthetic oil to use regular oil base products, in order to save money.
So if you want fully synthetic oil, you need to look elsewhere, like Mobil 1.
As for change intervals, I do a 5k change with Mobil 1, along with the filter of course. I do it myself, and the oil is cheap enough from WalMart or CostCo.
Now I know back in the UK Mobil 1 is really expensive, but even so it's probably the best of the sythetic oils, and worth the £££.
I see it a a good investment in preventative maintenance, and the car always runs smoother after an oil change.
Could be psychological of course, but then who cares as long as you feel better about your MINI
Doing you own oil change you'll need:
Oil drain pan - 5qt MIN capacity
36mm short socket for the oil filter can
13mm socket for the oil drain plug
Gloves to prevent burns from the exhaust heat shield!
Optional - Ramps - make under car access easier
Buy the 5w30 Synthetic of your choice (5 Qts) and a BMW filter with O-ring
Every 3-4 changes, also renew the drain plug with it's built in crush washer.
You can buy all of the above for less than one dealer oil change, and be able to service your car when ever you like in the future.
Chris.
To get rid of the Castrol product that the factory use.
Despite it's labels, it is NOT a full synthetic oil, it's a synthetic blend.
Castrol got taken to court by Mobil for calling it synthetic, when in fact they had modified their original fully synthetic oil to use regular oil base products, in order to save money.
So if you want fully synthetic oil, you need to look elsewhere, like Mobil 1.
As for change intervals, I do a 5k change with Mobil 1, along with the filter of course. I do it myself, and the oil is cheap enough from WalMart or CostCo.
Now I know back in the UK Mobil 1 is really expensive, but even so it's probably the best of the sythetic oils, and worth the £££.
I see it a a good investment in preventative maintenance, and the car always runs smoother after an oil change.
Could be psychological of course, but then who cares as long as you feel better about your MINI
Doing you own oil change you'll need:
Oil drain pan - 5qt MIN capacity
36mm short socket for the oil filter can
13mm socket for the oil drain plug
Gloves to prevent burns from the exhaust heat shield!
Optional - Ramps - make under car access easier
Buy the 5w30 Synthetic of your choice (5 Qts) and a BMW filter with O-ring
Every 3-4 changes, also renew the drain plug with it's built in crush washer.
You can buy all of the above for less than one dealer oil change, and be able to service your car when ever you like in the future.
Chris.
#28
07-10-2004 | 03:09 PM
Banned
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,756
Likes: 0
From MINI2.com:
"All MINIs leave the factory with 100% synthetic 5W-30 motor oil, and this oil is recommended by MINI both for topping off and for all oil changes. 5W-30 is an excellent "all-climate" oil. Other weights should be used only upon specific manufacturer recommendation, and then only in extreme conditions, such as when racing in Death Valley.
MINI specifically recommends Castrol 100% synthetic 5W-30 motor oil. Castrol produces the engine oil used by the factory and all BMW branded oil. In North America, this oil is known by the trade name Syntec. Do not buy Syntec Blend, since it is not the same.
MINI also recommends Mobil 1 synthetic 5W-30 motor oil. In some countries Mobil 1 may be available in a synthetic blend version and, again, the blend is not the same.
BMW recommends Valvoline SynPower Full Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-30 for most of its vehicles.
Other brands of 100% synthetic 5W-30 are perfectly acceptable so long as they meet or exceed the engine oil specifications that the Castrol, Mobil 1, and Valvoline oils meet. Examples include:
Synthetic oils are not derived from natural petroleum stock, so they can be more readily engineered with a wider variety of helpful physical properties. They are also more expensive, often at least double the price of their petroleum counterparts.
Opinions vary on how much better synthetics perform. While you certainly won't destroy your MINI's engine with a conventional petroleum motor oil, you might have more engine wear, particularly under extreme driving conditions or with long intervals between oil changes. Also, your MINI's onboard service interval computer assumes use of the recommended synthetic motor oil. But if you cannot find 100% synthetic away from home, and your engine oil level is too low, certainly it is far better in a pinch to add regular oil (or a synthetic blend) than to run with too little oil.
Use of a synthetic oil does not forever preclude use of a petroleum product, and vice versa. Oils can be mixed, with the resulting performance roughly proportional to their percentages.
In most cases prolonged idling is not recommended to "warm the oil," although moderate speeds and gentle acceleration can help your engine after starting up in cold weather. Consult your owner's manual for guidance.
Many owners report higher oil consumption during the initial running in period. This consumption is normal, within reason. Check all fluid levels, especially engine oil, even more frequently than usual during this running in period after you receive your new MINI.
MINI does not list an initial low mileage oil change. Some owners believe that an initial oil change at 1000 miles or so is a wise precaution, as is the practice with piston aircraft engines, on the theory that new engines go through a period of initial high wear, and it is important to get rid of metal and other oil contaminants at an early interval. Others consider this practice a waste of money.
Similarly, MINI's service interval computer recommends relatively "long" intervals between oil changes of approximately 10,000 to 12,000 miles (or 2 years), whichever comes first. The exact mileage interval will vary depending on driving habits. Oil change shops typically recommend a 3,000 mile interval. Most owners agree that a 3,000 mile interval is excessive and a waste of money for modern automobiles, but opinions differ on the value of oil changes more frequent than manufacturer recommendations. Many owners opt for one additional oil change halfway between each change specified by the onboard service computer. In any event, "extra" oil changes will not be covered under the MINI initial maintenance plan, such as the TLC programme. Regardless of the oil change interval you choose, be sure to check the oil level regularly and top off if necessary. Excessive oil consumption should be brought to your service technician's attention.
MINI does not recommend any special oil additives beyond those already present in the recommended motor oils. Most owners consider such additives a waste of money.
Always change the oil filter when changing the oil. "
"All MINIs leave the factory with 100% synthetic 5W-30 motor oil, and this oil is recommended by MINI both for topping off and for all oil changes. 5W-30 is an excellent "all-climate" oil. Other weights should be used only upon specific manufacturer recommendation, and then only in extreme conditions, such as when racing in Death Valley.
MINI specifically recommends Castrol 100% synthetic 5W-30 motor oil. Castrol produces the engine oil used by the factory and all BMW branded oil. In North America, this oil is known by the trade name Syntec. Do not buy Syntec Blend, since it is not the same.
MINI also recommends Mobil 1 synthetic 5W-30 motor oil. In some countries Mobil 1 may be available in a synthetic blend version and, again, the blend is not the same.
BMW recommends Valvoline SynPower Full Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-30 for most of its vehicles.
Other brands of 100% synthetic 5W-30 are perfectly acceptable so long as they meet or exceed the engine oil specifications that the Castrol, Mobil 1, and Valvoline oils meet. Examples include:
- Motorcraft (Ford) Full Synthetic 5W-30
- Havoline Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-30
- Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-30
- Chevron Supreme 100% Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil
- Kendall SHP Synthetic Motor Oil
- Pennzoil Performax 100 Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-30
- Exxon Superflo Synthetic 5W-30
- Phillips 66 TropArtic 100% Synthetic 5W-30
- Quaker State Ultra Premium Full Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-30
Synthetic oils are not derived from natural petroleum stock, so they can be more readily engineered with a wider variety of helpful physical properties. They are also more expensive, often at least double the price of their petroleum counterparts.
