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Setting Timing without removing Timing cover....

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  #1  
Old 10-20-2015 | 10:40 PM
silence2-38554's Avatar
silence2-38554
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Setting Timing without removing Timing cover....

So I'm just about wrapped up with my head gasket replacement project and it seems as though I managed to get my timing off by a tooth. When I went to start it up after the big reassembly, it took a LOT of cranking to get going but finally sputtered to life with some persuasion from the gas pedal. It wouldn't idle at first, just die. After starting it a second time, it decided it'd try to idle, though very rough & eventually died. So then, I'm thinking my cam is advanced a tooth.

There seems to be a lot of debate regarding whether or not proper timing can be set without removing the timing cover & lining the brass colored links up with the crank & cam gear timing marks. From what I've gathered online, you can also:

Pull cyl. #1's spark plug & insert a wooden dowel to use as a travel gauge, allowing you to find TDC for Cyl. #1 (and, in effect, #4).

Once this has been found, position the cam gear such that the engraved line is level with the back side of the head (closest to the firewall) and the arrow is pointing at the rocker arm bolt.

I'd love to hear if anyone has successfully or unsuccessfully used this method. Considering this project has been stretched out for a couple weeks, I'd LOVE to not have to pull the timing cover, but I understand if that's "the only way to be sure".
 
  #2  
Old 10-21-2015 | 06:06 AM
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Always took the front cover off and lined up the colored links with the marks. Have an ATI super damper and it comes off with a universal/generic pulley tool. You don't have to drain the oil. You do have to replace the gasket and the funny center bolt with integral oring and it's a good idea to replace the crankshaft seal.

The innovation we need is someone to sell a modified cover with a viewing window or oil plug sized port you could use to inspect chain position on the crank...
 
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Old 10-21-2015 | 07:58 AM
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Actually the color of the links do not matter. If you've messed up the timing by a tooth, remove the cover, spark plugs. Set the cam gear with the cam gear tool and check the position of the cylinders. take a long 1/4" extension and mark where it sits in the plug tubes when placing it on the piston tops. If 1 and 4 are different from 2 and 3, your timing is off. Remove the cam gear, move the chain one tooth, replace the cam gear and re-check.
 
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Old 10-21-2015 | 11:52 PM
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silence2-38554
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I'm pretty sure the colored links do matter, at least so says the Bentley manual and a Mini dealership technician that's been helping me through this whole project.

I actually dug into it today, trying to correct the timing using some reference pictures I'd taken during disassembly. Unfortunately, I'm unsure at what stage the pictures were taken and upon starting the car, it was obvious that the timing's still off (won't idle and valve train is VERY loud....sounds like a diesel). So then, I'm ordering a new timing cover gasket & oil pump seals now. Hopefully they'll be here for the weekend & I can get this damn thing finished!

Also, while it was apart today, I tried using the method of inserting a dowel through spark plug 1's hole to find TDC and lining up the cam sprocket's line to the back side of the head. The problem with this method is that the piston stays at "TDC" for a good while before it starts to go back down, so you're only gonna get accurate timing + or - about 3 teeth, which is useless. As far as I can tell, the only accurate way is still to pull the cover :-/
 
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Old 10-22-2015 | 07:55 AM
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Trust me: ignore the links. Remove the cam sprocket, set the cylinders at MDC, and then carefully put the chain on the sprocket so that it'll sit in the cam sprocket tool at MDC.
 
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Old 10-24-2015 | 11:20 AM
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silence2-38554
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The only issue with setting the Pistons to MDC is that you don't know if Pistons #1&4 are on their way up or down. Since the crank rotates at a 2:1 ratio in relation to the cam, does anyone know of a good method to make sure it's not 180 degrees off? Seems like this could happen and still have the timing marks line up, making it look correct but actually being completely wrong.
 
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Old 10-24-2015 | 02:00 PM
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Helix13mini
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Originally Posted by silence2-38554
The only issue with setting the Pistons to MDC is that you don't know if Pistons #1&4 are on their way up or down. Since the crank rotates at a 2:1 ratio in relation to the cam, does anyone know of a good method to make sure it's not 180 degrees off? Seems like this could happen and still have the timing marks line up, making it look correct but actually being completely wrong.
If you're starting 180 degrees off, you've got bigger problems. I'm talking about moving the motor a couple of degrees one way or the other to find the right timing. If you're turning the motor 180 degrees with the head off, you'd better call a professional mechanic.
 
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Old 10-24-2015 | 05:18 PM
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All that matters is the piston being at the top, when it is, set the cam with the line on the pulley to the rear edge of the head, cam cover seal surface.


The coloured link stuff is for reference in the ideal world when you know the marks are in the right place at the oil pump too, but it doesn't matter. The cam is set to No.1 at TDC
 
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Old 09-12-2017 | 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Helix13mini
Actually the color of the links do not matter. If you've messed up the timing by a tooth, remove the cover, spark plugs. Set the cam gear with the cam gear tool and check the position of the cylinders. take a long 1/4" extension and mark where it sits in the plug tubes when placing it on the piston tops. If 1 and 4 are different from 2 and 3, your timing is off. Remove the cam gear, move the chain one tooth, replace the cam gear and re-check.
when you say set the can gear tool, would you also insert the pin? And this is with letters up, correct ?
 
  #10  
Old 09-14-2017 | 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Iamtheguy
when you say set the can gear tool, would you also insert the pin? And this is with letters up, correct ?
There is only a cam lock required to time the first gen cars.
 
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