THANK YOU Eddie07S
I have now read through this one time and I need to go back and read it 2-3 more times to really digest. I appreciate your time and effort to pass along your knowledge. I read a lot in here and sometimes (at my knowledge level) it is difficult to know what is "hot air" vs. actual experience.
The "why" is very important. Thanks again.

 

 

Summary of current suspension variables & my own notes on this journey.
1) My skill and expertise as a driver - Novice/Intermediate
2) The Mini suspension. Stock springs and front sway bar / Koni FSD at least 10 years old / 22mm rear sway bar / some frame reinforcements as well as poly bushings.

1. I have not reached the limit of the car to the point of loosing all traction. Early on I clearly felt the understeer. As I get closer to driving the car to the limits of the breaking loose, which in theory would be at the track (guardrails & walls) or a mistake on the street (also possible guardrails) my goal has been to keep the mini’s limits far enough ahead of mistakes.
2. At some point it maybe good for me to actually spin the car? or come close to it? to find that point? (My friends and I learned how to drive on ice and snow in the overflow parking lot at our ski area, nothing to hit and we learned a ton with respect to traction, cause & affect and recovery) *A skid pad would be awesome…. Or maybe I need to do an Autocross event.
3. The 22mm RSB has helped reduce the feel of understeer and body roll, from my novice/intermediate perspective, but I may have over compensated in one aspect of the suspension, which may or may not become evident as I change others due to my skill as a driver to actually realize this.

2 more points from my post HPDE notes.
Number 1: Tires. First couple events I was on Toyo Proxes Sport tires with even tire pressure all around. I now have Falken Azenis RT615K+ which was a significant difference.
But what is really interesting is the next event I changed the tire pressure from 38 Front & 39 Rear Cold (don’t ask me where I go those numbers) to 28 Front & 33 Rear Cold and eventually landed at 28Front & 31Rear. That was a significant difference… even at my driving skill level. Points here are… Small changes can make a difference& all these tire changes gave the mini more traction keeping the mini ahead of me. My suspension changes may eventually give it less.

Number 2: Heavy Braking. The most significant point I wrote after the last event was this:
Brakes were solid. Flushing the brake fluid seemed to help with braking feel. CarboTech XP10s were great. Super solid feel. Car still has a twitch at the end of the front straight into turn 1 under heavy braking. Springs? Feels like the back end becomes loose and unloaded?
(Turn 1 at PIR is a 90 degree R turn, heavy braking from 100+ mph)
The changes to the mini I have made since these notes are only in alignment. 0 Toe Front and slight Toe in on the rear, in hopes of helping this. If my goal is to remedy this unsettled feeling what is my next suspension change?

How’s that for overload? Keep it coming Eddie... I'll take whatever you want to dish out.

My current plan is the IE Fixed Camber plates from Way Motor Works on the front. Add as much camber in the rear as the eccentric stock adj will allow. Backing off the 22mm swaybar from the middle to the softest position.

 

Ok.

Some more non-conventional wisdom for MINIs...

Your choice of pads for the front is excellent. Now, put the same XP-10s in the rear. The wiggle you are getting under braking is the back of the car getting light and dancing. As I was told by a BMWCCA HPDE instructor/racer “try a more aggressive pad in the rear, it will help to hold the back down”. A little counter intuitive, but it works. The MINI is designed to have the same basic pad front to rear. So, have matched race pads front to rear.

The thing that you will run into with the MINI single piston caliper is they will heat soak after a while of use. You will know that as they will start to feel less good. The pedal will be less firm...

How to test out when you will get into trouble with your 22mm bar and Koni FSDs... When you really don’t want to... A friend of mine it happened on a wet highway exit ramp; he looped it. I saw it happen to a MINI at Lime Rock Park (LRP) on No Name Straight going through the lefthand dog-leg (it is not a straight “straight”). Car got sideways, hooked up and shot into the guardrail at 80-ish mph. Another friend with his MINI at LRP coming out of the Downhill turn and onto the front straight had the back end step out and he put it into the inside guardrail. This is an 80 - 90 MPH turn in a MINI. Fortunately, he was a ways down the track and scrubbed speed when he hit and the guard rail was protected with a tire barrier.

Needless to say this where my thoughts about the RSB come from...

