R50/53 Purchased 1-owner 2006 MCS with just 4k total miles
#251
^^^ Although your resto **** project turned out great, not a path I'll go down. Whalen remains my first choice and I'll keep watching. Raceseng is 2nd choice, however their pricing IMO is much too high for what essentially are universal fitments with cost of adapters and collars on top of that. I "built" one in cart at $225 plus $21 lowest priced shipping option which I'm unlikely to do.
^^^ Agreed on incremental price increases and/or reduced content at msrp which wasn't a new concept during 1st Gen MINI years but a common theme across all car and other vehicle makers before and since. Options are highly profitable and most cars (including MINI) are dealer ordered for inventory with that aspect factored, since majority of buyers buy off the lot vs special ordering. Doing so can end up with poorly thought out combos. For example, my former 2013 R56 was dealer spec'd for lease with "MINI Yours" Pepper White door and dash trim plus steering wheel leather which was inconsistent with the White Silver body and Bright White roof paint scheme. I bought that CPO used as a low mileage lease turn-in, however that configuration by whomever ordered it bugged me despite enjoying it otherwise.
^^^ Agreed on incremental price increases and/or reduced content at msrp which wasn't a new concept during 1st Gen MINI years but a common theme across all car and other vehicle makers before and since. Options are highly profitable and most cars (including MINI) are dealer ordered for inventory with that aspect factored, since majority of buyers buy off the lot vs special ordering. Doing so can end up with poorly thought out combos. For example, my former 2013 R56 was dealer spec'd for lease with "MINI Yours" Pepper White door and dash trim plus steering wheel leather which was inconsistent with the White Silver body and Bright White roof paint scheme. I bought that CPO used as a low mileage lease turn-in, however that configuration by whomever ordered it bugged me despite enjoying it otherwise.
#252
YOWZA!
$225?
That is a bit too pricey, must've been one of the upper tier fancy ones?
They have pretty good sales a few times a year, so then is the best time to buy.
Their clearance aisle is another option if you find something that you like there, much of it is either custom configured or slight blemish.
https://raceseng.com/products/clearance
Right now there's a purple Chicane there that with adapter runs $115...
...in the descrip they note that the delrin will help the shiftknob from getting hot --- they ain't lying about metal shiftknobs getting quite hot on summer days, so with you being in Arizona that may be something for you to consider as the Whalen would get hot too, although using a cover while parked outside does help a bit.
Alternatively,
the brand is universal fitment as you say, and people across a variety of different marques use them --- much like a modernized upscale Amco, remember them?
Which means that they regularly pop up on the big auction site for fair prices, then all you'd have to do is get the adapter.
Example:
here's a big fat Slammer that was recently listed, no bids either, would have been under $50 total if bidded on and won.
$225?
That is a bit too pricey, must've been one of the upper tier fancy ones?
They have pretty good sales a few times a year, so then is the best time to buy.
Their clearance aisle is another option if you find something that you like there, much of it is either custom configured or slight blemish.
https://raceseng.com/products/clearance
Right now there's a purple Chicane there that with adapter runs $115...
...in the descrip they note that the delrin will help the shiftknob from getting hot --- they ain't lying about metal shiftknobs getting quite hot on summer days, so with you being in Arizona that may be something for you to consider as the Whalen would get hot too, although using a cover while parked outside does help a bit.
Alternatively,
the brand is universal fitment as you say, and people across a variety of different marques use them --- much like a modernized upscale Amco, remember them?
Which means that they regularly pop up on the big auction site for fair prices, then all you'd have to do is get the adapter.
Example:
here's a big fat Slammer that was recently listed, no bids either, would have been under $50 total if bidded on and won.
#253
Further,
I'm an ebay freak and all sorts of stuff pops up there if you keep a keen eye out --- once I found a NOS still-boxed JCW emblem kit (part# 51140301254) for $10 buy-it-now! That was probably the best MINI-related bargain I've got there.
I also scored my unused Scorpion header there...