Opinions vary on how much better synthetics perform. While you certainly won't destroy your MINI's engine with a conventional petroleum motor oil, you might have more engine wear, particularly under extreme driving conditions or with long intervals between oil changes. Also, your MINI's onboard service interval computer assumes use of the recommended synthetic motor oil. But if you cannot find 100% synthetic away from home, and your engine oil level is too low, certainly it is far better in a pinch to add regular oil (or a synthetic blend) than to run with too little oil.
Use of a synthetic oil does not forever preclude use of a petroleum product, and vice versa. Oils can be mixed, with the resulting performance roughly proportional to their percentages.
In most cases prolonged idling is not recommended to "warm the oil," although moderate speeds and gentle acceleration can help your engine after starting up in cold weather. Consult your owner's manual for guidance.
Many owners report higher oil consumption during the initial running in period. This consumption is normal, within reason. Check all fluid levels, especially engine oil, even more frequently than usual during this running in period after you receive your new MINI.
MINI does not list an initial low mileage oil change. Some owners believe that an initial oil change at 1000 miles or so is a wise precaution, as is the practice with piston aircraft engines, on the theory that new engines go through a period of initial high wear, and it is important to get rid of metal and other oil contaminants at an early interval. Others consider this practice a waste of money.
Similarly, MINI's service interval computer recommends relatively "long" intervals between oil changes of approximately 10,000 to 12,000 miles (or 2 years), whichever comes first. The exact mileage interval will vary depending on driving habits. Oil change shops typically recommend a 3,000 mile interval. Most owners agree that a 3,000 mile interval is excessive and a waste of money for modern automobiles, but opinions differ on the value of oil changes more frequent than manufacturer recommendations. Many owners opt for one additional oil change halfway between each change specified by the onboard service computer. In any event, "extra" oil changes will not be covered under the MINI initial maintenance plan, such as the TLC programme. Regardless of the oil change interval you choose, be sure to check the oil level regularly and top off if necessary. Excessive oil consumption should be brought to your service technician's attention.
MINI does not recommend any special oil additives beyond those already present in the recommended motor oils. Most owners consider such additives a waste of money.
Always change the oil filter when changing the oil. "
#29
07-10-2004 | 03:19 PM
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 204
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But the problem here is that the Castrol 'synthetic' is in fact not 100% synthetic.
to quote...
Mobil contended that Castrol misleads consumers that Syntec is a fully synthetic motor oil despite the fact that Syntec is no longer synthetic. The challenger alleged that after years of manufacturing Syntec with PAO, Castrol replaced the PAO, which had constituted nearly 70% of the volume of the product, with hydroprocessed mineral oil in approximately December 1997.
As a result of an independent laboratory test conducted by Savant Inc., Mobil maintained that samples of Syntec purchased in June and December 1997 contained 93% and 80% PAO. Other samples of Syntec, one purchased in December 1997 and four purchased in 1998, contained no PAO, and instead contained 100% mineral oil.
Furthermore, Mobil alleged that Castrol degraded Syntec by substituting hydroprocessed mineral oil for PAO to the detriment of the consumer.
So the factory fill is absolutely NOT a fully synthetic oil
Mobil 1, and others, are still 100% synthetic oils, Castrol Syntec however, is a blended synthetic with mineral oil.
Chris.
to quote...
Mobil contended that Castrol misleads consumers that Syntec is a fully synthetic motor oil despite the fact that Syntec is no longer synthetic. The challenger alleged that after years of manufacturing Syntec with PAO, Castrol replaced the PAO, which had constituted nearly 70% of the volume of the product, with hydroprocessed mineral oil in approximately December 1997.
As a result of an independent laboratory test conducted by Savant Inc., Mobil maintained that samples of Syntec purchased in June and December 1997 contained 93% and 80% PAO. Other samples of Syntec, one purchased in December 1997 and four purchased in 1998, contained no PAO, and instead contained 100% mineral oil.
Furthermore, Mobil alleged that Castrol degraded Syntec by substituting hydroprocessed mineral oil for PAO to the detriment of the consumer.
So the factory fill is absolutely NOT a fully synthetic oil
Mobil 1, and others, are still 100% synthetic oils, Castrol Syntec however, is a blended synthetic with mineral oil.
Chris.
#30
07-10-2004 | 03:19 PM
Banned
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,756
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Originally Posted by Cooperb!
There is a good reason to change your oil at 1000 miles.
To get rid of the Castrol product that the factory use.
Despite it's labels, it is NOT a full synthetic oil, it's a synthetic blend.
Castrol got taken to court by Mobil for calling it synthetic, when in fact they had modified their original fully synthetic oil to use regular oil base products, in order to save money.
So if you want fully synthetic oil, you need to look elsewhere, like Mobil 1.
Chris.
To get rid of the Castrol product that the factory use.
Despite it's labels, it is NOT a full synthetic oil, it's a synthetic blend.
Castrol got taken to court by Mobil for calling it synthetic, when in fact they had modified their original fully synthetic oil to use regular oil base products, in order to save money.
So if you want fully synthetic oil, you need to look elsewhere, like Mobil 1.
Chris.
I have not been able to find such information anywhere.
#31
07-10-2004 | 03:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,756
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Originally Posted by Cooperb!
But the problem here is that the Castrol 'synthetic' is in fact not 100% synthetic.
to quote...
Mobil contended that Castrol misleads consumers that Syntec is a fully synthetic motor oil despite the fact that Syntec is no longer synthetic. The challenger alleged that after years of manufacturing Syntec with PAO, Castrol replaced the PAO, which had constituted nearly 70% of the volume of the product, with hydroprocessed mineral oil in approximately December 1997.
As a result of an independent laboratory test conducted by Savant Inc., Mobil maintained that samples of Syntec purchased in June and December 1997 contained 93% and 80% PAO. Other samples of Syntec, one purchased in December 1997 and four purchased in 1998, contained no PAO, and instead contained 100% mineral oil.
Furthermore, Mobil alleged that Castrol degraded Syntec by substituting hydroprocessed mineral oil for PAO to the detriment of the consumer.
So the factory fill is absolutely NOT a fully synthetic oil
Mobil 1, and others, are still 100% synthetic oils, Castrol Syntec however, is a blended synthetic with mineral oil.
Chris.
to quote...
Mobil contended that Castrol misleads consumers that Syntec is a fully synthetic motor oil despite the fact that Syntec is no longer synthetic. The challenger alleged that after years of manufacturing Syntec with PAO, Castrol replaced the PAO, which had constituted nearly 70% of the volume of the product, with hydroprocessed mineral oil in approximately December 1997.
As a result of an independent laboratory test conducted by Savant Inc., Mobil maintained that samples of Syntec purchased in June and December 1997 contained 93% and 80% PAO. Other samples of Syntec, one purchased in December 1997 and four purchased in 1998, contained no PAO, and instead contained 100% mineral oil.
Furthermore, Mobil alleged that Castrol degraded Syntec by substituting hydroprocessed mineral oil for PAO to the detriment of the consumer.
So the factory fill is absolutely NOT a fully synthetic oil
Mobil 1, and others, are still 100% synthetic oils, Castrol Syntec however, is a blended synthetic with mineral oil.