So my recommendation... A wet track day, bald-ish tires and see what happens going into and through a long, safe (nothing to hit for a long ways) corner and play with the car. Now, another misnomer - FWD does not pull you through a turn... Nope... Getting on the gas in a corner will cause understeer. Getting off the gas will cause oversteer. Been there, done that. And it is true for any car. Pick a corner that is a pretty long arc that can be taken a reasonably high speed and with nothing around to crash into. Drive though that corner and find a speed that it can be taken at that is comfortably high and without sliding. Next lap set you speed, set your steering angle, hold it there while you then step on the gas and see what happens. The car should push wide. Next lap, same setup, but this time let off the gas. The car should tighten up the turn without having to change the steering angle. You may want to try this a few times, with the first time getting off the gas a little bit, the next time get off the gas a little bit more, etc. I don’t want it to be so much you loop the car. If you go off the track sideway, you can roll the car (another friend in his MINI). If the back end steps out on you, you will have a fraction of a second to get on the gas. This will transfer weight to the rear to help correct the slide. It also will create understeer so the car will want to push wide, and if too close to the edge of the track, you will go off the track. If the car get too far sideways, there is no catching it... and you are just along for the ride.

If you have a snow covered parking lot and no one around, you can do the same things. Start out going straight and then put the car into an arc at a steady speed, then get on the gas. Then do the same thing, but get off the gas. You may have to add a little steering input to get the back to step out. What you said about the ski area is a good idea.

My caution is that as you learn to brake later and learn to trail brake into turns, the effect of the swaybar will become more pronounced and may hinder your progress as it, along with the trail braking, will likely cause oversteer you don’t want. In general (there are exceptions), if you find you are on the gas before the apex of a turn, you are over braking for the turn.

For tire pressure, you want to know where they are hot, too. This is where you want to be while running. Your cold pressure is just a target to get you to the hot pressure and that cold pressure can change with track and air temperature. Typically I find upper 30s, hot, works well for me with street tires.

 

I've had a couple people ask me about the roof rack I run on the Mini, figure I'll just post the info here.
I'm using an older Yakima set up because I had the towers and cross bars from another vehicle. The towers are the older Q-Towers (I believe there are couple minor differences over the years but the base plate rubber and clips should work on all Q towers.
The rubber bases are "A"
The front clips are "83"
The rear clips are "116"
The clips slide between the painted roof and the black gutters. No contact with the windows. It’s a little tricky sliding the clips into place so I usually place each of the clips first, then attach the Q towers (already secured to the bars) to the clips.

I can't remember where I got the specs and dimensions so take it all with a grain of salt. But I've been using this set up for a few years for surfboards and it's worked great.

 

Yakima has a page for all of their legacy applications that has measurements here. As I recall, they spec the late Q towers for the mini and claim the earlier ones don’t fit. I haven’t bothered to compare my old and new towers to see if that’s true though.

 

Sweet, much better than my chicken scratch.

 

Two establishing thoughts here:
1) I really know nothing about the OBDII diagnostic world.
2) I am trying to track my coolant temperature to see if opening up the middle grill and adding my air diverter is helping to keep the car cooler this summer.

Here's what I have:



The C310+
I've had this a few years now. It's been fine for clearing codes, monitoring data and I used it to track down a dead wheel speed sensor. Good for the money but the menus suck. And it's not really set up to use/monitor while driving.



The VEEPEAK & Car Scanner App on iPhone.
My purchase was based off this articles which I found very helpful.
https://www.carscanner.info/choosing-obdii-adapter/

Veepeak OBDCheck BLE+ Bluetooth 4.0 OBD2 Scanner for iOS & Android
Plugged it in, Got it connected through the CarScanner App. (don't connect through the phone) You then select your vehicle and it's all there, although there is not that much data with the r53, I am able to see my coolant temperatures which is what I'm after.

Couple things I will try to add to this post as I use the App more:

1. Screen shots of the CarScanner app
2. List of data available from the app.
3. Confirmation on clearing codes with the app.

 

I know my friends with R53s and track them have had no coolant temperature issues. It seems that the system works pretty well and it keeps a pretty steady temperature even in track use. I also know that the Gen I MINI is the only one to have available a nice aftermarket radiator for it... But if memory serves me correctly, I think that is more to cure a leaky plastic end cap issue they seemed to have. Not saying, don’t look into what you have. Just letting you know what I have see...