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ml#post4572156
still expensive,
but much cheaper than buying it new:
I'm an ebay freak and all sorts of stuff pops up there if you keep a keen eye out --- once I found a NOS still-boxed JCW emblem kit (part# 51140301254) for $10 buy-it-now! That was probably the best MINI-related bargain I've got there.
I also scored my unused Scorpion header there...
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ml#post4572156
still expensive,
but much cheaper than buying it new:
#254
OK, home now, so went out to measure the OEM **** (lighter later version) for dimensional comparison to Whalen and Raceseng options. Total retail price posted last night was on the 1.4 lbs "Slammer" with all add-ons priced a la carte, incl finish, engraving, MINI NTA adapter and NTA boot collar. I now know I don't need that collar plus can also use lower cost M12x1.25 adapter, so that saves $45 plus subscribed for 10% off new customer coupon. The Slammer in textured grey would then be $180 less 10% + shipping. A returned as-new engraved black Slammer is $150 less 10% + shipping but I too like the grey matching my anthracite interior trim. So then, less $$ but still thinking I'd prefer a pristine Whalen. Solid stainless steel gets plenty hot in direct summer sun, however I'm at 5k' elev which doesn't get nearly as Arizona lower elev deserts areas do. Not often left unattended but when so, would cover with a hat...
#255
@MCS4FUN raises an interesting point about dealer basically ordering cars on spec, meaning that most cars are ordered with "popular" packages. One of the reasons there are so few slick tops, I imagine. Anyway, this makes me wonder if optioning in Europe is still more flexible. Most people there order their cars. Of course, grouping options into packages also reduces production costs so our European friends may be stuck with the same limited choices we have (save for the really cool accessories they get that we don't).
#256
^^^ My theory is that MINI USA dealers and likewise most other brands will be forced to evolve to Euro and Asia retail sales models, wherein a few display vehicles are in smaller square footage dealership showrooms/lots but not typically for sale vs the typical USA dealership overhead of large lots for new car inventory with carrying costs on unsold cars adding to the bottom line. In other non-USA regions without buyer expectation of shopping and driving home same day, it might be like the current/post Covid supply situation now, wherein place your order and wait. For US-built cars, shorter total leadtime without ocean freight transit time on completed cars.
#258
OK, home now, so went out to measure the OEM **** (lighter later version) for dimensional comparison to Whalen and Raceseng options. Total retail price posted last night was on the 1.4 lbs "Slammer" with all add-ons priced a la carte, incl finish, engraving, MINI NTA adapter and NTA boot collar. I now know I don't need that collar plus can also use lower cost M12x1.25 adapter, so that saves $45 plus subscribed for 10% off new customer coupon. The Slammer in textured grey would then be $180 less 10% + shipping. A returned as-new engraved black Slammer is $150 less 10% + shipping but I too like the grey matching my anthracite interior trim. So then, less $$ but still thinking I'd prefer a pristine Whalen. Solid stainless steel gets plenty hot in direct summer sun, however I'm at 5k' elev which doesn't get nearly as Arizona lower elev deserts areas do. Not often left unattended but when so, would cover with a hat...
Good reference pictures of Slammer installed on R53.
Photo credit = @Zillon
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#259
Update: Ordered a Raceseng "Slammer" in textured graphite with engraved shift pattern and M12x1.25 adapter just now. Decided that design complements both the B&M SSK and anthracite interior (as Oldboy Speedwell suggested) and worthy successor to the late great Whalen *****. Thinking I'll like it...
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#260
My ordered Raceseng "Slammer" shift **** arrived this afternoon, so I was anxious to evaluate. Yes, it's a beauty with obvious quality of machining and finishing detail. From everything I'd read searching old NAM topics, I (wrongly) "assumed" that the B&M SSK shifter shaft for post-facelift Gen1 accommodated both threaded for aftermarket and bifurcated for OEM push-on shift *****. So, I ordered this **** with M12x1.25 adapter without pulling off the OEM **** for look-see in advance. That mistake will cost me $$ (and time) by now needing to order Raceseng's push-on NTA adapter which is $25 plus postage. As shown in pics, the B&M shaft is bifurcated only, with no threading at all (lifted the boot ring to confirm no adapter with set screws beneath) which only accepts an OEM-style ****. Also showing comparison weights of the OEM **** vs Raceseng Slammer **** (solid stainless without the aluminum M12x1.25 adapter inserted) for those whom might be interested...