Chris.
Please show me a link or document that clearly states that the current Castrol 5W-30 used by MINI and BMW is not 100% synthetic oil.
#32
07-10-2004 | 03:33 PM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,756
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According to the info below, Mobil 1 is not 100% synthetic either...go figure!
The case of the "carrier oil".[font=Arial][size=2]
Example:
Back labels of Mobil 1 products for many years had following:
" [/size][/font][font=Arial][size=1]* exclusive of carrier oil[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]" statement in substantially smaller print.
While at the same time the front label declared the Mobil 1 as:
"[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=4]100% Synthetic *[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2] ". in really large print.
If you are a good detective you’ll notice that the statement on the Front label ends with an asterisk (*) and the statement on the Back label starts with an asterisk (*).
If you are really good, you’ll figure out that the asterisks are the magical "glue" that connects the two together and that what should be understood is:
So if you are totally confused at this point, do not despair, soon you shall be enlightened with a wisdom worthy of CLS (Certified Lubrication Specialist).
First, however, you have to either consult you dictionary (a technical one with specialties in oil industry well defined), or just have to take our word for it.
The usual suspects are: Additive, Base Oil, Base Stock, Carrier Oil, "exclusive of", Petroleum, Process Oil and Synthetic.
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3] [/size]
Additive[/font][size=2]
An agent used for imparting new, or for improving existing characteristics of lubricating oils or greases.[/size][font=Arial]
Base Oil[/font][size=2]
A base oil is a base stock or blend of base stocks used in engine oil, gear oil or ATF.[/size][font=Arial]
Base Stock[/font][size=2]
A base stock is a mineral hydrocarbon or synthetic lubricant component that is produced by a single manufacturer (independent of crude source or manufacturing location), that meets the same manufacturer’s specification, and that is identified by a unique formula, product identification number, or both.
[/size][font=Arial][size=4]Carrier Oil[/size][/font]
[size=2]Oil (Petroleum), usually solvent neutral or process oil, used to "carry" or dissolve and/or disperse additives, which would otherwise be too viscous or even solid, and therefore not easily mixed with the Base Stock Oil.[/size][font=Arial]
"exclusive of"[/font][font=Arial][size=1]
preposition[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2] [/size][/font][size=2]
Not containing, devoid off, except for[/size][size=1]
Not including or considering[/size][font=Arial]
Petroleum[/font][size=2]
Petroleum = From Latin Petra (Rock) and Oleum (Oil) therefore meaning "Rock Oil" the term is commonly used to describe products made from "Crude Oil". [/size][font=Arial]
Conventional motor oil[/font][font=Arial][size=2]
[/size][/font][font=Times New Roman][size=2]Oil that is refined from crude oil that has been pumped from the ground and which contains naturally occurring components such as:
sulfur and sulfur compounds, reactive hydrocarbons and other "contaminants" that can not be completely and economically removed from petroleum, and thus end up in conventional motor oil Basestock.[/size][/font]
[font=Arial]Process oil[/font][size=2]
Oil not used for lubrication, but as a component of another materiel, or as a carrier of other products, such as additives.[/size][font=Arial]
Synthetic[/font][size=2]
Of, involving, or using synthesis
Produced by synthesis; specially: produced by chemical synthesis, rather than of natural origin
Not real or genuine; artificial [synthetic lubricant]
Something synthetic; specially, a substance produced by chemical synthesis
Man-made, not occurring in nature
[French synthétique < Greek synthetikos][/size][font=Arial]
Synthetic oils[/font][size=2]
Oils produced by "synthesis" (chemical reaction) rather than by extraction or conventional refinement.
Oils that previously were NOT considered as "synthetic" such as those that are produced by "severe refining", "hydrogenation" or other complex chemical processes that yield a more stable molecular uniformity and higher degree of purity that is not achevable through normal "conventional" refining process are NOW also labeled as "synthetic" by their respective producres (SHELL, ExxonMobil, BP, SUNOCO) - they however still are made from Petroleum Crude.
These "quasi-synthetics" are almost as good as PAO but much cheaper.
[/size][font=Arial][size=3]
Read the definitions several times and try to understand![/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]
OK here is the reasoning for:
The "exclusive of carrier oil" means in English that the Carrier or the Process Oil that is used to "carry" the additives is not synthetic oil and therefore, the final product (Motor Oil)
is NOT 100% Synthetic, even though the Base Oil is 100% Synthetic.
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=4]GOT THAT ?
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3]
Well then, what does Mobil (now ExxonMobil) have to say about that ?[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]
Q: Is Mobil 1 a fully synthetic oil?[/size][/font][size=2]
Yes, it’s 100% synthetic. The base stocks used in blending Mobil 1 are all "chemically constructed" instead of being simply segregated out of crude oil like conventional mineral oils.[/size][font=Arial][size=2]
Q: Then why does it say it contains a petroleum carrier for additives?[/size][/font][size=2]
All motor oils contain additives that provide extra protection against wear, corrosion and engine deposits. These additives are usually high molecular weight materials – sometimes even solids. Conventional carrier oil is used to make these additives soluble. All motor oils will contain some of this carrier oil, usually only amounting to a small percentage of the finished product.
Source of above Questions and Answers is www.mobil,com and Mobil 1 promotional literature from 1999.
[/size][font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]Q: How a Fully Synthetic oil differs from Conventional Oil ?[/size][/font][size=2]
[/size][size=4][/size][size=2]Conventional motor oils are refined from crude oil that has been pumped from the ground. While petroleum refining is an advanced science, naturally occurring components, such as sulfur, reactive hydrocarbons and other materials, can never be completely removed from petroleum, and thus may end up in conventional motor oil base stocks.
At the opposite end of the spectrum, providing the highest performance and protection level, are fully synthetic motor oils like Mobil 1 with SuperSyn family of lubricants, the leading synthetic motor oil and the "official Motor Oil of NASCAR".
Fully synthetic lubricants are formulated in several ways, using high-performance synthetic base oils. These products are produced either through a chemical reaction called "synthesis", severe refining or other complex chemical processes that yield a molecular uniformity and degree of purity that is impossible to achieve through normal refining process.[/size][font=Arial][size=2]
[/size][/font][size=2][font=Times New Roman]Source of above Question and Answer is NASCAR PERFORMANCE - Summer 2003 from article originated by ExxonMobil and titled "Getting up to Speed about SYNTHETIC LUBRICANTS".[/font]
[/size][font=Arial][size=2]
[size=4]AHA !!![/size]
Are you clear on the subject NOW?
Perhaps a small question still lurks on your mind, how small a "small percentage" is?
Well, for that we have to go to a company like Infineum that produces the additive packages such a PARANOX 5043 and PARANOX 5510 for synthetic lubricants.
The active ingredients are 1.94% to 4.07% by Mass (weight) the balance is Petroleum Oil.
That is about 98% or 96% of the "Additive Package" in ready to blend form is Petroleum Oil.
They (Infineum) recommend treat rate for FULLY FORMULATED lubricant (Motor Oil) of 10 to 20% of the finished product.
