R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006) Cooper (R50) and Cooper S (R53) hatchback discussion.

R50/53 Need Help! EP transmission and lots of error codes...

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  #26  
Old 04-21-2023, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by deepgrey
The Bentley lists it as the main engine harness connector, but I haven't found it on the wiring diagram because I can't find a connector number for it.
Is it the junction where all the purple wires are going into in this image? I don't see a connector number for it either.


 
  #27  
Old 04-21-2023, 02:13 PM
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This schematic shows the BLUE wire from the oil pressure sender (which is where I think the oil traveled from into the cylindrical connector), but the line goes directly to X11177. I don't really see the cylindrical connector there. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing?


 
  #28  
Old 04-21-2023, 04:04 PM
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Well, I thoroughly cleaned the oil out of the cylindrical mystery connector with brake fluid and reconnected the battery but it didn’t seem to make any difference. Errors still there and won’t clear.
 
  #29  
Old 04-21-2023, 04:06 PM
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I disconnected the ECU (I think that’s the unit near the intake). When I ran the codes with it disconnected I only got the following.

Everything came back when I reconnected it.




 
  #30  
Old 04-21-2023, 04:28 PM
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Here’s the codes with ECU reconnected.




 
  #31  
Old 04-21-2023, 05:15 PM
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I'm still not entirely sure what to make of the wiring diagrams without tracing things through physical harnesses.

Do you have fewer codes than you had before, or did you just not take photos of everything? I thought I remembered some kombi stuff from before. Oh, is that because you didn't start the car?
 
  #32  
Old 04-21-2023, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by deepgrey
I'm still not entirely sure what to make of the wiring diagrams without tracing things through physical harnesses.

Do you have fewer codes than you had before, or did you just not take photos of everything? I thought I remembered some kombi stuff from before. Oh, is that because you didn't start the car?
Good catch. I may have tested with tach disconnected or taken photos after temporarily being able to erase codes.

Here is current status with tach plugged in and not attempting to clear anything.










 
  #33  
Old 04-21-2023, 08:28 PM
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Darn. I was hoping that there had been a change in the codes you were getting.
 
  #34  
Old 04-21-2023, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by deepgrey
Darn. I was hoping that there had been a change in the codes you were getting.
ME TOO!

I keep thinking if I can get something to change it’ll help narrow down where the problem lies.

This weekend we’re going to keep searching for worn/broken wires.

I’ll see if I can make use of the ODB breakout box. Maybe try to hook an oscilloscope to it but this is a bit above my pay grade. Haha
 
  #35  
Old 04-22-2023, 11:58 AM
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Checking pins 6 and 14 on OBD breakout box is showing an open circuit I think. Because if i remove the OBD cable emoter reads 46K Ohms just across the breakout box.

 
  #36  
Old 04-22-2023, 02:15 PM
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I did the hidden speedo test 19 #2 which is supposed to move the tach and speedo and light up all the lights.

Surprisingly, the tach moved but the speedo didn’t!

When test driving the car, it’s the other way around. Speedo works and tach doesn’t move???
 
  #37  
Old 04-22-2023, 02:33 PM
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I’m going to test the Can Hi and Can Lo on the tach.
 
  #38  
Old 04-22-2023, 02:36 PM
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Disconnected the tach and measured resistance on CAN Hi and CAN Low.

100 Ohms! Seems like that’s seeing the resistor on other end of trunk line in EWS2000?



 
  #39  
Old 04-22-2023, 02:42 PM
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Where is the 120Ohm resistor in IKE? The Speedo or the Tach?

Measured resistance on CAN Hi and CAN Lo pins on tach and it was basically an open circuit. 38000 Ohms.



 
  #40  
Old 04-22-2023, 03:17 PM
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We disassembled the tach!!

Looking for the 120 ohm resistor.

Traced the CAN Hi and CAN Low pins on the tach connector over to R21 which is unpopulated. R21 would put a resistor perfectly in parallel with CAN Hi and CAN Low.

It doesn’t appear like anything broke off of the R21 pads though.

See pics.


 
  #41  
Old 04-22-2023, 04:05 PM
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You've safely moved well beyond my troubleshooting knowledge of OBD and CAN, which was already pretty minimal to start with . I don't know if any of my documents have info on that resistor or not. I'll see if I can dig up something.