Edited to add ad'l pic of Raceseng Slammer with M12x1.25 adapter being typical installed weight vs the OEM ****
Edited to add ad'l pic of Raceseng Slammer with M12x1.25 adapter being typical installed weight vs the OEM ****
Last edited by MCS4FUN; 05-15-2022 at 08:47 AM.
#261
#263
#267
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Oldboy Speedwell (05-18-2022)
#268
Went out this morning and traced coolant lines to a small radiator mounted down low in front of the A/C exchanger not seen before and while doing that, noticed a tag on top stating: "Dutton Radiator Santa Rosa California" which was in same city as MiniMotors back then (see new pic added to bottom of post #25) Too much for coincidence, so I wrote Mini Mania again (first time was without reply June 2021) asking for any relevant information known. This time, got the reply below quite promptly. Seems then, this was a hybrid kit and possibly a 1-off unit. I'd read that MiniMotors was formerly affiliated with Mini Sport UK in some way. If so, the MiniMotors W-2-A intercooler might have been a collaborative project. This mystery remains unsolved...
"That water-to-air intercooler does not look familiar, and I've been here at Mini Mania a very long time.The unit in your link looks like it may have been a prototype - but I am not sure how we could have sold it, if we did...
Here is the W-A intercooler we offered at one time:"
"That water-to-air intercooler does not look familiar, and I've been here at Mini Mania a very long time.The unit in your link looks like it may have been a prototype - but I am not sure how we could have sold it, if we did...
Here is the W-A intercooler we offered at one time:"
#269
That is interesting. I seem to remember that there used to collaborations between MINI parts vendors and people on NAM. People and/or vendors would post what they were looking to do and somehow they would get connected with vendors to test out prototypes of products. So, while your mystery may not be solved, you do now know what it is not... But, still, there may be info out there.
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#270
Yeah,
looks like it's a hard nut to crack and may remain a mystery, but it'd be really cool if you do find the answer.
I've poked around a bit more in attempt to find one that looks the same as yours, but had no luck.
May very well be a custom collaboration as Eddie says,
or possibly a prototype.
Back then there were so many options available,
just for fun, here's a few oddball chargecoolers that I found:
Injen
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...tercooler.html
:
Laminova - not a brand but a style, with several different companies producing them, and eventually ebay versions.
sample thread:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...02-06-mcs.html
:
Gintani
This one is so spectacularly weird that it deserves full quote of adcopy,
circa 2007:
COOPER S CHARGE COOLER $3499
Gintani is proud to announce the first and only air-to-liquid after-cooler manifold for the Mini Cooper S. We have spent the last two years perfecting and optimizing the performance after-cooler assembly. Many have struggled with adding extra power to their Mini Cooper S only being held back by the factory intercooler. The factory intercooler is completely heat soaked after 15 minutes of any type of driving. Gintani has eliminated the entire factory intercooler system and has manufactured a complete replacement. Gintani's application technologies assure proper fitment from every part provided in the kit.
The cooler uses an air-to-water core allowing constant minimizing of air temperatures not allowing the engine control unit (ecm, dme) to retard the timing based on heat saturation. Excess travel of the compressed air is also eliminated by removing every restrictive factory part between the supercharger outlet to the cylinder head. Our replacement precision machined manifold has a core precisely hand crafted and accurately welded. Gintani pressure tests each core and test every system to ensure quality product. Distilled water and Red Line Water Wetter™ mixture is pumped with an auxiliary electric bosch pump thru the core and front-mount heat exchanger1 which has a capacity of 1.5 gallons. The system uses industrial AN fittings and Goodyear manufactured hoses for safe and extended use even in the harshest environments.