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]NOW for you MATH WIZARDS:[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]
If 100% of the Base Oil is 100% Synthetic;
If 98% to 96% of the "Additive Package is Petroleum";
If 10 to 20% of the finished product is the Additive Package;
Then, how many % of Petroleum and how many % of Synthetic are in the finished Motor Oil?
SOLUTION:
When the treat rate is 10% and the Additive Package contains 2% of active ingredients,
then the finished product will be 90% Synthetic with 9.8% Petroleum and 0.2% of additives.
When the treat rate is 20% and the Additive Package contains 4% of the active ingredients,
then the finished product will be 80% Synthetic with 19.2% Petroleum and 0.8% of additives.
The "small percentage" (according to Mobil) actually is 9.8% to 19.2%.
Many investors would be thrilled to get such a "small percentage" return on their money !!
(Just for the record, the average dividends for Mobil and Exxon over last 20 years have been in 2% to 4% range, and they jointly term this as "significant" return on Shareholders’ Equity in their Annual Reports).
OK then "100% Synthetic Motor Oil" is not really "100% Synthetic Motor Oil", but it is perfectly OK to say that it is 100% Synthetic Motor Oil, because the Base Stock is 100% Synthetic and that is what you really mean when the Motor Oil contains as much as 20% of Petroleum, because the Petroleum is not the Base Oil but the Carrier Oil for the Additives !!!
Now if YOU do not understand that, as most people do not, well that is just way too bad.
After all you just might not be willing to pay so much more for Synthetic Motor Oil if you knew it was not "100% Synthetic", or would you ?
Well, you probably are (paying too much)!
[/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=4][/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3]Almost Synthetic is Synthetic even when it is Petroleum.[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]
Well, if you think that Mobil or (ExxonMobil now) is less than honest, or even down right deceptive, that is not the worst of it.
Many other brands of Synthetics (Shell, Castrol, Amsoil, etc.) are NOT fully "synthetic" at all, at least by the definition used for years by chemists in all chemical companies around the World.
Some years ago SHELL in Europe and specifically in then West Germany introduced Motor Oils that were manufactured from UHVI Petroleum Base stock that although made from conventional crude oil, was subjected to additional processing not common on "normal" or "typical" Base Oil production. These (UHVI = Ultra High Viscosity Index) Base Stock containing Motor Oils were labeled by SHELL as "Synthetic".
Companies like MOTUL, MOBIL, AGIP in their respective markets did not like that labeling one bit, because the SHELL "synthetic" products were sold for substantially less then their own Brands of "Synthetic" Labeled products.
So years of lawsuits court orders, appeals, contra-suits clogged the courts of several European countries. At different times and in different countries contrary decisions or judgements were made. What was "synthetic" in one country on one day was "not synthetic" in another country at the same time. A real confusion for a region of globe that aimed to "unify" in the near future and become one great continent of "EURO".
What finally evolved from all this confusion was that the label term "Synthetic" is a marketing term, and therefore it is up to the "marketer" of the oil, to define what "synthetic" is.[/size][/font][size=4]
AHA !!![/size][font=Arial][size=2]
So now anytime you subject conventional petroleum oil to any unconventional process or reaction, irrespective of if it works (improves) or not the Base Oil, you can for all practical purposes call it "synthetic" i.e., Man-made.
SAE which had in its lubricant specifications not only definitions of what constitutes a "synthetic" but also a list of specific chemicals used as lubricants that were considered "synthetic".
Although SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) is US based organization, it aims at Global reach, and having one standard in the USA and yet another in most of Europe was deemed as bad as having English and Metric standards of measurements (at the same time).
The decision was made to go along with Europe (after all Metric is better), and as a result all reference to "synthetic" in respect to lubricants was deleted from ALL future SAE publications of SAE Standards relating to Lubricants.
Since SAE is a non-profit organization of Engineers, it had no desire nor financial might to involve itself in never ending lawsuits with mighty oil and chemical companies, so the simple "deletion" of all references to "synthetic" was perhaps the best and easiest decision.
When opportunity is there, it is only natural that some one will seize it.
It was CASTROL with their Syntec® Synthetic Motor Oil, which when first introduced up until December 1997 it was formulated with PAO sourced from Mobil.
In January 1998 CASTROL started to use much cheaper hydroprocessed petroleum base oils from SHELL. Mobil lost the opportunity to sell PAO to CASTROL.
Mobil Oil complained to National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus, which in April 1999 finally ruled in CASTROL favor, specifically allowing Syntec® Motor Oil made from SHELL XHVI slack wax stream to be sold and promoted as "synthetic".
To celebrate the victory, CASTROL Company spokesperson said:
"CASTROL is proud to be a major worldwide provider of synthetic formulated lubricants, and looks forward to continued participation in this exciting market. CASTROL is committed to upgrading its products and producing the highest quality synthetic engine oils. We will continue to explore ways to ensure that Syntec® remains a leading performer in the synthetic category"
WOW, someone missed their calling to be a Politician !!!
So now "synthetic" can be marketed as "synthetic" even if it is not a "synthetic"!
A slight clue that as good as "synthetic" is really not all that good, can be found on [/size][/font][font=Times New Roman][size=2]www.castrol.com[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2] , when the recommended oil change interval for CASTROL Syntec® Fully Synthetic Motor Oil is: 3,000 miles or 3 months – just the same as for ordinary conventional Petroleum Motor Oil.
A PENNZOIL with PENNZANE® is not any better and PENNZOIL claims are downright deceptive. The PENNZANE® which is touted as "developed for and used by NASA" has bee actually developed for used in vacuum pumps, and computer drives. It was never intended for or ever used in any engine! PENNZANE® in its pure form costs about $400.00 per US quarts.
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that in the Consumer version of the "synthetic" motor oil that sells for under $4.00 there is about a drop of PENNZANE® in 5 Gallons !
The Back Label of PENNZOIL "Synthetic" with PENNZANE® also instructs the user to: "change motor oil EVERY 3,000 miles for best performance" !
Why then it costs four times as much conventional Petroleum Motor Oil if it is not all that much better, and definitely does not last in service any longer?
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3]Someone has to PAY extra premium for the "synthetic" on the label, even if the content is not "synthetic".
[/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=4][/size][/font][font=Arial][size=4]The SynLube™ Difference[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]
So now that you know the thick and thin of "synthetic", perhaps you finally could and would appreciate the 100% Synthetic Colloidal Super Lubricants from SynLube, Inc.[/size][/font][size=2]
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]Perhaps todaybeing honest and truthful is an old-fashioned and obsolete business ethic, but that’s how we at SynLube, Inc. have been doing business ever since 1969.
No we are not the "First" and we are not the "Biggest" when it comes to lubricants, but being what we are, when it comes to lubrication, we are and can afford to be the "Best in the Solar System, not just the Earth".
And NOW - it is up to YOU the consumer and the vehicle owner or operator.
With every penny that you spend you vote for the product that you ultimately buy and use.
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3]YOU have the final choice!
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]Will you choose to support products that are NOT what they say or claim ? Will you choose products that promote false advertising ?
Or will you choose the very best product, that in the long run cost much less to use, than the mediocre ?
When it comes to lubricants for your vehicle(s) the choice is simple:
There is:[/size][/font][font=Times New Roman][size=2] [/size][/font]<B>[font=Arial][size=3]SynLube™ Lube-4-Life[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2] ®[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3] – [/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3]the very best…..[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]
[/size]So now that YOU know "all about synthetic motor oil", which oil would you really rather have in YOUR vehicle?
