I’ve got a little bit of a conundrum. What would you do? (see below..sorry, it’s a little long).

I have a daily driver 03’ JCW MCS with the dealer installed 03’ 200hp JCW kit. Unlike the factory kits that started being installed at the end of 04’, the dealer installed kits did not come with the 380cc injectors (200hp kit used the standard 340cc ones), or the JCW intake. The updated 210hp JCW kit came with the 380cc injectors and JCW intake….and a new 210JCW flash.

So….that being said, here are the mods I’ve done to my 03’ JCW (in addition to the JCW 200hp tune, JCW exhaust, JCW head ,JCW sparkplugs).

*swaped JCW pulley for a WMW 17% pulley (16psi boost w/ JCW head)
*Piper Cross Intake

My next mod is to add a set of Bosch 380cc injectors….I have them, just haven’t put them in yet. I also have a Innovate Motorsports MTX-L AFR gauge kit on the way, and I’m going to install that and log my AFR’s with my current 340cc injectors, then with the new 380cc injectors. I’m interested to see how lean the thing is really running with the 340cc injectors. It seems to run really well.

Based off of everything I’ve read, heard, and seen……with the new 380cc injectors, the AFR’s are going to be richer at cold start, and also at WOT. I’m guessing that’s not what I really want in the long run, even though it might be totally drivable, so I’m going to have to do something with the 200hp JCW tune that the car currently has since it was designed for the 340cc injectors.

My quickest option is to send my DME to WMW and have it flashed with either the JCW 210hp tune, or have it flashed with the WMW “Quick Tune” set up for the 380cc injectors.

I’m on the fence about what tune I want. I’m just looking for a tune that will work well with the 380cc injectors (and both should). The thing that interests me about the WMW Quick Tune flash is that it looks like it may take care of some of the issues that you see with the factory S/JCW tunes like the typical 2500-3000 rpm flat spot, and the sluggish throttle response. From the description of the Quick Tune on the WMW website, it almost sounds like it would do more to improve things than the oem 210JCW tune. The 210JCW flash will pretty much be a total reprogram of the DME, but the Quick Tune will just adjust a few maps on my 200hp JCW tune to get it running good with the 380cc injectors.

Should I go with the 210JCW or the WMW Quick Tune? I’m probably overthinking this whole thing, I’m sure either tune will work just fine.

Comments?

 

I have the dealer installed 210 JCW kit on my '05 (incidentally, they weren't doing factory installs until fall of 05 not 04)

As you have read, it is a really rich tune - but safe.
I only went with it while my new engine's warranty is valid, after that I'll be looking around for something to even it out. I've never seen any flat spots, the thing pulls great at all rpm.

If I was in your situation, given those options I'd go with the WMW version. Since you're not going full JCW in the engine bay you might as well. It's also likely they've massaged it better than the JCW tune.

But keep in mind there are now other options available out there.

 

back when i was tuned, jan/rmw, said the 17with the 380's was ok...but not ideal...
thing is your situation is different...you have the jcw200 software....so injectors are maxed out....as opposed to dialed down a bit...so just tossing in 380's will yield different results....
i would suggest the semi custom wmw tune would be more aggressive and might run better than the jcw210...not so sure the flat spot is tune related...mini used many software versions too try to get rid of a yoyo feel...some mods made it worse...sure it has been done before...and i bet wmw has FAR more gen1 experience than most dealers.....

 

Thanks for the info guys....I think I'm going to give the WMW Quick Tune a shot. And that way if I ever have them do a full dyno tune, I think I'll get a discount since I have the quick tune.

 

I can send you 450cc bin file for 19% pulley, I can detune slightly, and send. Keep in mind you will need legit kess or legit mpps to write it to the dme. Not sure if the knockoff has the drivers to write to the Siemens dme we have. I can also send you mods and you can let me know avg afr and issues and I'll tune accordingly. This will help me get a baseline bin for 380cc and 16psi vs what I have on mine.

04 JCW 450cc 19% Alta AB, MSD, Custom headers cat delete, dynojet wideband 2 wizard of nos 50shot w/fuel noid. JCW catback.

 

Where can I get the software to load the files into the DME?

 

Subscribed, very interested as to outcome here. I have a 10/03 build JCW. I have added a Dinan CAI and 380 injectors and 15% . It seems to be running well with the 200 tune. I am getting rdy to install a street cam from RMW and I know I will need to adjust tune at that point, am wondering if Ways quick tune would be better than just the JCW 210 tune?

 

I've been out of town the last week for work....but I finally got a chance to get my Mini into the muffler shop to get the bung for my wideband O2 sensor welded in.

As soon as I get my AFR gauge installed, I'm going to log the AFR's with the 200JCW tune and oem 340cc injectors (current setup), and then with the 200JCW tune and 380cc injectors. Then I'm planning on sending my DME out to Way Motor Works to have their Quick Tune flashed to it.I'll get some AFR numbers on that also. I think that's going to be a better choice than the JCW210 tune. Hopefully I will get everything installed this weekend and have to numbers back soon.

Sorry that car looks so dirty....it's been rainy and nasty hear lately...haven't had time to wash it.