A simple monitoring method I use to monitor a lot of parameters on my R56 is the ScanGage II. Coolant temperature, voltage, boost pressure, ambient temperature, etc... All in real time. It will also clear codes.

 

Couple weeks ago, my neighbor and I went to the BMW HPDE day at PIR.... It is about the most fun you can have and highly addictive. This would be my 8 or 9 time going to PIR over the last few years and here are my post driving notes:

1. Felt like more mid RMP power/torque. 4000 rpm range... more power coming out of corners. Did not feel as under powered on most of the passes. Top speed maybe a little higher but not noticeable. I was probably mid pack of Intermediate run group...but it was a wide range of cars and drivers.
2. Started at 30F 32R PSI for first session cold. (Cool day around 55-60 degrees) Session 2 did not change or check the pressure & they were sliding and squealing. Session 3 before start they were up to around 34/35, not hot but warmer than in the morning. So lowered down to 29F 31R . Much better for Session 3.
3. Brakes were good.... rear end waggle under heavy braking was not noticed, so maybe the alignment was helpful.
4. Car felt well balanced to slight understeer in most turns. Never was there a case of oversteer.... so maybe it's time for front camber plates and adj. rear arms to add camber to the rear.?
5. Two thoughts on understeer/oversteer... if adding front camber plates could add to much oversteer: Back the RSB off to the lightest setting and run more even tire pressure (29psi Front and Back).

BMW day at PIR

There are also some super rad cars to see when you go.... here are the favorites for day.







Talked with they guy that owned the this McLaren... it is a track prepped car straight from McLaren. I think he said 500HP but he's getting a new computer to take it up to 600+. This car was by far the most impressive of all.

 

One of the best reasons for going to the track is to see all of the cool cars that people bring and, better yet, being able to talk to the owners... Those are great pictures from your last visit. Love the Midget...

Glad to hear you had a good experience and that you are getting more comfortable with your car, which you seem to be more happy with.

As for tire pressures - I understand that measuring them cold gives you a starting point, but the important pressure is what they are hot. I highly recommend that you measure tire pressure as soon as you come off the track, especially if they are starting to feel greasy. That will be the only way to know if they are becoming over inflated. If they are over 39 psi hot, drop them to 38 or 37psi.

As you know I am a fan of the camberplates, but not so much of the big RSB... and sorry to say, not a fan of the FSDs for the track (too soft). But, I also know that is what you have and that is what you are learning to drive on. So, here is my suggestion for when you put in the camberplates... lower the swaybar setting to the minimum. Run tire pressures of 37 psi hot in the front and rear.

As you become more proficient, you should be learning to brake later and trail braking into corner. This is when the big RSB can become a problem. This is also when, if you get a chance to put in a big FSB or something like a set of Ohlins coilovers, you find out what a really good handling MINI is all about...

Randy Pobst has run at Pitt and has posted a few videos. These might be worth looking at to see how a pro runs on that track.

 

I'm running a pretty similar setup. I've got the fixed camber plates, 19mm rear sway bar on the stiffest setting, and I'm on stock springs with FSDs. On my last day I was running 35-36 psi hot (started at 28 cold) I'm thinking of softening the rear sway bar because I have 0 understeer and occasionally the back end steps out on me. The FSD's aren't ideal for track use, and I feel like they are the weakest point in my setup for track use, but they ride so nice on the street...

 

The 19mm bar is pretty ideal for an otherwise stock MINI. It is about 50% stiffer than the stock 17mm RSB, which, from what I have seen, works well on the car. The 22mm RSB is almost 3x as stiff and should be paired with changes in the front to keep from having oversteer issues.

As for shocks, I like the Bilsteins. They have a lot of control while maintaining a pretty good ride. Not sure if there is a stiffness difference between the B6 and the B8s, but the B8s has served me really well with the MINI springs. Another option is the Koni Yellows. Those are adjustable, which can be used to balance out the RSB. Start out with the rear shocks really soft and the fronts really stiff. Once you get a feel of the car that way, you can look at slowly stiffening the rear and/or softening the front. The target would be to have each pair of shock more towards the middle of their adjustment range than the ends. If you are running out of adjustment range in either the front or rear, change the RSB setting. For example, if the rear shocks are full soft and/or the front is full hard, then soften the RSB. Vice versa, if the rears are full hard and/or the front is full soft then stiffen the RSB. Take good notes as clearly this gets to be a little more complicated with 2 pair of possible adjustments to make with shocks and another with the RSB. Also, you will likely want to reset the shock for the street vs the track.