[size=2]
[/size][font=Arial][size=5]
[font=Century Schoolbook, Times New Roman, Times]
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Copyright © 1996-2003 SynLube, Inc.
Last modified: December 16, 2003
[font=Arial][size=1]
The case of the "carrier oil".[font=Arial][size=2]
Example:
Back labels of Mobil 1 products for many years had following:
" [/size][/font][font=Arial][size=1]* exclusive of carrier oil[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]" statement in substantially smaller print.
While at the same time the front label declared the Mobil 1 as:
"[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=4]100% Synthetic *[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2] ". in really large print.
If you are a good detective you’ll notice that the statement on the Front label ends with an asterisk (*) and the statement on the Back label starts with an asterisk (*).
If you are really good, you’ll figure out that the asterisks are the magical "glue" that connects the two together and that what should be understood is:
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=4]" 100 % Synthetic, exclusive of carrier oil ".
[/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=2]
Well, that is only the beginning of our decoding mission. When asked, majority of consumers has absolutely no idea what "carrier oil" is, or what the meaning of "exclusive of" really is.So if you are totally confused at this point, do not despair, soon you shall be enlightened with a wisdom worthy of CLS (Certified Lubrication Specialist).
First, however, you have to either consult you dictionary (a technical one with specialties in oil industry well defined), or just have to take our word for it.
The usual suspects are: Additive, Base Oil, Base Stock, Carrier Oil, "exclusive of", Petroleum, Process Oil and Synthetic.
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3] [/size]
Additive[/font][size=2]
An agent used for imparting new, or for improving existing characteristics of lubricating oils or greases.[/size][font=Arial]
Base Oil[/font][size=2]
A base oil is a base stock or blend of base stocks used in engine oil, gear oil or ATF.[/size][font=Arial]
Base Stock[/font][size=2]
A base stock is a mineral hydrocarbon or synthetic lubricant component that is produced by a single manufacturer (independent of crude source or manufacturing location), that meets the same manufacturer’s specification, and that is identified by a unique formula, product identification number, or both.
[/size][font=Arial][size=4]Carrier Oil[/size][/font]
[size=2]Oil (Petroleum), usually solvent neutral or process oil, used to "carry" or dissolve and/or disperse additives, which would otherwise be too viscous or even solid, and therefore not easily mixed with the Base Stock Oil.[/size][font=Arial]
"exclusive of"[/font][font=Arial][size=1]
preposition[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2] [/size][/font][size=2]
Not containing, devoid off, except for[/size][size=1]
Not including or considering[/size][font=Arial]
Petroleum[/font][size=2]
Petroleum = From Latin Petra (Rock) and Oleum (Oil) therefore meaning "Rock Oil" the term is commonly used to describe products made from "Crude Oil". [/size][font=Arial]
Conventional motor oil[/font][font=Arial][size=2]
[/size][/font][font=Times New Roman][size=2]Oil that is refined from crude oil that has been pumped from the ground and which contains naturally occurring components such as:
sulfur and sulfur compounds, reactive hydrocarbons and other "contaminants" that can not be completely and economically removed from petroleum, and thus end up in conventional motor oil Basestock.[/size][/font]
[font=Arial]Process oil[/font][size=2]
Oil not used for lubrication, but as a component of another materiel, or as a carrier of other products, such as additives.[/size][font=Arial]
Synthetic[/font][size=2]
Of, involving, or using synthesis
Produced by synthesis; specially: produced by chemical synthesis, rather than of natural origin
Not real or genuine; artificial [synthetic lubricant]
Something synthetic; specially, a substance produced by chemical synthesis
Man-made, not occurring in nature
[French synthétique < Greek synthetikos][/size][font=Arial]
Synthetic oils[/font][size=2]
Oils produced by "synthesis" (chemical reaction) rather than by extraction or conventional refinement.
Oils that previously were NOT considered as "synthetic" such as those that are produced by "severe refining", "hydrogenation" or other complex chemical processes that yield a more stable molecular uniformity and higher degree of purity that is not achevable through normal "conventional" refining process are NOW also labeled as "synthetic" by their respective producres (SHELL, ExxonMobil, BP, SUNOCO) - they however still are made from Petroleum Crude.
These "quasi-synthetics" are almost as good as PAO but much cheaper.
[/size][font=Arial][size=3]
Patience, please, the ultimate truth will be revealed soon!
OK here is the reasoning for:
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=4]" 100 % Synthetic, exclusive of carrier oil ".
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]
The "100% Synthetic" relates to the Base Oil or Base Stock, it and only it (the Base Stock) is synthetically made. In case of Mobil 1, it was originally PAO (Poly-alpha-olefin).The "exclusive of carrier oil" means in English that the Carrier or the Process Oil that is used to "carry" the additives is not synthetic oil and therefore, the final product (Motor Oil)
is NOT 100% Synthetic, even though the Base Oil is 100% Synthetic.
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=4]GOT THAT ?
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3]
Well then, what does Mobil (now ExxonMobil) have to say about that ?[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]
Q: Is Mobil 1 a fully synthetic oil?[/size][/font][size=2]
Yes, it’s 100% synthetic. The base stocks used in blending Mobil 1 are all "chemically constructed" instead of being simply segregated out of crude oil like conventional mineral oils.[/size][font=Arial][size=2]
Q: Then why does it say it contains a petroleum carrier for additives?[/size][/font][size=2]
All motor oils contain additives that provide extra protection against wear, corrosion and engine deposits. These additives are usually high molecular weight materials – sometimes even solids. Conventional carrier oil is used to make these additives soluble. All motor oils will contain some of this carrier oil, usually only amounting to a small percentage of the finished product.
Source of above Questions and Answers is www.mobil,com and Mobil 1 promotional literature from 1999.
[/size][font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]Q: How a Fully Synthetic oil differs from Conventional Oil ?[/size][/font][size=2]
[/size][size=4][/size][size=2]Conventional motor oils are refined from crude oil that has been pumped from the ground. While petroleum refining is an advanced science, naturally occurring components, such as sulfur, reactive hydrocarbons and other materials, can never be completely removed from petroleum, and thus may end up in conventional motor oil base stocks.
At the opposite end of the spectrum, providing the highest performance and protection level, are fully synthetic motor oils like Mobil 1 with SuperSyn family of lubricants, the leading synthetic motor oil and the "official Motor Oil of NASCAR".
Fully synthetic lubricants are formulated in several ways, using high-performance synthetic base oils. These products are produced either through a chemical reaction called "synthesis", severe refining or other complex chemical processes that yield a molecular uniformity and degree of purity that is impossible to achieve through normal refining process.[/size][font=Arial][size=2]
[/size][/font][size=2][font=Times New Roman]Source of above Question and Answer is NASCAR PERFORMANCE - Summer 2003 from article originated by ExxonMobil and titled "Getting up to Speed about SYNTHETIC LUBRICANTS".[/font]
[/size][font=Arial][size=2]
[size=4]AHA !!![/size]
Are you clear on the subject NOW?
Perhaps a small question still lurks on your mind, how small a "small percentage" is?