Testing has proved Gintani after-cooler system runs at ambient temperature at all times compare that to the factory temperatures of over 120 degrees Fahrenheit, thats hot! Gintani also tested and has seen a constant boost level maintained from the factory supercharger. Comparing the factory intercooler, which in tests have shown a loss of up to 3 psi. Gintani has produced a product that is a must have for any Mini Cooper S enthusiasts.
From the daily driver to the track warrior the Gintani aftercooler system exemplifies factory-tuned drivability resulting in the best-of-both worlds; smooth low rpm drivability and exhilarating high rpm power.
This Gintani After-Cooler System includes the following:
Custom Powder-coated Intake manifold with built in air-to-liquid core
Custom Cast Supercharger discharge manifold
Custom Front-mount heat exchanger1
Bosch Water pump with complete wiring harness
1 bottle Water Wetter™
CNC Bypass valve and radiator adapter and assembly
All fittings, hoses, clamps and boots are supplied
Illustrated installation manual for easy installation
Professional product support for all your questions
looks like it's a hard nut to crack and may remain a mystery, but it'd be really cool if you do find the answer.
I've poked around a bit more in attempt to find one that looks the same as yours, but had no luck.
May very well be a custom collaboration as Eddie says,
or possibly a prototype.
Back then there were so many options available,
just for fun, here's a few oddball chargecoolers that I found:
Injen
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...tercooler.html
:
Laminova - not a brand but a style, with several different companies producing them, and eventually ebay versions.
sample thread:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...02-06-mcs.html
:
Gintani
This one is so spectacularly weird that it deserves full quote of adcopy,
circa 2007:
COOPER S CHARGE COOLER $3499
Gintani is proud to announce the first and only air-to-liquid after-cooler manifold for the Mini Cooper S. We have spent the last two years perfecting and optimizing the performance after-cooler assembly. Many have struggled with adding extra power to their Mini Cooper S only being held back by the factory intercooler. The factory intercooler is completely heat soaked after 15 minutes of any type of driving. Gintani has eliminated the entire factory intercooler system and has manufactured a complete replacement. Gintani's application technologies assure proper fitment from every part provided in the kit.
The cooler uses an air-to-water core allowing constant minimizing of air temperatures not allowing the engine control unit (ecm, dme) to retard the timing based on heat saturation. Excess travel of the compressed air is also eliminated by removing every restrictive factory part between the supercharger outlet to the cylinder head. Our replacement precision machined manifold has a core precisely hand crafted and accurately welded. Gintani pressure tests each core and test every system to ensure quality product. Distilled water and Red Line Water Wetter™ mixture is pumped with an auxiliary electric bosch pump thru the core and front-mount heat exchanger1 which has a capacity of 1.5 gallons. The system uses industrial AN fittings and Goodyear manufactured hoses for safe and extended use even in the harshest environments.
Testing has proved Gintani after-cooler system runs at ambient temperature at all times compare that to the factory temperatures of over 120 degrees Fahrenheit, thats hot! Gintani also tested and has seen a constant boost level maintained from the factory supercharger. Comparing the factory intercooler, which in tests have shown a loss of up to 3 psi. Gintani has produced a product that is a must have for any Mini Cooper S enthusiasts.
From the daily driver to the track warrior the Gintani aftercooler system exemplifies factory-tuned drivability resulting in the best-of-both worlds; smooth low rpm drivability and exhilarating high rpm power.
This Gintani After-Cooler System includes the following:
Custom Powder-coated Intake manifold with built in air-to-liquid core
Custom Cast Supercharger discharge manifold
Custom Front-mount heat exchanger1
Bosch Water pump with complete wiring harness
1 bottle Water Wetter™
CNC Bypass valve and radiator adapter and assembly
All fittings, hoses, clamps and boots are supplied
Illustrated installation manual for easy installation
Professional product support for all your questions
#271
The Gintani, with the Water Wetter alone, wouldn’t last long here in the NE...
Great history, though...
