While the 12 months is the max for synthetics, 3 months is the max for group I.

That is one benefit of the syntehics for low mileage drivers. I hit my 5,000kms on a pretty regular 3 month interval.

 

Aren't those people we just happen to know useful in situations like this...

All the science I can find typically states:

So saying they are all just oil is really missing the point isn't it

Check out a useful article on oil and oil changes here:

Wayne's Garage

Chris.

 

Science you say!!!

What is an ester? General formula CnH2nO2 Common family name ester

Let me see now isn't that a hydrocarbon. Hmm... so "organic esters: would be like ....oil...from the ground?

"Synthesized hydrocarbons" That would mean what? "To make up from by combination or parts of elements" according to OED While "refine" would mean "to purify or clarify by means of some special process" (OED) of course if you also added elements, like hydrogen, while you were refining, you would be...synthesizing.

So what your source is saying is that unlike conventional oil that is refined and distilled hydrocarbons, Synthetics are "organic" hydrocarbons that are "synthsized".

Or more simply perhaps: "Ours is better 'cause we add stuff"

Well so do the refiners.
Saying that they are "just oils" isn't missing the point, but more accurately perhaps we should say they are just hydrocarbons. In this case, perhaps thinking its the journey (process) that is important, rather than the destination (properties of end product) is missing the point.

My MINI, although possessed of personality and flair, is not yet possessed of any curiosity of where its fluids come from, or how they got there. At least I dont't think it is.

 

I'm just glad I finally remembered to check my oil today. I am waiting till my first scheduled service to get the oil changed in my 04 I got in Oct of 03. I'm not doing it myself and the dealer is far away in the big city I'd rather not visit. I'll tell you one thing I definately won't be purchansing anything at Walmart and putting it in my MINI against the recomendations of the manufacturer.

I can't believe you people would choose your beloved Walmart over MINI recommended Castrol just to save a couple bucks. Do you really think you get the same quality oil in those big jugs?

I also like taking the advice of a 'really old mechanic' or was it 'a mechanic who has been doing it for a long time', chances are a person like this learned the 'old way' and we have a 'new way' now. I am going out on a limb here but something makes me think our 1.6l fours are built differently than say back in the 60's or 70's when it was all 5+ liter V8s. I think we have a reduced risk of occuring 'metal shavings'. At least that is why I did not by a Dodge or Ford or Chevy etc. And I couldn't afford a Vette, yet.

 

Do I think Mobile 1 or Castroil Syntec or any other oil bought in a big jug at Walmart is the same suff I'd get if I bought it somewhere else and paid more?
Of course I do, as a manner of fact I'm sure of it. The Cokes in the big jugs
and the huge cans of Tuna at Sam's are the same stuff too. Do you think Castol says, "remember, these jugs of Syntec get the cheap stuff, there're going to Walmart?"

 

rhogg for president..... ah rests mah case.......

 

Folks, I'm not sure about these 10,000 mile intervals. That almost sounds criminal to me.

Did my first oil change this weekend at 1,150 miles, and the oil was pretty black. There is no way I would leave that in for another 9,000 miles.

I wanted to change oil at end of break in, and probably every 4,000 on my own with Mobil 1, and dealer for their service.

I'm hoping that the Mini computer is taking into consideration the difference between stop and go traffic folks, dusty road folks, and highway driving folks to determine that everybody should go 10,000 miles between changes.

And hey, only one bloody knuckle for an oil change. Battle scar!!! Gotta love those oil filters.

 

Well, I haven't had any problems following the recommended factory oil change intervals. My '04 MCS received its first ever oil change 2 weeks ago at 10K miles and our other MINI, a '02 Cooper CVT received its second ever oil change at 23.5K miles, also 2 weeks ago.

The oil was perfect in both cars. The color of the synthetic oil is NOT an accurate indicator of its condition, so don't go by that.