Well, for that we have to go to a company like Infineum that produces the additive packages such a PARANOX 5043 and PARANOX 5510 for synthetic lubricants.
The active ingredients are 1.94% to 4.07% by Mass (weight) the balance is Petroleum Oil.
That is about 98% or 96% of the "Additive Package" in ready to blend form is Petroleum Oil.
They (Infineum) recommend treat rate for FULLY FORMULATED lubricant (Motor Oil) of 10 to 20% of the finished product.
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]NOW for you MATH WIZARDS:[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]
If 100% of the Base Oil is 100% Synthetic;
If 98% to 96% of the "Additive Package is Petroleum";
If 10 to 20% of the finished product is the Additive Package;
Then, how many % of Petroleum and how many % of Synthetic are in the finished Motor Oil?
SOLUTION:
When the treat rate is 10% and the Additive Package contains 2% of active ingredients,
then the finished product will be 90% Synthetic with 9.8% Petroleum and 0.2% of additives.
When the treat rate is 20% and the Additive Package contains 4% of the active ingredients,
then the finished product will be 80% Synthetic with 19.2% Petroleum and 0.8% of additives.
The "small percentage" (according to Mobil) actually is 9.8% to 19.2%.
Many investors would be thrilled to get such a "small percentage" return on their money !!
(Just for the record, the average dividends for Mobil and Exxon over last 20 years have been in 2% to 4% range, and they jointly term this as "significant" return on Shareholders’ Equity in their Annual Reports).
OK then "100% Synthetic Motor Oil" is not really "100% Synthetic Motor Oil", but it is perfectly OK to say that it is 100% Synthetic Motor Oil, because the Base Stock is 100% Synthetic and that is what you really mean when the Motor Oil contains as much as 20% of Petroleum, because the Petroleum is not the Base Oil but the Carrier Oil for the Additives !!!
Now if YOU do not understand that, as most people do not, well that is just way too bad.
After all you just might not be willing to pay so much more for Synthetic Motor Oil if you knew it was not "100% Synthetic", or would you ?
Well, you probably are (paying too much)!
[/size][/font]
Well, if you think that Mobil or (ExxonMobil now) is less than honest, or even down right deceptive, that is not the worst of it.
Many other brands of Synthetics (Shell, Castrol, Amsoil, etc.) are NOT fully "synthetic" at all, at least by the definition used for years by chemists in all chemical companies around the World.
Some years ago SHELL in Europe and specifically in then West Germany introduced Motor Oils that were manufactured from UHVI Petroleum Base stock that although made from conventional crude oil, was subjected to additional processing not common on "normal" or "typical" Base Oil production. These (UHVI = Ultra High Viscosity Index) Base Stock containing Motor Oils were labeled by SHELL as "Synthetic".
Companies like MOTUL, MOBIL, AGIP in their respective markets did not like that labeling one bit, because the SHELL "synthetic" products were sold for substantially less then their own Brands of "Synthetic" Labeled products.
So years of lawsuits court orders, appeals, contra-suits clogged the courts of several European countries. At different times and in different countries contrary decisions or judgements were made. What was "synthetic" in one country on one day was "not synthetic" in another country at the same time. A real confusion for a region of globe that aimed to "unify" in the near future and become one great continent of "EURO".
What finally evolved from all this confusion was that the label term "Synthetic" is a marketing term, and therefore it is up to the "marketer" of the oil, to define what "synthetic" is.[/size][/font][size=4]
AHA !!![/size][font=Arial][size=2]
So now anytime you subject conventional petroleum oil to any unconventional process or reaction, irrespective of if it works (improves) or not the Base Oil, you can for all practical purposes call it "synthetic" i.e., Man-made.
SAE which had in its lubricant specifications not only definitions of what constitutes a "synthetic" but also a list of specific chemicals used as lubricants that were considered "synthetic".
Although SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) is US based organization, it aims at Global reach, and having one standard in the USA and yet another in most of Europe was deemed as bad as having English and Metric standards of measurements (at the same time).
The decision was made to go along with Europe (after all Metric is better), and as a result all reference to "synthetic" in respect to lubricants was deleted from ALL future SAE publications of SAE Standards relating to Lubricants.
Since SAE is a non-profit organization of Engineers, it had no desire nor financial might to involve itself in never ending lawsuits with mighty oil and chemical companies, so the simple "deletion" of all references to "synthetic" was perhaps the best and easiest decision.
When opportunity is there, it is only natural that some one will seize it.
It was CASTROL with their Syntec® Synthetic Motor Oil, which when first introduced up until December 1997 it was formulated with PAO sourced from Mobil.
In January 1998 CASTROL started to use much cheaper hydroprocessed petroleum base oils from SHELL. Mobil lost the opportunity to sell PAO to CASTROL.
Mobil Oil complained to National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus, which in April 1999 finally ruled in CASTROL favor, specifically allowing Syntec® Motor Oil made from SHELL XHVI slack wax stream to be sold and promoted as "synthetic".
To celebrate the victory, CASTROL Company spokesperson said:
"CASTROL is proud to be a major worldwide provider of synthetic formulated lubricants, and looks forward to continued participation in this exciting market. CASTROL is committed to upgrading its products and producing the highest quality synthetic engine oils. We will continue to explore ways to ensure that Syntec® remains a leading performer in the synthetic category"
WOW, someone missed their calling to be a Politician !!!
So now "synthetic" can be marketed as "synthetic" even if it is not a "synthetic"!
A slight clue that as good as "synthetic" is really not all that good, can be found on [/size][/font][font=Times New Roman][size=2]www.castrol.com[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2] , when the recommended oil change interval for CASTROL Syntec® Fully Synthetic Motor Oil is: 3,000 miles or 3 months – just the same as for ordinary conventional Petroleum Motor Oil.
A PENNZOIL with PENNZANE® is not any better and PENNZOIL claims are downright deceptive. The PENNZANE® which is touted as "developed for and used by NASA" has bee actually developed for used in vacuum pumps, and computer drives. It was never intended for or ever used in any engine! PENNZANE® in its pure form costs about $400.00 per US quarts.
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that in the Consumer version of the "synthetic" motor oil that sells for under $4.00 there is about a drop of PENNZANE® in 5 Gallons !
The Back Label of PENNZOIL "Synthetic" with PENNZANE® also instructs the user to: "change motor oil EVERY 3,000 miles for best performance" !
Why then it costs four times as much conventional Petroleum Motor Oil if it is not all that much better, and definitely does not last in service any longer?
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3]Someone has to PAY extra premium for the "synthetic" on the label, even if the content is not "synthetic".
[/size][/font]
So now that you know the thick and thin of "synthetic", perhaps you finally could and would appreciate the 100% Synthetic Colloidal Super Lubricants from SynLube, Inc.[/size][/font][size=2]
- [*]
- [*]
- [*]
- [*]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=6]Conclusion[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3][/size][/font][/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]Perhaps todaybeing honest and truthful is an old-fashioned and obsolete business ethic, but that’s how we at SynLube, Inc. have been doing business ever since 1969.
No we are not the "First" and we are not the "Biggest" when it comes to lubricants, but being what we are, when it comes to lubrication, we are and can afford to be the "Best in the Solar System, not just the Earth".