 

bump32 - I missed this question:
Yes, rear camber should be added when you put in the camberplates up front. I forget the exact MINI specs, but it is about -2 deg in the rear. I would set it to the most negative number in the MINI spec or a little more negative than that.

 

Eddie07S & Racingguy04 Thank for your inputs.... much appreciated.
Probably no shocks this season.... I do like the FSDs for the street and trips to the coast. We'll see how far I take this track journey and go one step at a time. I have ordered the fixed camber plates from WMW so that's next. I'm not ordering adj. rear control arms yet... I'll see how much rear camber I can get with the stock arms.

Racingguy04... Looks like we have very similar set ups… sooo I’m going to fire you a couple questions. Are you running different tire pressures front vs. back? You are running Hoosier R7s? Did you run out of camber adj on your rear and thus install the rear lower control arms?

 

I actually bought the rear control arms because I have a pre-facelift with no camber adjustment in the rear and I had one side that was out of the OEM spec (not enough negative camber). I'm running 2 degrees of negative camber in the rear and at the left front. the right front is only at 1.4 degrees of negative camber (not sure if this is factory or strut tower mushrooming) I could use more negative camber in both the front and rear for the R7s, I'm a little hard on the outside shoulder of especially the front tires, but daily driver compromises...

I'm still experimenting with tire pressures, but I usually run 2lbs less in the rear than the front, My thought is there's less weight in the rear to push on the tires, so they need less pressure.

 

My understanding from talking to people at the track is that the slicks will use less pressure than a street tire. The Hoosier paper linked below would say it is close to the same, but maybe a little lower. I have no personal experience with them, though. And what I hear that RWD cars use for tire pressures doesn’t work for MINIs. 37 psi is as low as I go on my 200 TW street tires. Lower than that they don’t feel good.

Interesting thought. Tire pressure balance between one wheel and another is something I don’t have figured out at all. It does, however, change sidewall stiffness. I know that the autocross folks tend to run really high pressures in the front and low in the rear to help get the rear to come around. So, maybe, lower in the rear tends towards oversteer?

Sounds like your left front has some damage. The IE plates should give you only -1.25 per the Way Motors page. The MINI spec is something like 0 to -0.3 (at least that is what it is for the R56, which I think is the same). So the most you could have is about -1.55... -2 sounds like too much... Ok, a long winded way of agreeing with you..

I found the Hoosier tire guide on the Tire Rack web. This paper recommends a minimum of -2.5 camber. It also gives recommended tire pressures... For a MINI about 34 to 36... Hmmmm...

Not sure if you have seen these, but when I was on the Way Motors web page I found offset ball joints that give about -1.25 camber. These along with the IE plates would give you about -2.5 camber up front. They won’t correct any difference from side to side, though.

Side story - My R56 with the IE plates measured -1.5 deg camber for a long time. Just before I changed shocks one side measured about -2. After changing shocks it was back to -1.5. My guess is that the shock stem was loose in the shock body. There was no leaking but the shocks had lost their control and the wheels were really jittery over sharp bumps. These were the stock MINI shocks which I found were really poor in many respects. Not saying there is anything wrong with your shocks, just that damage can happen..

 

June 3rd 2021 at PIR
Changes to Mini since last track day;
(Front Camber plates are on order but didn't make it in time) Soooo I went a different route.
Set the 22mm RSB to full stiff (was in the middle setting of 3)
Rear camber was -1.3 and set it to max on eccentric bolt. Both bolts were rotated the same amount and I marked the old spot to go back. ***This changed the toe angle, but didn't have time to check/adj. the toe.
Tire pressure start 29F 30R Cold for first Session. *Need to take tire pressure as soon as I come off the track.

Results/Notes:
Session 2: Was able to run the car freely and didn't really notice a significant difference. If anything the front end felt like it was pushing through the really tight turns. Maybe the rear camber /more rear traction put more emphasis on the fronts giving way? The long sweeping turns felt pretty much the same: slight understeer.

Tire pressure is still in question. PIR goes Clockwise so L tires get most of the work. Started session 3 at 29F and 30R. My thought here is that I'm still looking for less understeer and if the rears give a little from being slightly firmer... that could help. BUT I also added rear camber so... I may have thrown it all out of whack. After session 3 (one cool down lap) I took readings as soon as I came off.
LF 36 RF 35
LR 37 RR 34
Hmmmm I'm out of my league here.