I agree that it looks like R21 was never populated. The solder looks too clean to me. However... what's up with that big surface mount electrolytic - the 220 µF 35 V one? Has it vented, or am I just seeing the casting in the top of the case? I assume I'm just seeing things and that it's probably fine.
 
  #42  
Old 04-22-2023, 04:15 PM
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Okay, if I'm understanding the bus system document correctly, I interpret it as there being a resistor in the cluster where the speedo is (IKE, right?), since the document has the tach labeled as the "remote instrument pack."

Oh, and I think that's a Nichicon cap. Those should be quite good.
 
  #43  
Old 04-22-2023, 04:22 PM
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Wait, so you could be seeing the resistor in either the IKE or the DME, right? It says the CAN bus is a parallel circuit, with 120 Ohm resistors in those two modules (DME and IKE) and basically Hi-Z in all the others (10 KOhms to 50 kOhms), so the tach I think is showing fine in that respect? That is, if you assume the resistor is in the speedo and not the tach.

But if you're seeing 100 Ohms instead of 60 or 120... something's not right, I would think. I mean, we know something isn't right, but would there really be that much extra resistance just on the bus wires? That Fluke should be reading dead on, so it shouldn't be the meter.
 

Last edited by deepgrey; 04-22-2023 at 04:37 PM. Reason: more thoughts, but not another post
  #44  
Old 04-22-2023, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by deepgrey
Wait, so you could be seeing the resistor in either the IKE or the DME, right? It says the CAN bus is a parallel circuit, with 120 Ohm resistors in those two modules (DME and IKE) and basically Hi-Z in all the others (10 KOhms to 50 kOhms), so the tach I think is showing fine in that respect? That is, if you assume the resistor is in the speedo and not the tach.

But if you're seeing 100 Ohms instead of 60 or 120... something's not right, I would think. I mean, we know something isn't right, but would there really be that much extra resistance just on the bus wires? That Fluke should be reading dead on, so it shouldn't be the meter.
Yes, I would think the added resistance would bump it up over 120 Ohms. 100 seems a bit low but it’s the only near correct thing I’ve been able to find.
 
  #45  
Old 04-22-2023, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by deepgrey
You've safely moved well beyond my troubleshooting knowledge of OBD and CAN, which was already pretty minimal to start with . I don't know if any of my documents have info on that resistor or not. I'll see if I can dig up something.

I agree that it looks like R21 was never populated. The solder looks too clean to me. However... what's up with that big surface mount electrolytic - the 220 µF 35 V one? Has it vented, or am I just seeing the casting in the top of the case? I assume I'm just seeing things and that it's probably fine.
I did‘t think the cap looked too bad. Here’s some more pics.



 
  #46  
Old 04-22-2023, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by deepgrey
Wait, so you could be seeing the resistor in either the IKE or the DME, right? It says the CAN bus is a parallel circuit, with 120 Ohm resistors in those two modules (DME and IKE) and basically Hi-Z in all the others (10 KOhms to 50 kOhms), so the tach I think is showing fine in that respect? That is, if you assume the resistor is in the speedo and not the tach.

But if you're seeing 100 Ohms instead of 60 or 120... something's not right, I would think. I mean, we know something isn't right, but would there really be that much extra resistance just on the bus wires? That Fluke should be reading dead on, so it shouldn't be the meter.
I think the parallel 120 Ohm resistor in IKE and DME which should measure across Hi and Low at 60 Ohm.

If one resistor is out then Hi to Low should measure 120.
 
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  #47  
Old 04-22-2023, 04:59 PM
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I’m trying to measure the resistor in the DME but nothing is coming up.

I’m on pins 29 and 30 of the DME and it seems open.

On pins 29 and 30 of the connector, it seems open too.

I’m having trouble finding a good DME connector pin out diagram. Maybe I’m on the wrong pins?
 
  #48  
Old 04-22-2023, 05:04 PM
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OK.

DME disconnected both connectors.

Measure CAN Hi CAN Low at tach connector. 114.6 Ohms. So, it seems like resistor is inside Speedo.



 
  #49  
Old 04-22-2023, 05:09 PM
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Okay, that's what I suspected about the resistor. I agree, that cap looks fine. It was just the angle I think.

Is that connector at the DME X6000 or X6004?
 
  #50  
Old 04-22-2023, 05:15 PM
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Does this help?



 


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