 

Well I finally got my AFR gauge installed tonight. I fired up the logging software it came with and made a 3rd gear run starting at 3000rpms running all the way up to 6500rpms. This is with the 340cc injectors, the JCW 200hp flash, jcw exhaust, jcw head, pipercross intake, and WMW 17% pulley making 16psi of boost at 6500rpms.

As you can see.......even with the 340cc injectors.....it was running on the rich side. I guess that just proves that all of the guys buying 440cc injectors for their CooperS's with just a pulley are wasting their money

I'm going to install my 380cc injectors tomorrow....and log another pass to see how it looks......I will post it as soon as I get it.

The left side of the chart is AFR's....the bottoms is time in seconds.

 

Thanks for the info IQRaceworks. I'm in the same boat as you and ACallahan. Same mods on my 04 JCW with the 200 HP tune. I pick my car up on Monday with the new 17% pulley and 380 injectors installed. Can't wait to see how it runs with the new toys added. Keep us posted.

 

Keep in mind your injectors duty cycle. I experienced the same thing and the increasing mods and drive style taxed the **** out of the injectors they will eventually fail or can lean out due to leaks etc, your car will experience limp mode, multiple misfires or serious lack of power after 3k rpms at that point and you may smell a light fuel aroma during driving, the car will be drivable but will only be if you baby it and drive like a grandma. ***If you plan on tuning to maximize the mods you do have you will need to replace the injectors especially if the car has any significant mileage. Regards fellas

 

http://injector-rehab.com/shop/idc.html

 

I got the 380cc injectors put in today and logged another WOT run from 3000rpms to 65000rpms in 3rd gear. You can definitely see that the 380cc injectors (top graph) are running richer than the 340cc injectors (bottom graph)....but that was expected. The car feels slower...

I've already got my DME pulled out and ready to ship to Way Motor Works for their Quick Tune flash set up for the 380cc injectors. Hopefully the new tune will lean out the mixture a little bit and get it making some good power again

 

Yea, You can add more VE to that mixture so that you aren't just trimming the fuel and thus reverting back to stock fuel use, advance bottom end rpm scalars accordingly and retard higher rpms when boost begins to build and increase. I'm not familiar with the quick tune flash. You should ask them specifically what they are adjusting and ask them to send you a base map pre and post. Because you can lose a tune under the right circumstances unless they chip your dme which I 2wouldn't recommend for the Siemens. and it may be a good idea to keep a stock or current bin around.

 

Well I got my DME back from Way Motor Works today with their quick tune flashed on it setup for my new 380cc injectors.

Just driving the car around, I do notice a little more mid range pull which is nice. Wide open throttle (WOT) doesn't really seem much different. I think I notice more of a difference down low and in the midrange than at WOT.

Here is the same WOT run in 3rd gear starting at 3000rpms running up to 6500rpms. I was surprised to see that it's still pretty rich...almost as rich as the 380cc injectors and the 200JCW tune that I had before. I thought that it would be leaned out at little more.....around 11.5 or so on the top end, but it's pretty fat.....around 10.5 towards the end of the run. I guess I can't really complain....it didn't really seem to pick up any power when the pedal is mashed, but it definitely does feel like it's got more low end pull and mid-range pep.

Here is the new AFR log with the quick tune. I still think it pulled the hardest with the stock injectors and the JCW200hp tune.

 

I was curious how it would turn out, let me know if you want the original JCW tune, I have the bin file. I also have tuned mine specifically for 450cc inj and fuel ratio typically runs at 11.6-11.8 to 1 during wot. Richer is typically safer but I was skeptical and would like to check out what they actually did, or didn't do.

 

I'm just surprised that the AFR's before the quick tune, and after the quick tune are about the same. I was running on the rich side with the 200jcw tune and 380cc injectors.....and I'm still running on the rich side after the quick tune.

 

Mini's run rich...
Running leaner makes more power, but shortens the life...
Companies like Mynes made headlines with great numbers running afr's that were typical of most sc/turbo motors...most blew up...short lives...these motors need to run richer than typical too last...

 

11.5-11.8 is "rich" but safe. 10.5 is super rich....and slow.

 

Interesting. Anybody know what the afr would be like with the jcw 210 tune? I've got a 15% (makes about 16psi for me) with 380s and jcw tune but I've never measured the afr. Runs better than the 340s and stock tune did though.

 

I wonder if they actually increased your VE tables, MINI only uses roughly 1.3L of cylinder air, this can obviously be increased or decreased.

 

Running richer isn't always "safer" by any means. Too rich of an AFR can burn out cats and fuel-wash cylinder walls; neither of those is a good thing. 11.5 AFR is a good target for most forced induction cars, even at redline & peak boost. The R53 isn't a unique snowflake like we always want to believe, and requires the same basics that nearly all other port injected, low compression, forced induction cars need. A 10.5 AFR isn't do anything good for anyone. It wastes gas and makes shitty power.

 

^This^. There isn't a history of failed cats when running factory mixtures at WOT, nonetheless, it's not a recipe for top power.

 

He's right even with a nitrous set up in addition to everything else, I still aim to keep my tunes around mid 11 afr. Also nitrous will put holes in exhaust if you don't tune right it's less forgiving.

 

Just out of curiosity....what kind of AFR's do stock MCS's run?