Over all the car did not feel noticeably different to me. (at my skill level) Lap times were very similar to last months HPDE day.

I also played with what Eddie07Swas explaining in the earlier posts: On a big long sweeping right hand turn. I was on the throttle maybe 60-70% and the front was definitely giving way to understeer. I let off the gas 0% (no brake) and felt the weight/traction return to the front but the back end did not get loose at all.

Brakes were solid. At my skill level I have very little comparisons but the "Poor Man's JCW" front brake conversion and the Carbotech XP-10s are great. My buddy cooked his brakes in session 3 soI specifically focused on heavy braking in Session 4 to see if I noticed any fade. My rear pads are still Hawk HPS but when they are fried I will get the Carbotech 1521s for the rear.

I still say the pedal feel is a little mushy over all and I will be following Grand-Cayman research closely.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ml#post4588243

The next steps:
Instal front camber plates.
22 RSB to softest setting
Check /Adj rear camber and toe.
Run tire pressures slightly lower over all & even front to back.


Getting passed on the front straight.

 

Sounds like you had fun!

And experimenting is good. Glad you tried what I suggested. So you got to feel understeer/oversteer (less understeer) with just the throttle alone. Learn to use this going through corners where understeer is coming into play.

Pick a corner and work on trailbraking. Easiest is a ~90 deg corner. Pick the brake marker that is one beyond where you normally brake. Hit the brakes hard. As you approach the turn-in point, start to let off the brake and turn in. As you approach the apex, let off more so that you barely have any braking when you release. Coast, or just a bit of maintainance gas through the apex. Roll on the gas until you are at full throttle at the track out point. A counterintuitive thing is that if the fronts are not gripping well (front is pushing) as you are getting back on the gas, unwind the steering a little. This will give the front more grip and it will stay turning better with less understeer... Like I said - counterintuitive...

Your hot tire pressures are about right for a CW track. What you need to do is for a tire is low, when hot, raise it up (the Harbor Freight $35 12v pump is great). With your lack of camber up front target for 37 - 38 psi hot, all around. But remember your cold pressure and your resulting hot pressure and that difference is how much more you want to set your cold pressure when you go to your next event. For example, you started at 30 in the rear. Your left rear got to 37 and the right rear got to 34. Your left rear is right on the money. The right rear is 3 psi low. So, for your next event, start at 30 psi in the left rear and 33 psi in the right rear for cold pressures. Do the same for the front. And keep track of this at each event so you learn what is the right pressure cold. The 3 psi cold in my example will be a little off the target. With data you will learn the right setting.

Your tire pressures tell me that you have the sway bar too stiff and the left rear is doing all of the work and the right rear is dong none. Your right rear is in the air for most corners and overall the car has less traction than if that tire was on the ground. I know you don’t want to hear this, but that is a recipe for problems, especially when you get the camber plates in. The problem is there are too many parts of the Cooper S suspension that make it less of an ideal track car than your might think. It is a good 80% car and a really good car to learn on. But, ultimately the front sway bar, springs and shocks are too soft to deal with the sway bar you have. A big RSB won’t fix these limitations. MINI spent Millions $$$ to design suspensions for the MINI and my advice is to follow their lead. Their base JCW suspension was amazing compared to the S suspension. The JCW suspension has stiffer springs, shock and sway bars, both front and rear. It works. I have now taken the base JCW suspension a step further in my track car. That works for my level of driving.

Think of the golfer who has a bad slice and goes to the Pro shop and demands a new set of clubs that will fix his slice. The Pro knows it is not the clubs; it is the person’s technique. Learn technique. Learn the technique that will mitigate the understeer of your car. Trailbraking is a big part of that, as is steering with the throttle. Learn the fastest line (which may not be the racing line). Then work on upgrading the car. Personally, I would put in a 19mm rear bar and the fixed camber plates and call it a day for now. Sorry, I have been the “conventional wisdom” route for setting up a MINI and it didn’t end well. If not my suggestion, do what you plan for the sway bar you have...

Here is what a friend says about driving his Base Cooper with the base JCW suspension (link). His only upgrades are 200 TW tires and race pads. He is still running the base Cooper brakes. And his times at tracks I am on is amazing. So it can be done.

