A constant comment on MINIs is their tendency, like most frontwheel drive cars, to understeer. My '05 is my first frontwheel drive car. It seems to have a tendency to OVERsteer. Did I read that the suspension geometry was changed for '05? Do the changes promote oversteer? Am I crazy? Do I need to check my alignment?

Anyone gone from an earlier MCS to a '05 and noticed this difference in the handling?

 

I'm assuming you are talking about driving with the DSC off. In my experience, unless you are slowing into a corner downhill, I don't ever notice anything I would describe as oversteer. You should check the alignment.

 

Nope, with and without it. Going into any corner, flat or uphill, the car keeps turning in and steering needs to be taken out to keep a constant radius turn. (Not true on highway sweepers)

 

By oversteer do you mean the back end loses traction and comes around on you? From your comment "Going into any corner, flat or uphill, the car keeps turning in and steering needs to be taken out to keep a constant radius turn", I would infer the car just handles really well which is why most of us buy MINI's.

 

Minis understeer- period. Unless as the weight shift from "balanced", that is heading into the turn prior to application of breaks and steering input, is accompanied by lifting off the gas at any point thereafter. Specifically if the driver lifts off the gas (as in uh-oh Im too hot) into the turn, the the back-end will come around as if the car is oversteering. If you are experiencing this phenomina driving on the street I would suggest auto-cross or a track day with an instructor.

 

Get an allignement FAST. Sound like your toe is way out of whack. I had a bit of this when I put on camber plates and lowering springs before I got the allignment done. But if what you describe is correct, it's not a very safe situation.

Matt

 

Before we go rushing to tell him to get aligned, etc it might help to actually what his definition of "oversteer" is.

In my experience with an '05 S(auto-x) is that it really depends on the situation(road conditions, etc). Are you pushing the car? Is the ground dry/wet?

The S tends to oversteer on throttle off applications, however I would have to look at someone funny if they could get the car to oversteer in a throttle on application....

In terms of turn-in, the car turns in extremely well, a by-product of a well designed suspension and a relatively light vehicle. This tendancy to turn-in very well might be viewed as oversteer, but it really depends on your definition.

Like previous posters it is my experience that the MINI will understeer at the limit in almost any turning scenario...

Let us know how you are driving the car.

Peter

 

The way I read the post, if he were to let the car do what it wanted, it would turn tighter. This is not good at all. His quote you posted says just that. On turn exit, ever car I've ever driven straightens out on it's own, This is more true under power (where we all should be post apex). If this isn't happening, he SHOULD get an allignment, or stay on his guard, because the hiar on the back of his neck WILL STAND ON END often....

Matt

 

According to the rumor mill - there were no suspension tuning changes to the '05's versus the '04's. It should not oversteer from the factory in most conditions. You can still get the rear to come out, even on a stock MCS.

 

I find the understeer unnerving in my 05... This is my first FWD car, and am coming off an S4 (quattro). I find it wanting to push even just coming off a highway ramp.

 

It's nothing a few quality suspension tweaks can't take care of

 

Do you have LSD? I have my concerns about the FWD, too. I figure it's just getting used to it. I'm coming from a 328is, so I know that there'll be differences. My thought is that an LSD will mitigate, at least a little, some of the vargaries of FWD . . .

 

The car is not loose, the rear is not breaking away, but if I turn into a constant radius turn, with constant throttle, I have to feed out the steering to keep the car from turning further in. Maybe I'm turning in too much, initially.

I've autocrossed for twelve years, done track days and autocrossing in a Miata and autocrossed and did the Virginia City Hillclimb for six years in a Caterham Super Seven, both rear wheel drive and both set up to be very "neutral", which is what the Miata is, pretty much, in stock condition.

I'm not talking about driving the MINI at the limits of adhesion, I'm talking about in normal driving. The car is brand new, 200+ miles, but I will get the alignment checked. (It has LSD)

 

I just finished a run with my Dad's Z4. Totally different driving dynamics. Oversteer was very much a concern (because I'm particular used to front wheel drive). I really can't imagine any normal situation in which a MINI would be prone to oversteer. Even when I've hit a corner too fast and had to break suddenly, it may oversteer for a moment, but let up on brake and the car stabilizes immediately.

