I've had my R53 for a long time now...right around 10 years if I remember right. It's one of the of dealer JCW cars...so it's got the JCW exhaust, head, tune, SC, etc, etc...I'm guessing it's around 200-ish hp. I've put a 17% pulley on it, and some different injectors...but at this point, it's just too expensive to build any more HP. Cams, BVH, and a custom tune would probably cost me close to $4,000+ when it's all said an done...and get me what, 50hp?

Compare that to the 07' BMW 335i that I just bought. MHD tuning app on my phone cost $150....bumped the boost from 8psi to 16psi, gained around 70+hp. Bought a set of catless downpipes...$225, probably added another 20hp. Bought a larger FMIC for $210, and upgraded the tune to stage 2. The car should be putting down close to 400hp at the tires...so basically over a 100hp gain for under $600.

What are MINI mods so expensive? $2750 for a cylinder head? $400 for a cam?, $1,350 for a header? Why can I get a phone app to tune my 335i for $150, but it costs me $650 (flash tool + tune) plus another $100++ for dyno time to tune my R53?

It's nuts...just doesn't make any sense.

I will say that having 400hp and close to the same about of TQ at the rear tires it awesome....but I still love driving my mini, I just wish it didn't cost so much to mod it.

 

I've been looking around and wondering the same thing now that I've gotten back into modding my Mini, and it's not just the performance parts: it seems like everything is ludicrously expensive, from trim panels ($300 for black pillar covers?) to regular OEM parts. It's not like the cars are unpopular either: I see them everywhere. Maybe it's that the modding community is rather small so performance parts companies have to charge more to recoup, and with the OEM BMW just wants you to go buy another one?

What bugs me is on top of all of this, the cars themselves are worthless. My car got a dent in the hood and it was totaled out. In other threads here people have claimed that their #1 worry is getting hit by someone else because their car would be totaled too, even with all of the work put into them.

I'm glad you brought this up because I figured this was just a known thing, but now that I think about it compared to my 2011 Mustang I previously owned or even my POS 2005 Honda Civic parts really are stupidly expensive for the Mini.

 

So you took a car making 300 hp from 3.0 L (100 hp/L) and increased power 33% to 400 hp (133 hp/L).
Now, take an engine already making 200 hp from 1.6 L (125 hp/L) and you can expect the gains to be more expensive, all things being equal. Adding 50 hp would be a a 25% increase to 156 hp/L.

US sales volume of 3 series BMW in 2007 was about 5x the MINI sales volume, so perhaps more incentive for tuners to target.

All things being equal, it's usually easier to make big gains on turbocharged platforms than supercharged.

 

It's not necessary the HP you can gain (I know a 1.6l motor isn't going to respond to mods as well as a 3.0l).....it's the price. Why can I get a tune for $150 for the 335i and a tune for my 05' F250 for $100......but a tune for my R53 mini costs me $650 plus another $100++ for Dyno time?

Why does a BVH for a mini cost almost as much as what the whole car is worth?

It just seems like the prices are so high.....it scares most people off.

 

I'm wondering if population really is a big player. Every other vehicle mentioned in this thread outsells MINI in the US from 5:1 to more than 10:1 (3 series, Civic, Mustang, F250.)

 

They don't call them money pits for nothing .

 

You're right on the money (pun intended). I would love to replace my R53 exhaust but I'm surprised at how much an exhaust costs while producing only an additional 6 hp. It's really ridiculous (1 hp per $150+) and I just can't reconcile the outlay. Same thing applies to cams, heads and tunes, as you say. So, spend the money and get 300 hp? I love driving my MINI (193 hp) and it's plenty fun but I still can't outperform a Mustang GT or SS Camaro so what's the point of going further? Like they say, "Stay in your lane, bro!"

 

I am not a follower of big Hw mods on R53, because they are very expensive the gain of the power is minimal.If I consider a base R53 MCS with 163HP, can get 240HP with this costs:
100$ 17% SC pulley
100$ for larger injectors 380cc
150$ remote tuned file
20$ interface for read and write engine ECU
150$ labour for fitting new pulley and larger injectors-optional for DIY guys.
No need other mods.
Results, can accelerate from 0 to 60 mph under 6 seconds.

