Ponder,

Welcome to NAM! As many have said, the answer depends a lot on what your expectations are. That said, I never miss my '97 BMW M3.

Like you, I felt drawn to the MCS for reasons beyond what I could objectively identify. You're doing the right thing by investigating and studying your choices. All the cars you're considering are great cars, but the MCS just has something special about it. Drive the cars you think you like. Drive the MCS last. Then make your decision. I would not be at all surprised to see you pick the MCS. And, I'd be very surprised if you miss your Maxima.

 

I think you may regret it...eventually. It might not be the car for you.

I went from a ~400hp Dodge Stealth TT to my MCS.
I swore I would never buy an MCS until I test drove it, and came back grinning from ear to ear. The MCS has been great for the past 2 years....Now, some of the novelty has warn off. Little things are starting to bug me more and more about my MCS, and I ALWAYS find myself wanting more power, I miss the low-end torque (stock was 307tq @ 2500rpm) and that "always have tons of power in any situation" feeling. I miss the good old days. I also miss the "kick you back in the seat, I'm going to be sick feeling" of AWD launches.

I think you will have fun with the MCS for a while, but eventually get bored. Then again if you are buying used, it will be easy to sell it once you've had your fun.

 

We sold our Maxima to get the Mini. No regrets there. This year we picked up a TT and put about 10k miles on it. It was a chipped Quattro with nearly 300hp, and would likely smoke any stock S2000. The Audi is a very fun car, has a nicer interior than the Mini, and gets more looks from the general public. Sold that one last week and still have the Mini.

In fact, we like the Mini so much we've got a new 06 on order that should be at the dealer later this month.

Get the Mini

Consider buying new as well. I'm with you on not eating the new depreciation, but these cars hodl their value. We are looking at trading in a 04 MCS with 30k miles and we should only lose about 3k on the trade. $3k for 24 months of driving works out to just over $100/month we spent to drive this thing. It's the only car I'd buy new right now.

 

Clive, do you have a pulley? It makes a huge difference.

 

E/A is right. A pulley, and especially a high flow exhaust, header and intake make a world of difference.

Or you could just go with a lightly pre-owned JCW MCS.

I love ours. I didn't even want a MINI when we started looking for one. It was my wife that was crazy for one. Then I got the bug myself, despite the fact that I was he11 bent on getting an NSX. The MINI is no cobra, but it isn't trying to be.

By the way, when you are out shopping around, don't forget to consider curb weight when you get caught up in the horsepower and torque debate. A MINI S weighs 2600 - 2700 lbs. It's a bit heavy for it's dimensions, but it's built like a brick.

Still, at 2600 lbs, it's several hundred pounds lighter that most cars you'll ever compare it to. That makes a big difference in the horsepower to weight ratio.

Some of the cars I see mentioned here weigh nearly 1000 lbs more than the Cooper. A 2005 Mustang GT is 3550 lbs., for example. A Dodge Stealth is 3,700.

The Horsepower/weight Ratio of all three, is not that different.

 

I would add that that the torque ratio of the other cars are much higher then the MCS. My old Mustang had 300ft lbs of torque and weighed 3k pounds.

 

That's not quite true. A supercharger makes our 1.6 ltr I4's more peppy, that's true, but the enemy of real speed in our cars is still its weight. For a REAL example of a lightweight fast car, please see the Lotus Elise.

The flaw in your argument lies with the fact that the Dodge Stealth and the new Mustang GT have much bigger engines, more capable of producing low-end torque. Therefore, they're able to get to speed quicker and hold it. A Mini Cooper S, unless it has a mod list that includes a new header/cam and engine tuning, it's not going to beat a new GT in a straight line, even though the GT is heavier.

 

Beat me to it.

 

 

My recent purchase of a MINI involved cross shopping three other cars. RX-8, Civic Si, BMW 325i. My chief requirements revolved around cost both initial and running (I already have way too many $$$ invested in cars), having a back seat and being a car that would be fun and handle well enough that it wouldn't pi$$ me off in day to day driving. The Civic, as just released was hard to get, and a bit too bland. The 325's have gotten so expensive (10K more than the MINI), that I was unwilling to spring for it (I pay cash). The RX-8 was a real possibility, heavily discounted at the moment, great handling and on an equal level of practicality with the MCS. My wife couldn't get past the looks and I couldn't get past the reported fuel economy. On the plus side it is RWD and IMO in stock configuration handles as well or better then the MCS.

In the end for what I wanted, the MCS was really the only game in town. I wanted a practical small car with European, not Japanese, sensibilities, thats fun to drive and didn't require pilfering the kid's college fund or my 401K. My test drive didn't reveal a paucity of torque others have complained about and I had three other people in the car at the time. I put that down to the new gearing. What the test drive did reveal is a solidity of build definitely reminiscent of other BMWs. Clearly the best handling FWD available, all the time exuding Fun with a capital F. My wife, who resisted test driving a MINI for two years, as it wsa just too small, came away wanting it. So thats the way we went. Anyhoo, the car you're coming from is a very different animal from this one; it largely comes down to honestly articulating want it is your after and rounding up a few suspects. Once you do, you'll be able to figure out which one suits you the best.