No. No. No. don’t use the 1521’s on the track. Carbotech even says that in their description. Unless they have changed over the years, they are the one pad Carbotech makes that, IMHO, is crap... Match the pads front to rear... XP10s in the front, XP10s in the rear.

 

Thanks Eddie...
I have been talking to my buddy about trail braking... and I'm starting to think about it while driving.

I am going to keep better track of my tire pressures for sure and you notes regarding the difference in the rears (hot) is very helpful.

Without a full suspension overhaul in the plan, I think dropping the RSB back down is my next step. It's what I have and the front camber plates are on their way.
Re: rear brake pads. I hear you on the XP10s but are they going to squeak on the street? I love the XP10s but they sound like a school bus when I can't get them changed out right away. My neighbor (who knows nothing about cars) says "you need to check your brakes" ... and I'm not going to change out the rear pads every HPDE day too. Uhhhhgg.

Lastly (and this is more of my own journal than a question) is Horsepower.
Part 1
Last week there were only 8 novices and my 2 buddies had great instructors with basically no traffic, learned a ton. I was in Intermediate (no instructor) with at least 20+ BMWs, Porsches, Mustangs and Vets (all high HP) that would run up on me in the straights and then I'd be thinking about them & over driving in the turns until I could point them by. There was a fair bit in the sessions that I would get some open track time but I found myself getting slightly frustrated.
Part 2
At the end of the day I was talking to my buddies instructor, super nice guy, and he the summary of that conversation is: All these high HP BMWs, Porsches etc. are really fun to take to the track but these guys are just blazing around the track without actually learning because 1) The cars are so smart and advanced that they don't "feel" their mistakes and 2) Passing slower cars is way more fun. It's the low HP rear wheel drive (Miatas or older BMWs) that are really where the drivers are.

to be continued (I gotta get back to work)

 

I understand about having the car and parts you have. Just remember, if the back of the car starts to come around, floor the throttle. Keep your foot in it... Tell yourself that over and over again.

I ran the XP8 all the time, street and track, with no squealing. I have the Hawk DTC60 in the rear of the MINI now, no squealing. I can’t say the XP10s won’t squeal, but based on what I have had before, I doubt they will. You could try the XP8s, but they offer less braking back there and that will become more important as you progress and get better... For now, they would be ok. BTW - I don’t like changing the rear pads either...

I am going to quote back to you something that you stated...
If someone at the track came up to you and said that exact same thing, what would you tell them?

I am glad you are talking to instructors. Based on your comments, I think you have advance too fast. See if you can go back to the beginner group and get an instructor. If you are that overwhelmed you are not ready to move up...

It is called situational awareness. The more time you spend in the car on the track the better you will be at it. Not only will you be able to handle traffic around you you will see things that are going on around the track. When I first started out a friend with a experience said “Did you see the turtle in the middle of the track?” I said “What turtle? You are kidding me, right?” He said “No, there was a turtle in the middle of the track. Did you miss it?”. Ugh, I never saw that turtle. That was many years ago. Recently I as at a new-to-me track and came down around a turn and there in the middle of the turn was a turtle. I missed it. I did get a chuckle out of that. I saw the turtle in the middle of the track.

Someday you will get to see the turtle in the middle of the track too. But, it is going to take having an instructor in the car, every chance you can get. You need to learn the line first. That includes braking points, turn in points and track out points. You can only do that if you are comfortable the driving situation, which may mean being in a lower run group. Once you learn those you will then be able to not have to think about them and you can concentrate on the cars around you and mange the traffic. Don’t be in a rush to move up in run group. Don’t be too quick to kick the instructor out of the car. Even after having years of driving I still get an instructor in the car. At my level there are fine points to learn. Brake a little sooner and lighter, brake a little later and harder. Turn in about 3 ft earlier...

Here is a good example of what learning the track and time in the car will mean with respect to situational awareness... Every single car that goes by me in this video got a point by...

​​​​To a large extent that instructor is right... It is better to drive a slow car fast, than drive a fast car slow...

Learn on what you have. Take your time to learn technique. Learn to “fix” limitations in the car by “driving around them”; don’t change the car. In a lot of cases it is not the car, it is the driver.