And NOW - it is up to YOU the consumer and the vehicle owner or operator.
With every penny that you spend you vote for the product that you ultimately buy and use.
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3]YOU have the final choice!
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]Will you choose to support products that are NOT what they say or claim ? Will you choose products that promote false advertising ?
Or will you choose the very best product, that in the long run cost much less to use, than the mediocre ?
When it comes to lubricants for your vehicle(s) the choice is simple:
There is:[/size][/font][font=Times New Roman][size=2] [/size][/font]<B>[font=Arial][size=3]SynLube™ Lube-4-Life[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2] ®[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3] – [/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3]the very best…..[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]
</B>
…and then…
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3]... there is the rest![/size][/font]
[size=3]
[/size][size=2] [/size]So now that YOU know "all about synthetic motor oil", which oil would you really rather have in YOUR vehicle?
[size=2]
[/size][font=Arial][size=5]
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=6]SynLube™ Lube-4-Life ®[/size][/font]
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Send mail to synlube@aol.com with questions or comments about this web site.
Copyright © 1996-2003 SynLube, Inc.
Last modified: December 16, 2003
[font=Arial][size=1]
[/size][/font][font=Arial][size=3]Lube-4-Life®
is a Registered Trademark of SynLube, Inc.[/size][/font]
[/font]
#33
07-10-2004 | 03:35 PM
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Here you go, article describing how Castrol had changed Syntec from 100% synthetic base product, and been caught doing it... yet still try to call in Synthetic by hiding behind symantics to keep the $$$$ high
Syntec Article
The Syntec in your MINI is no longer a 100% synthetic product, yet they still call it so, and charge the $$$$.
Your choice of course, but IMHO I think that stinks
Syntec Article
The Syntec in your MINI is no longer a 100% synthetic product, yet they still call it so, and charge the $$$$.
Your choice of course, but IMHO I think that stinks
#34
07-10-2004 | 03:38 PM
Banned
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,756
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Cooperb!
Here you go, article describing how Castrol had changed Syntec from 100% synthetic base product, and been caught doing it... yet still try to call in Synthetic by hiding behind symantics to keep the $$$$ high
Syntec Article
The Syntec in your MINI is no longer a 100% synthetic product, yet they still call it so, and charge the $$$$.
Your choice of course, but IMHO I think that stinks
Syntec Article
The Syntec in your MINI is no longer a 100% synthetic product, yet they still call it so, and charge the $$$$.
Your choice of course, but IMHO I think that stinks
#35
07-10-2004 | 03:51 PM
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
You have of course quoted an article by a competative oil manufacturer, whilst I was looking at the lubrication press acticles....
Make your own mind up about whether one is less biased than the other...
In Mobil's own words:
Q: Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ a fully synthetic motor oil?
A: Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.
Now do I want a mineral oil based 'synthetic' like Castrol, or a synthetic PAO based 'Synthetic' like Mobil 1 in my MINI?
I decided that Castrol was no longer synthetic in it's base construction, yet was still charging 'synthetic' prices for it's oil.
I didn't like the under-hand dealing, the significant formula change without notifying the consumer, and the consequent overpricing. And I no longer trusted them as a manufacturer, so I use Mobil 1.
Chris.
Make your own mind up about whether one is less biased than the other...
In Mobil's own words:
Q: Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ a fully synthetic motor oil?
A: Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.
Now do I want a mineral oil based 'synthetic' like Castrol, or a synthetic PAO based 'Synthetic' like Mobil 1 in my MINI?
I decided that Castrol was no longer synthetic in it's base construction, yet was still charging 'synthetic' prices for it's oil.
I didn't like the under-hand dealing, the significant formula change without notifying the consumer, and the consequent overpricing. And I no longer trusted them as a manufacturer, so I use Mobil 1.
Chris.
#37
07-10-2004 | 04:04 PM
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Even Amsoil use PAO as a definition for 'synthetic' oil...
So that really leaves Castrol with it's mineral oil 'synthetic', out on a limb
Castrol Syntec is a hydrocracked oil.
Meaning: Castrol has replaced the PAO synthetic base stock with hydroisomerized petroleum base stock.*
Hydrocracking, as it's called,* is the highest level of petroleum refining.
Castrol isn't even a synthetic yet Castrol ended up winning the battle when the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled that Castrol could still market its oil as "synthetic" despite their new formulation.*
Basically, they expanded the definition of synthetics to include Group III hydroprocessed petroleum oil.
Castrol Syntec is a fraud!
Chris.
The “Genuine Synthetic PAO Formulated” designation displayed on AMSOIL packaging indicates that the oils are formulated with Polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base stocks.
Castrol Syntec is a hydrocracked oil.
Meaning: Castrol has replaced the PAO synthetic base stock with hydroisomerized petroleum base stock.*
Hydrocracking, as it's called,* is the highest level of petroleum refining.
Castrol isn't even a synthetic yet Castrol ended up winning the battle when the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled that Castrol could still market its oil as "synthetic" despite their new formulation.*
Basically, they expanded the definition of synthetics to include Group III hydroprocessed petroleum oil.
Castrol Syntec is a fraud!
Chris.
Last edited by Cooperb!; 07-10-2004 at 04:17 PM.
#39
07-10-2004 | 05:53 PM
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
section8,
ROTFLMAO!
I agree. If you go out and change your oil for the heck of it, you will not miss work Monday due to car problems caused by changing your oil too much, unless maybe you forget to put the drain plug back in.
Synthetic oil enthusiasts,
Can you tell me why it says "Trisynthetic" on the front of a Mobil One jug?
ROTFLMAO!
I agree. If you go out and change your oil for the heck of it, you will not miss work Monday due to car problems caused by changing your oil too much, unless maybe you forget to put the drain plug back in.
Synthetic oil enthusiasts,
Can you tell me why it says "Trisynthetic" on the front of a Mobil One jug?
#40
07-10-2004 | 06:12 PM
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,526
Likes: 1
Castrol Syntec is a fraud!
Yes, but is it a good oil? Castrol's dino oils are among rated among the highest, especially in their ability to maintain viscosity as the miles add up.
Something tells me there's nothing wrong with Castrol Syntec and....HEY, I'm changing mine at 5,000 miles or less.
Yes, but is it a good oil? Castrol's dino oils are among rated among the highest, especially in their ability to maintain viscosity as the miles add up.
Something tells me there's nothing wrong with Castrol Syntec and....HEY, I'm changing mine at 5,000 miles or less.
#42
07-10-2004 | 07:38 PM
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,806
Likes: 0
From: Santa Rosa, CA
OK People, let's come up with some creative solutions here. How about those of us who like to change their oil every 5,000 miles save your slightly used oil, put it in a clean corectly labeled container and make it available for a greatly reduced price to the 15,000 mile people. I'll give you my used redline for free:smile:
Then everyone will be happy. Frequent oil changer can change away
Less frequent changers can save money
We won't pollute the environment as quick
Just a suggestion
Then everyone will be happy. Frequent oil changer can change away
Less frequent changers can save money
We won't pollute the environment as quick
Just a suggestion
#43
07-10-2004 | 09:58 PM
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,526
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by rwestn01
On Car Talk this morning they raised an interesting point. Changing your oil more often than necessary pollutes unnecessarily because that used oil has to be disposed of. They did not recommend doing it.