Folks, synthetic oils are a new technology and some of you seem to have a hard time letting go of the 1950's book of car maintenance. If you are gonna change your synthetic oil every 3K-5K, you are wasting your time and your money. Better yet, switch to Dino oil and replace every 3K miles for a lot cheaper than $65 per change of Synthetic oil.

The '02 Cooper CVT received its first oil change at 10K and the second 15K miles later. Yep you read that right. No problems whatsoever. Both oil changes took place on 1 year intervals, no more than that.

Both cars are driven 90% of the time in the city. I trust the technology and the way BMW has developed the service intervals for these cars. So far I am not dissapointed and have no reason to believe that I need to perform oil changes more than 1 time per year.

Your MINI's computer take into account its service interval calculation based on 2 variables:

1) Amount of fuel used
2) Driving style and operating environment.

 

You should buy one of those test kits that they sell at the auto store. Fill up the test tube with the used oil and send it to a facility that examines it. You then get a report about the quality of the oil. It will tell you everything about the oil, from the amount of particles to viscosity and beyond.

 

You all may be right. I may be too skeptical on the oil changes. I figure when the manufacture offers free oil changes, they may not want to recommend them in 3,000-5,000 miles like everyone else. And, I only hope that this doesn't factor in to what is best for our cars.

I've only used synthetic in my previous cars, but just surprised that 10,000 is the new mark. Oh well.
Synthetic oil change is only $20+filter, so no big deal.

 

I agree with you...and "having no problems" with 10,000+ oil change intervals on a car with only 23,000 miles means nothing. It's the long haul that counts, 100,000+ will begin to tell the tale of extended oil change intervals

 

For those interested there is study in progress (not sponsored by oil companies) on synthetic oil longevity with interesting results and lots of oil analysis numbers to ponder...

Synthetic Oil Life Study

 

The 10,000 mile oil change probably works okay for MOST people. Here's why. MOST people only drive their new car 'til the lease is up, it's paid for or they are tired of it in a few years. MOST people that buy a new car, don't run it past 100,000 miles, if that far. It would be interesting to know the average length and mileage of ownership.

It sounds like there are others here that fit in the same category as myself and do not fall in the MOST people category. I have several other cars and have driven MANY cars over the years. The most miles I have logged on one car was 533,000. The original engine went 380,000 miles and was still running pretty well when I took it apart. It was leaking at the rear main and the engine had to come out to fix it, so it made no sense not to overhaul at that time. That car saw hot oil and filter changes every 3,000 miles, usually the plug was pulled on a Friday night so it could be left to thoroughly drain overnight.

Was 3,000 mile oil change interval excessive? Maybe, but how can you argue with 380,000 trouble free miles?

Earlier in the thread there was a comment about the engines of the fifties and sixties. I'm one of the old codgers here and drove and wrenched on lots of fifities and sixties cars. True enough, they were not built as precisely as todays engines, worse yet they were carbureted. The fuel injection systems we have in todays cars virtually eliminate MUCH of the engine wear. Why so? Because carburetors cannot maintain good fuel atomization. With injection you have fuel vapor in the cylinders, not liquid. The liquid dilluted the oil, particularly during cold start up, washing oil off the cylinders causing tremendous wear.

Just as important is that todays oils are even much more evolved than the engines. ANY current premium motor oil is so far superior to the oils of the sixties that it would be like comparing a 1903 curved dash Oldsmobile to your new MINI.

So, does that mean that these engines and modern engine oils are so good that you can just forget about frequent oil and filter changes? If you drive the average of 13,500 miles per year, you probably can, because you will probably get rid of your car before you ever see any problems from it. If you want to see high mileage, however, change it hot and change it often. Oil = cheap, engines = Expen$ive.

BTW, yes the oil in the jug at Wal Mart is the same stuff that comes in the same marked jug that you buy from anywhere else.

 

No surprise here!

-Troy
NAM's Resident AMSOIL Dealer

 

above quote was edited by me (part deleated)

If you want to know if they are good send in your sample and have someone else or two or three others send in samples of your oil out of the same batch and see if both/all three/four come back the same. then we will all know.