Watch the IMSA races; they are up on YouTube. Watch the IMSA MX5 support races. Listen to what the announcers are saying about what the drivers are doing. Many of the races are Pro-Am (professionals and amateurs) driving in the same car. Observe how differently the 2 drivers drive. All of those drivers have instructors/coaches. But still there is a difference between the 2 drivers. This has to do with seat time and how well they understand technique. And also remember the car is setup as a compromise between what the 2 drivers like in a car. Both drivers have to “drive around the car’s limitations”.

Patient. I was once where you are now. I want the instructor out of the car. I wanted to move up in run group assignment. I was impatient. I look back at it and realize that the groups running the events I was attending really did know what they were doing and “holding” me back was the right thing. The thing was, they were not “holding” me back... I was not ready to move up.

 

IE fixed camber plates for my next mod... going for a little bit less RSB and less understeer.
Here are the previous before before adding the front camber plates: (using a level and some math)
LF -0.47
RF -0.58
LR -1.36
RR -1.48

Old top plates are not to bad. Rubber is in pretty good shape. Koni FSDs are staying put



Gained 5/16 inch in height. I don't want the mini any higher but I guess that's what I get.


Very well made and replaces the old plate with no issues. Biggest headache is getting the strut back in the sleeve.


Found 2 grey strips on the front springs which probably correlate to a certain spring/rate??? Maybe figure this out later.
I also adjusted the rear camber to get as much as I could. (start there)
After a string alignment/level alignment (which I'm getting better at) Here's the camber numbers:
LF -1.41
RF -1.45
LR -1.98
RR -2.14

So I gained about 1 degree in the front and over 1/2 degree in the rear. Still working on the toe alignment.
I have been avoiding looking at the car sitting flat, I don't want to see the front end height.
Taking it one step at a time, I have another track day coming up in about 2 weeks.

 

You should like this!

 

Let me start this post by saying that the IE fixed front camber plates were the final piece that got me to (what I feel) a well balanced Mini should feel like. Boom One more small step at a time. Sure happy with the the car.

This weekend my buddy and I went to Oregon Raceway Park out in Grass Valley. Took the long way and stayed at a friends cabin the night before.







The difference between ORP and PIR is huge!!!! With the little experience I have, PIR is a good track for learning, horse power cars for the long straights, and convenience to Portland but it is flat. ORP is 3 dimensional, shorter straights, vastly different styles of corners and will always offer challenges as one gets faster. Session 1 felt like I was starting from the beginning again and it took till session 3 to really feel even remotely comfortable going over the blind hills into corners. By sessions 4 and 5 I was able to feel the balance of the car and even felt the back end become loose and had to gather it in a few times. *which to this point has not happened.
Two thoughts here. 1) The front camber plates have taken away more of the front end push. 2) ORP has a ton of hills and rolls where the car can un-weight and if not accounted for can upset the car. Or put another way... mistakes are more pronounced when the car is light.
So I think I'm getting close on the the suspension set up for now. FYI Here's where I'm at:
Stock Springs
Koni FSDs
Stock FSB
22mm RSB on middle setting
IE front camber plates that are roughly -1.5
Rear camber is set to max which is roughly -2
0 Front Toe and slight toe in on the rear.
I have also added a front strut bar, cabrio braces and replace most of the bushings.... which is significant to the sum total.

Not a dedicated track car but it gets me out there having fun. If I do one more track day this summer I may drop the rear sway bar down to the low setting.... maybe.


Lots of HEAVILY modified cars at ORP. So rad to see and talk to the owners of these cars.


Favorite car of the day was this Z car... so rad.

 

Sounds like a grand time...

There were a few cars that came out in the 1970s that were “breath of fresh air”. The Z car was one of them. That is a great great picture of the one you saw...

It seems that the slight ride height change that came with camber plates was not noticeable in driving the car... And, as you found, they provide a big step up in handling.

You can make another big step up with the addition of a big front sway bar... A car that wants to step out in the rear is not a well balanced car, and it is not faster through the corners. And, no it will not cause the car to understeer more. One of the thinks it will do is to reduce body roll of the car in corners. An body roll that a MINI has in a corner reduces any negative camber that has been dialed. 2 deg of body roll on your car will result in your car having +0.5 deg of camber on the side of the car that is trying to keep you on the track and causes more understeer. If you are able to reduce the body roll by even a half deg, you have improved the front camber and reduced the understeer... So, while you will hear that a larger front sway bar will increase understeer, in a MINI or other car with a strut suspension, it will actually help reduce understeer. I have built a MINI just like yours and my current one. Guess which one handles better...