 

Yes, of course all of that is true. Yet they still have to lug near (and in some cases. more than) a thousand pounds more. Which was the point I was trying to make. Mass is mass.

Besides, torque is what you really feel in the seat of your pants rather than "horsepower". Particularly around the low end of the RPM spectrum.

If you want to go straight and fast, buy a mustang. Or a stealth.

If you want to turn and still go fast, buy a MINI.

 

Absolutely!

 

Hey, you added the bolded out part.

 

Yes, I sure did. Because I came from an actually fast car, and when I got my MCS, it was stock, and "fast" wasn't an adjective I felt could honestly describe it. "Quick"? Maybe.

But fast? No.

Fast is having a 0-60 time of under five seconds. No MCS without major work done to it has that. So, I can't in any honesty call the MCS a fast car.

However, I'm sure it's "fast" for those who have not had a really fast car before!

 

Because hey, here's some more honesty for ya. For those who read Car & Driver, last month they did a "Superfour Shoot-out" where Mini Madness sent one of their cars to compete. It came in 3rd place amongst the small FWD crowd. 265 hp(the stage 4), and yet it ran the quarter in 14.5 at 101 mph. Now, even if that's conservative, meaning, that they didn't punish the clutch on that take-off, that's pretty darn average.

Now, maybe they were babying it, and the car can actually rip out 13 second quarter times, who knows? I think reading this article is when I finally faced facts and decided that I'm going to sell mine next year, because I realized that I'd have to drop a ton of cash on this car, and ultimately, it just wouldn't be worth it to me, just to get to what I consider a decent level of speed and power.

It just proves that MCS's aren't that great in a straight-line, especially not when there are plenty of cheap alternatives to speed.

But in all fairness, none of them handle like a Mini does, so, again as others have said, it all boils down to what Ponder wants.

If he wants a car that was as fast as his Maxima, sure the Mini could be that car, but he'd better be prepared to pay out the backdoor for it.

P.S. - Almost forgot. Here's the link to that article:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=6

 

No, no pulley. I'm hesitant after my experience with modded cars/reliability issues in the past.

Now I know I'll get flamed for this. I should not be defending the stealth, as I still love my MINI

Yes the stealth was fast in a straight line. But in the curves is still a killer with the power, AWD, electronic suspension, and 4 wheel steering. I've gone on a few stealth cruises since with my MINI and they can easily pace me through the twisties. They stick to my bumper and pass me easily at the first chance.
YES it is heavy.....but a 12 - 13 second qtr mile is a heck of a lot different than the 15second qtr the MCS would run. The 1.7second 60ft helps.

Auto-x depends on how the course is set up. Very tight course, MCS will win.
A few straights, higher speed turns, stealth will take it.

Two completely different worlds. Pick which one you prefer to live in, and don't b*tch about it (like I do) when you pick the wrong one. Now which one is sitting in my garage now? The MINI, and it will be there for at least another year. At which time I will buy an AWD sedan (STi?)

I will never buy another stealth because IMO they are completely unreliable. I was paying $1000/month in maintenance for quite a while there.

-end rant...

 

Mods are fun. That's why I can't stop doing them...

 

DING DING DING!

I think this says it quite rightly.

 

I forgot to address this part. The lotus Elise is a sweet car. Particularly the Exige. I've been in a few of them (elise's), and they are truely the closest thing you can have to a kart as a road car.

They are also double the price of a MINI, yet run a 4 cyl Toyota engine. The same powerplant as the Celica. I beleive they weigh about 400 lbs less as well. Getting in and out of them is like exercise and contortionism too! But is sure is worth it once you are in them.

 

The bad thing about the Lotus is that it's quite ugly. The good thing is it that it's 600lbs lighter than a MCS and has 20 more hp.

 

I don't think it ugly at all. I love the look of the Elise! I agree about getting in and out of them though. It's tricky.

 

I ordered and waited, it's hard to get you for add-ons when you have a receipt with all the numbers on it and hand written and initialed "Deposit fully refundable." They treated me right, and I would send anyone to them to buy a MINI. The models on the showroom all had that package on them but I declined. Never gave me a problem. Great Dealer, I guess they knew this time I wasn't just window shopping. BMW had already given me a loan approval # from online. Maybe I am just lucky or a decent bargain shopper, or the timing was just right, who knows. Anyhow, DOWNTOWN MINI gave me a good deal, no complaints.

 

Well, I'd certainly believe it, because yeah, their service dept is utterly top notch. I'm absolutely certain that I'll never find that much great service ever again.

 

To me, it looks too much like an insect on wheels. Most of the people I know think it's butt ugly too.

But I am glad you like it.

 

If ponder is still reading, it all has to come down to what you want. The MINI is a very fun car, I always enjoy driving it whereever I go. I did not come from an especially fast car, it was an off-roader suv, but to me the MINI is quick enough. Yah if I wanted to go to a drag strip I would be utterly embarressed, but if I went to an AutoX I should fit right in, after much experience of course.

Just be sure to test drive whatever you are going for. And you may want to look into getting a newer one, 2005+ as I hear the gearing is a lot better. Mine is a 2005 and the only MINI I have ever drove, well other then test drives at the dealer in other 2005s, but it is plenty quick for me.