 

Nope.....no way. Not even close. With a pulley, injectors, and tune.....you "might" mid/upper 190's.....maybe. look at the Dyno charts guys on here are posting with those same mods. It's rare to see anything over 180-190.

Also.... who's going to remote tune your car for $150? Not happening. $20 interface? Nope...keep dreaming. (That's what it "should" cost.....but you are probably looking closer to $600+ for tune and interface for the R53). Injectors will cost you $400-ish....not $100.

To get your 240hp number, you will also need a cam ($400++ and install $$$) and a big valve head ($2,000++ and install $$$) and probably a full exhaust...$900++ and install.

Not sure where you got your info but it's not even close to accurate. You are probably talking $5,000++ to get your 240hp. Oh...and don't forget a new clutch to hold that power.... probably $1000 if you do it yourself...add another $1500 to have a shop do it. Now you are into the $7,000-ish range...

See why I made this post? The cost of this stuff is ridiculously overpriced.

 

Here in the UK, people wanting more power than 300bhp go turbo conversion. I know still expensive but will give you more HP\$ than equvalivent SC HP\$.

Not sure what sort of HP you're aiming for, but adding something like TORQAMP suppose to give ~30% increase with some tests on YouTube.

https://torqamp.com/

 

Cool idea.....but $2500 for an electric turbo, plus all the custom fabrication you would need to make it work, plus the custom tuning.....all for 40-50hp, is still crazy expensive. And a new Toyota Camry (or most other 4dr family cars) will still walk away from you no problem.

You are better off to sell your mini, buy an older Camaro with an LS in it, put a cheap turbo kit on it, and you have 800hp on pump gas ...and probably still have extra money it your pocket.

there just aren't enough people modding these minis here in the US....so the people making parts, and the guys custom tuning them (all 2-3 of them in the entire country) are charging way too much... because they can.

You can get a full suite of HP tunners software for GM vehicles for darn near free.....the only tuning software you have for r53 minis is Bytetronik FA...And it's like $600....why is that?? Or pay Jan at RMW a Fortune to do a customer remote tune on your car.....all for a 10-15hp gain...maybe.

 

I'm talking about my own experience.No offence,there are two different tuning schools, american school based most on hw mods, and european school based most on sw mods.I tuned a lot of R53 MCS , with minimal hw mods,and good results on dyno.Look at that dyno graph, made in Germany this month ,car is R53 MCS equiped with 17% SC pulley,380cc injectors,Cold Intake from K@N, ECU MS5150(from facelift R53 MCS) , tuned by me for 236HP and 270Nm.Drehmoment mean Torque unit Nm and Leistung mean Power unit PS german name for HP.

 

I have a different perspective on the topic.

I am amazed at the options available for MINIs. While getting huge performance improvements will be expensive, small improvements, combined with the low weight of our MINIs makes a huge impact.

There are other cars out there for those looking for big horsepower and straight line speed. MINIs don’t need big horsepower to be great at what they are designed for.

 

I'm extremely confused.....the same mods here in the US are getting 180hp.....and you are getting close to 240hp. If the only difference is the tuning software, you had better start your own mini tuning company here in the US ... because you would make millions. I don't see how a little more timing, or other tuning adjustments are getting you an extra 60hp.

Something just isn't adding up.....not sure what though. Are you sure the Dyno you are using has been calibrated and is accurate? What are stock r53's showing on that same Dyno?

 

I agree with you......my 07' 335i weights around 3,500lbs and puts 400hp to the ground. My R53 weights around 3,000lbs and puts down 200hp.......but driving the R53 to me is more fun. Just wish I could get more power out of it as easy as the 335i....then it would be perfect!!

 

Is a german dyno, I guess they are very accurate in what they do, is only dyno file send by the german client.But look on my post I talk about MS5150 engine ECU, mounted on facelift MCS, because the old EMS2000 version can't be tuned at this value(236HP).But just imagine the difference between GP with 11% SC pulley and 218HP, and my tune on 17% SC pulley.If get more air, can add more fuel, and 240HP is limit of 380cc injectors,can't get more power because of injectors duty cycle.Car have JCW intercooler, and that help for a good Torque gain.