Aren't the guys on Car Talk mechanics, (or at least they used to be), who make money fixing broken cars? Also, "more often that necessary" isn't clearly defined, at least to me.
#44
07-10-2004 | 10:00 PM
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 204
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Originally Posted by LilRedMini
section8,
Synthetic oil enthusiasts,
Can you tell me why it says "Trisynthetic" on the front of a Mobil One jug?
Synthetic oil enthusiasts,
Can you tell me why it says "Trisynthetic" on the front of a Mobil One jug?
The evolution of Mobil 1 continued with the introduction of Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic™ Formula in 1999. Engineered to outperform even its world-renowned predecessor, Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic™ combined three high-performance synthetic fluids with a unique package of performance additives.
Or so their website says.
#45
07-11-2004 | 06:14 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 218
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asodestrom,
I like your plan. I too always leave my jugs of drained oil at Wal Mart for recycling. There are zillions of spots on my place where I could dump it, but as a land owner I feel that it is my responsibility to preserve my little piece of the Earth for future generations. I am not an environmental extremist, but as everyone else, I don't want to unnecessarily pollute.
I have not researched it but there have to be many uses for reclaimed oil. In the sixties when working in an Auto Supply after school, we sold "re-refined" oil. It was simply filtered and treated oil that people used in their old oil burners. I'm sure that there are many other uses for it now. After all it is combustible, so if nothing else it can be used as fuel for many purposes.
Many diesel owners filter drained oil and pour it in their fuel tank and use it for fuel. I did that when I drove 60,000 miles per year in a diesel car. It ran great and never caused any problems.
BTW Everyone, you can get a 36MM, 1/2" drive socket for your oil filter at Sears for $9.
Cooperb,
I have read on another enthusiast site that not all Mobil One products are fully synthetic. Do you know which ones?
I like your plan. I too always leave my jugs of drained oil at Wal Mart for recycling. There are zillions of spots on my place where I could dump it, but as a land owner I feel that it is my responsibility to preserve my little piece of the Earth for future generations. I am not an environmental extremist, but as everyone else, I don't want to unnecessarily pollute.
I have not researched it but there have to be many uses for reclaimed oil. In the sixties when working in an Auto Supply after school, we sold "re-refined" oil. It was simply filtered and treated oil that people used in their old oil burners. I'm sure that there are many other uses for it now. After all it is combustible, so if nothing else it can be used as fuel for many purposes.
Many diesel owners filter drained oil and pour it in their fuel tank and use it for fuel. I did that when I drove 60,000 miles per year in a diesel car. It ran great and never caused any problems.
BTW Everyone, you can get a 36MM, 1/2" drive socket for your oil filter at Sears for $9.
Cooperb,
I have read on another enthusiast site that not all Mobil One products are fully synthetic. Do you know which ones?
#46
07-11-2004 | 02:08 PM
1st Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 36
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A friend of mine has been a mechanic for a long time, and agrees that changing out the oil after the break-in period will extend the life of the engine. Since the engine gets the most initial wear, flushing out any microscopic metal shavings by changing the oil helps a lot. Even though it's not free to do, a little money in can save you a lot of money later.
He also suggested that I have all fluids (well, since I have a manual, just the engine and gearbox oil) after 5000 or 6000 miles, and then I should be good to go. Anyone else heard similar advice?
He also suggested that I have all fluids (well, since I have a manual, just the engine and gearbox oil) after 5000 or 6000 miles, and then I should be good to go. Anyone else heard similar advice?
#47
07-12-2004 | 10:01 AM
Banned
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,604
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What A Load Of Whoee
Mobil claimed that PAO (Polyalpha olephines) derived FROM oil is "synthetic" while Hydrocracked base oils (Unconventional base oils) also derived from oil were not.
The one court that would listen to Mobil (in Germany) came down on the side of Castrol and determined that both had a right to use the term Synthetic.
Period. End of Story.
The one court that would listen to Mobil (in Germany) came down on the side of Castrol and determined that both had a right to use the term Synthetic.
Period. End of Story.
#49
07-12-2004 | 05:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 204
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Originally Posted by pocketrocketowner
Mobil claimed that PAO (Polyalpha olephines) derived FROM oil is "synthetic" while Hydrocracked base oils (Unconventional base oils) also derived from oil were not.
The one court that would listen to Mobil (in Germany) came down on the side of Castrol and determined that both had a right to use the term Synthetic.
Period. End of Story.
The one court that would listen to Mobil (in Germany) came down on the side of Castrol and determined that both had a right to use the term Synthetic.
Period. End of Story.
Of course Castrol had to change the definition of synthetic to include oil made with a petroleum base that had undergone additional refinement.
So they diluted the term synthetic, as oils that were no longer made with the synthetic PAO base were now allowed to use the word synthetic on their labels.
However, this doesn't change the facts
a) Castrol Syntec is a non synthetic PAO based product, where as before it was PAO based oil
b) The other leading brand synthetic oils are based on a PAO synthetic base - Mobil, Redline, Amsoil etc
c) In the industry, a Mineral oil based product is not regarded as synthetic. No other manufacturer uses Castrol's definition of 'synthetic'.
d) Despite the mineral oil product being cheaper to manufacture than PAO based oils, Castrol still charge PAO level pricing for their 'synthetic' branded oil
You are of course free to use which ever oil you like in oyur MINI, however the term synthetic used against any oil product does not mean it's the same product regardless of manufacturer.
Chris.
#50
07-12-2004 | 05:12 PM
Banned
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Posts: 2,604
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Castrol is a British company and it used to be independent but British Petroleum (BP) bought them a three or four years ago.
Mobil on the other hand was bought by Exxon, again...two three years ago, the new company is called ExxonMobil.
We are down to VERY few oil companies..... has to do with the fact that it is cheaper to buy the proven reserves of an existing oil company than prospecting for oil.......
"First Division"
ExxonMobil (Biggest) (USA)
Shell (recently bought Pennzoil, Quaker State) (Dutch/UK)
BP(bought Arco, Sohio, Standard Oil) (UK)
ChevronTexaco (USA)
PDVSA (Owns Citgo) (Venezuela)
ConocoPhillips (USA)
TOTAL (France)
RepsolYPF (Spain/Argentina)
so we are all clear....lubricating oil is like a pimple in the butt of many oil companies. worldwide, less than 1% of refining and distribution is dedicated to lube oil (of ALL kinds and types)
Mobil on the other hand was bought by Exxon, again...two three years ago, the new company is called ExxonMobil.
We are down to VERY few oil companies..... has to do with the fact that it is cheaper to buy the proven reserves of an existing oil company than prospecting for oil.......
"First Division"
ExxonMobil (Biggest) (USA)
Shell (recently bought Pennzoil, Quaker State) (Dutch/UK)
BP(bought Arco, Sohio, Standard Oil) (UK)
ChevronTexaco (USA)
PDVSA (Owns Citgo) (Venezuela)
ConocoPhillips (USA)
TOTAL (France)
RepsolYPF (Spain/Argentina)
so we are all clear....lubricating oil is like a pimple in the butt of many oil companies. worldwide, less than 1% of refining and distribution is dedicated to lube oil (of ALL kinds and types)