I agree, if you really are having oversteer problems, something is drastically out of whack.

 

You might be confusing your oversteer with over-correcting for understeer. My MINI Cooper S understeers. I noticed my rear drive car also has under-steer dialed into it but is much easier to correct by varying the throttle and steering input. The steering gear for the MINI is so quick that the first while, I tended to over-correct when going into a corner too fast and getting understeer. It's not as easy to feel the correction using throttle on the MINI as my other car. So it takes a bit of learning to get the most out of the car.

Hope that helps.

 

Hi Lefty,
you sound like you've done your share of driving, so I'll assume you know what you're doing (you probably have more skills than I do, but that's not hard). The only other poster I've seen that has comments anywhere close to yours found this when the tires were very new. They are slicker than they should be new, and in a couple hunderd miles, the true nature comes out.

You can change the understeer/oversteer in a FWD car, but it's a bit more unnerving than in RWD. If you're really concerned and it's new, have the dealership check you allignement. If you're worried about safety, they SHOULD be happy to oblige...

Anyway, the only time I get oversteer is in lifting throttle situations, and many have commented on this as well. Most add parts to the cars that will decrease understeer, so this would make your situation worse, not better.

BMWSCCA (I think) hosts driving schools for Minis. If you've been a rear driver all the time, one of the classes will help, and you can get some pointers from those that are familiar with the car dynamics.


I always wanted a Super 7. Someday I'll build a car for me, and it will either be a 7 or a Cobra.....

Matt

 

First 3 things I thought of and two of those have been mentioned. #1 check your tire pressures, you may be way over or under inflated in the rear and it's easy to check. #2 do you have the LSD? #3 Get alignment checked, toe could be out at either or both ends and 05's with build dates after 1/1/05 have adj. rear camber which means there is more chance to be wrong and you could have not enough or to much negative.

I had a very hairy test drive in a new car a few years ago and knew something was wrong. first thing I did was take it somewhere and check the air pressure. The rear tires were 15psi. over inflated!!!

 

I'd suggest disregarding wisdom from the peanut gallery A lot of people don't know how to drive as well as they think they do (I'm probably no exception). I'm no national champion, but I've been autocrossing for a long time and have instructed at autocross schools and in general I'm one of those approachable guys that will ride with newbies when asked. Most people drive into corners way too hot, and duh, it understeers. It takes a lot of seat time to figure out that it's not so much "the car" that understeers, as it is the way that the car is driven.

My HS Cooper (with the SS+) definately wants to push, but it's relatively mild and easy to drive around. It will also lift-throttle oversteer easily depending on tire pressure (and heat - I've found that cold days, where the front tires heat up quicker than the rears, can make you go like ).

It never hurts to have your car checked out, but I don't think you're seeing anything strange, I have to open the wheel up on our civic in long sweeping corners - frankly, it's been a long winter so I don't remember if I do that in the Mini or not It's only been driven like 160 miles since November, which was mostly up to the dealer for service.

 

Thanks, everyone. I replaced the 17" runflats with much lighter 16" wheels and tires. New wheels and tires I checked for air pressure, so they are fine. Handling issue is the same with both sets of wheels (of course the lighter wheels and tires make a big difference in most areas) both sets of tires, obviously, new.

I have a mid-January build '05 so I'll get the alignment checked.

 

I think that's a good idea. I also think there might be something to what Dr. Obnxs said about the tires being new. We've had a couple reports of MINIs going into spins with relatively new tires on them. (Less than 300-500 miles.) New tires come with a sort of glaze on them, that is from the mold release that's applied to the rubber when they're made. My guess is that this mold release burns off the front wheels first, due to all the power and steering, and most of the weight and braking, being in the front. The end result is more grip on the front and less on the rear. I'll bet there's a critical time window in the tires' break-in period when the front tires are starting to get pretty grippy and the rear tires are still pretty slick, and an aggressive driver is most likely to spin the car.

I would still investigate the alignment question, too, but I wonder how many miles are on those tires. (Hmm. I wonder if you might try swapping them, front to back. That might be an interesting experiment!)

Good luck. Keep us posted. And drive carefully until you get this sorted out!