Earl

 

'02 Cooper CVT is paid off and plan to keep it for a long time. 100K+ miles might not be off the mark.


'04 MCS will be paid off in about 24 months maybe less. This car is a keeper too.

So for those of you saying that only "idiots" change their oil at 10K mile intervals and that my car's engines will seize up because of this, please bring your evidence to the table.

I love it when people make "predictions" based on anectodal evidence.


Show me a car that hasn't gone over 100K miles following 10K mile oil changes using synthetic.

 

Yep, we shall see about that. Perhaps my MINIs with 10K mile oil changes will outlast yours!

 

I can't believe I keep coming back and reading this damn thread. I'm not an expert in anything mechanical, but I want to take the best care of my car that I can. This thread only makes me more confused.

What I've always planned on doing is to do a 2000 mile change just in case there are any break-in issues, then follow the one year recommended schedule. I'll also rotate the tires every 5K. It might not the the most conservative or radical but I think it will work for me and most other 'normal range' drivers.

Cheers,

 

Great article. Thanks!

 

"Perhaps" is the key word here.......perhaps it won't, and the cost of a new engine will offset my extra $35 oil changes by $1,000's of dollars.

As they used to say in the old Fram filter commercials, "you can pay me now or you can pay me later. :smile:

R.E.

 

"...they may not want to recommend them in 3,000-5,000 miles like everyone else."

Change intervals for other makes using synthetic (or not):

Porsche (9+ qt. synth.), 15,000 mi or 2 years.

BMW 6 cyl internal computers - (7 qt. I think), not calculated on miles, but usually is 8-14K miles depending on driving conditions.

Volvo (5cyl. with 6 qt. semi-synth. from factory), 7500 miles (may use normal oil at this change interval, but synth. is recommended for turbo versions).

Cheers,
Dave

 

15,000 miles from Porsche now!!

Man, in my 911RUF, and 928S4, they were relentless in pushing the 3,000 intervals at that time. But I guess I'm not up with the times. Or that was Dino oil, and things are that much better.

That was a pretty good article referenced today regarding the independent testing being done on synthetics. I probably won't change my ways totally yet, but articles and tests like that help change philosophies.
Progress being made in technology.

 

I have just under 2k miles on my '04 MCS. Having read all the previous posts regarding whether or not to change your oil before 10k miles, I think I'll go ahead and change the oil and filter anyway. While at AutoZone a little while ago, I didn't see an oil filter listed in the Fram, STP or Purolator(?) parts books.
Can anyone tell me just who makes a replacement oil filter other than OEM? I'd ask for the appropriate part numbers too but I think thats asking for too much.
Thanks alot and keep on motoring!

 

MAHLE makes the OE filter, and they made the AM one I bought at S&G Imports.
Autozone, PEPBoys, Murray's - I don't think they'll have MINI filters for another year or two, at least. You should try an import specialty shop.

 

I don't think the oil longevity matters as much as how much wear ends up in the oil. True, modern cars are machined to much tighter specs than older cars, but that doesn't alter the fact that there will be initial wear on the moving parts, and that wear (metal shavings, powders, etc...) will end up washing around in the oil. Those deposits can melt to/bind on/grind across other metal parts (some of which may not otherwise need to wear), and you'll end up with more wear than would otherwise be expected.

That's why Elan's oil was so dark, and why a post-break-in oil change is not a bad idea. Since synthetics can last so much longer, the additional time you leave them in the engine is more time for such particulates to accumulate in your lubrication.

There's lots of lubrication analogies I could use here, but I'm sure most of you can come up with ones that are equally painful.

Changing your oil out a little more often than recommended when you first get your car will rid your system of those particulates, and your wear will start falling off. I'm contemplating the value of flushing it again before my 10000 mile mark - I'm pretty sure that initial grime was the worst of it, and the 9000 miles I have left should be the last dredges of it.