The weird thing is, here we are talking about this stuff like it is ancient history... Well, I guess it is... But to me it seems like “yesterday” that my wife went to pick up her brand new, just off the boat, ‘04 MINI... That we still have...
Great history, though...
The weird thing is, here we are talking about this stuff like it is ancient history... Well, I guess it is... But to me it seems like “yesterday” that my wife went to pick up her brand new, just off the boat, ‘04 MINI... That we still have...
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#272
Interesting history and good reading...
The common theme on mine was clearly "Santa Rosa", with majority if not all performance mod work reportedly done at BMW of Santa Rosa (no records confirming), many of those UK and Germany performance parts likely sourced from MiniMotors of Santa Rosa (before acquired by Mini Mania in 2008) with MiniMotors being the USA distributor of Mini Sport UK and the most recent clue, Dutton Radiator of Santa Rosa (no longer in biz) on the intercooler. From my brief interaction with the original owner a year ago, seems unlikely he was a member of NAM, let alone active to the extent he could broker a deal. So I'm thinking a friend or acquaintance at that time helped make the Santa Rosa connection happen. In any case, 1800 of total 4000 miles on my R53 at my time of purchase were accrued driving from the east side of Phoenix to Santa Rosa round trip. This 2006 R53 was his 3rd and final one special ordered from Flow Mini and transported directly to his Arizona home, so he had prior 1st gen history. Sadly, he won't respond to further attempts to learn more, perhaps being angry at himself for selling with no need for the $$ or space in his huge outbuilding, If so, I can relate and perhaps you guys can too.
The common theme on mine was clearly "Santa Rosa", with majority if not all performance mod work reportedly done at BMW of Santa Rosa (no records confirming), many of those UK and Germany performance parts likely sourced from MiniMotors of Santa Rosa (before acquired by Mini Mania in 2008) with MiniMotors being the USA distributor of Mini Sport UK and the most recent clue, Dutton Radiator of Santa Rosa (no longer in biz) on the intercooler. From my brief interaction with the original owner a year ago, seems unlikely he was a member of NAM, let alone active to the extent he could broker a deal. So I'm thinking a friend or acquaintance at that time helped make the Santa Rosa connection happen. In any case, 1800 of total 4000 miles on my R53 at my time of purchase were accrued driving from the east side of Phoenix to Santa Rosa round trip. This 2006 R53 was his 3rd and final one special ordered from Flow Mini and transported directly to his Arizona home, so he had prior 1st gen history. Sadly, he won't respond to further attempts to learn more, perhaps being angry at himself for selling with no need for the $$ or space in his huge outbuilding, If so, I can relate and perhaps you guys can too.
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Oldboy Speedwell (05-20-2022)
#273
Injen one is funny have not seen that in a long time. Sema 2002-2007 MINI was hot and you had all kinds of vendors their. Now its truck focused.
MINI Madness had one at SEMA back in the day that now NLA.
MINI Madness had one at SEMA back in the day that now NLA.
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Oldboy Speedwell (05-20-2022)
#275
^^^ Thanks for the complement, however the only props I deserve is acting immediately when I spotted the fresh CL ad. Committed to asking price without eyes-on and didn't (visibly) flinch when saw it hadn't been washed. Figured, combo of low miles, condition and mods was well worth that price. In reflection, I'm thinking the guy didn't wash it hoping I would walk away on the deal after he verbally agreed (with obvious reluctance) to sell...
BTW, I read the topic below on the UK Mini Torque forum on the modded R53 in Portugal with much interest and have traded PMs with "citro" regarding his 2018 intercooler tests and also my apparent 1-off W-2-A unit. It's a good read for those interested in that subject:
Finally, a review on the Pro-Alloy TMIC!
BTW, I read the topic below on the UK Mini Torque forum on the modded R53 in Portugal with much interest and have traded PMs with "citro" regarding his 2018 intercooler tests and also my apparent 1-off W-2-A unit. It's a good read for those interested in that subject:
Finally, a review on the Pro-Alloy TMIC!
Last edited by MCS4FUN; 05-19-2022 at 08:41 PM.
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