 

I don't think we are talking apples to apples as far as HP goes. No way you can make 240hp on 380cc injectors....they run out of duty cycle way before that.

 

Hello, Adrian. Does upgrading to the MS5150 ECU require reprogramming any of the other functions of the car, i.e., keys, door locks, windows, etc.?

 

No, this kind of data are stored in Body computer.Out of the tuning , must adapt the gear ratio maps because facelift have other values , and if not writen the real gear ratio your cruise control won't work.When I do an immo off ECU , i read also the original car file,and the donor ECU file,because I write inside the new ECU the real VIN Nr.Sometimes the donor car ECU must be recoded with NCSExpert, because let's say, you car is fitted with Automatic gearbox and the donor was mechanical gear box,if was R50 Cooper have 105A alternator and R53 have 120A alternator.Swap from EMS200 to MS5150 ECU mean to have the MS5150 made immo off on the right way.If immo off is done correctly, ECU is just plug and play.No need EWS alignment with INPA or other tools.

 

When it's all said and done.....tuning is nothing more than timing and fuel ratios. How are the best tuners in the US making 12-15hp from a tune....and overseas you are making 40hp??

It doesn't make any sense.

 

No offence,it's just a superficial approach to what it means the perfect tuned file.If i intend to do the perfect one I must mod around 75 maps, but for a decent file is enough 50 maps.
Timing maps are not more than 8, and fuel maps not more than 6.The rest of moded maps make the difference between 12-15hp and gain of 40hp.

 

But you are still just adjusting fuel AFR's and timing....that's it. That's all you can adjust......

Sure....you can have 75 maps....but it's still fuel, and timing, and that's it. It's just an internal combustion engine.

If you can get 40+ hp more from adjusting fuel and timing...start your own company, because you will become a millionaire.....I'm being serious.

 

Just to clarify as I can't see the chart properly.

Is it measured at the wheels or crank?

 

This is certainly one point of this conversation, many euro dyno sessions are calculated by the dyno for BHP not WHP, which not only gives you a higher number to start with, but gains are exponential higher because of this as well.

As far as cost per HP, performance parts and tuning is the same all around, it's all a volume business model, the more volume the lower the cost, and if you're goal is to modify a niche or less popular vehicle, then the costs will always be higher, simple as that.
And of course with all performance parts, the higher the gain goal, the exponentially higher the costs, esp when you calculate on a % of gain basis, as really should be done.

The fact that you can get a nearly 25% gain with just the basic modifications (pulley, injectors, tune) with no loss in driveability or longevity of your engine, is actually not a bad return at all, considering the cost of those mods.
And yes, while more expensive because of the above mentioned, let's call it "niche tax", a 200% end result in power (300 WHP for the Mini) is going to be expensive, no matter what platform.

Quite often it boils down to this when calculating how much you want to spend on changing a car.

"Are you truly interested in modifying THIS car, or are you simply interested in modifying A car."

If the latter is true, get the cheapest and most abundant vehicle to start with, and save money.
But if you want to be different or have a passion for something different, it's going to cost you more, in either money, time and effort, or both.
​​​​​​

 

In addition, it's very difficult to compare dyno numbers, when there are so many variables, even on the same dyno on the same day.
It it helps to retain some sanity in these discussions when you remember the basics.

Tuning is nothing more than making adjustments, (yes fuel and timing are the basics) to let the parts you have work together in a way to help achieve a desired goal, whether it be fuel economy or performance.

The more adjustment parameters and ability you have, (earlier ECU's -vs- the latter VDO ECU's) the better the results can be.

Then throw in the fact that all parts are slightly different, (even when manufactured one right after another) and you are then combining multiple slightly different parts with each other, the fact that results are as close as they are is actually pretty amazing. So variations of 5-10% really shouldn't be surprising at all, no matter how similar the conditions at the time.