All of a sudden I find myself scrambling for an in-stock MCS. Originally I had wanted DSC & LSD on a car I ordered I had to refuse. Now that I've finally sold my old ride I need something quick. My choices (in budget anyway) are

a:
HB/B car with SP, HK, MFW HB Dash Chrono Pack 24.2k
This car automatically has the DSC

b:
DG/B Anthracite dash & Headliner, Zenon's, LSD Rain Sensing Wipers fog lights. IT's optioned ala carte so no DSC but a big plus (for me anyway) is the lighter 16" wheels. 24.9k

I like "b" with its color combo, 16" wheels and LSD. BUT my significant other is worried it wouldn't be as 'safe' without the DSC, which she's found to be highly recommended as the best safety feature this side of seat belts. I'm thinking (and the Advisor is strongly suggesting) the LSD will do most of what the DSC does anyway.

What do you guys think?

Thanks!

 

No, LSD will definitely not do what DSC does to save you from a spin.

DSC definitely helps when the road surface is much slicker than you think (in other words, you're driving too fast) and you lose control.

Its a tough choice, I'd rather wait out for a car that has both LSD and DSC, if not, for safety's sake go for the one with DSC.

 

I'll take the minority view on DSC. DSC isn't infalible either. In point of fact, its not a substitute for understanding what you as a driver and your car can and cannot do. DSC might save your butt if your doing something stupid, but only up to a point. If your concern is safety, with or without DSC, learn to drive! Go to CC schools, AX, Driver Ed, what have you. That will make you far safer than any chip can. It gets harder to believe everyday, but for years people actually survived driving cars with a heck of a lot less chassis than the MINI without DSC, ABD, ABS or any of the other alphabet soup of todays supposed driver aids. Personally if I really wanted someone or something else to drive the car for me, I'd hire a chaffeur. As I don't, as I think I'm smarter than electronics, I'll make my own decisions as I don't want anything intruding at a critical moment. Which my guess is exactly what you need in order to decide which car to buy. So I'll shut up. Best of luck !

 

DSC does its thing all the time. LSD does its thing when you are on the gas, hard.

DSC is a safety feature, LSD is a performance feature.

Of course now someone will disagree with those statements. I forsee someone saying "DSC almost got me killed, it's not a safety feature, it's dangerous!" and someone else saying "LSD is too a safety feature! You can stomp on the gas and instead of spinning a tire, you'll actually go someplace." Such is the internet.

 

SNID is absolutely correct! If your primary focus is safety, go for the DSC. If your primary focus is performance, go for the LSD. If you want the best of both worlds, get both. You can always turn off the DSC.

Isn't it ironic that the majority of humanity refuses to accept the fact that, "performance" and "safety" are not the same thing. In case you don't understand, ask an astronaut, or a formula 1 driver.

 

My car is like the second one, LSD and no DSC and I am absolutely fine with it.

LSD helps you get traction to accelerate, If one tire is spinning more power will go to the one with traction. At least that is my understanding of it.

DSC builds on ASC. ASC is standard on all cooper s and possible coopers but not sure on the cooper. ASC uses the abs to see what tires are slipping and can adjust throttle accordingly. DSC does the same thing but has added sensors to tell if you are sliding, rather then just losing traction. Personally in the snow, I tend to like sliding when I know I can, so a lot of the time ASC is off.

Just remember, no car is going to save you from being incredibly stupid, so drive sensibly and pay attention and you will be fine however you go.

The one performance plus I heard for DSC is it can help you learn how to take a line. Basically it can be like a trainer to tell you when you have left the ideal line and are going to start to slide

 

Same here. I learned to drive w/o the computer helping me, now I have ASC and only had to shut it off once to get out of some mud on a dirt road. I've used the LSD and love it, but it is a perfomance feature. I'd suggest doing a search for information on the DSC, most of the posts I've read many people usually drive around with DSC turned off. It's your call good luck, and ethier way you get to drive a MINI

 

Ok, I'll bite.

LSD is a safety feature, too. If you lose traction, you'll lose both drive wheels with LSD. This means you're far more likely to maintain a straight line. And being hard on throttle isn't the only time LSD will help. It takes very little power to the inside wheel to break traction going around a corner. So little that it would hardly be considered a rare occurrence in normal driving conditions. If the roads happen to be slick, it will help keep the car on course.

For the parent poster, my opinion is in line with rjmann's. If safety under adverse conditions is a big enough concern to warrant spending several hundred dollars, you will be best served spending on personal training. It's a must better strategy in life to behave in a safe manner than to rely upon safe equipment.

 

And even better to do both (behave in a safe manner with safety equipment as a backup).

They're called accidents for a reason.

 

yeah because no one wants to accept blame, or think their loved one could be responsible for their own or another's injury/death, not because they are truly accidents. People kill people, not "car accidents."

 

b.

 

Great answers and I was sure you all would be able to come up with them too.

As my first set of wheels in 1969 - a P1800 Volvo, I should have at least rudimentary driving skills by now. However it would actually be a blast to be schooled at a track, something I've already in the back of my mind since considering a Mini. After all, these cars do make you want to do more then just go get milk!

In my mind the LSD would be more desirable as an option even at the expense of something else. Just too expensive to add later. DSC... well if I do spin out and wreck something, I know the 800 number for the insurance company. With what they've made off me over the years I wouldn't be at all bashful calling them either.

I was looking for a bit more of an overview of how you all view each system, which I thank you for.

 

Assuming you don't die, of course.

 

Yeah, generally to avail the participant of the notion that what occurred was somehow unavoidable. A car traveling on a rain soaked road that spins off and hits a tree isn't an act of God, it is the act of someone overdriving the conditions. Somebody t-boning you in a intersection is certainly an accident from your perspective, but sadly DSC is of little use if your the one getting hit. A chief driving instructor of mine was known to often say that the definition of a accident is a meteorite hitting the car, everything else is driver error.

My previous comments weren't directed at comparing LSD to DSC. Only on the value of DSC. Theres certainly nothing wrong with ordering up DSC. What would be wrong would be to then rely on it as your personal keep me out of an 'accident' security blanket. In my experience, I can only think of one moment in the last thirty years of driving where it might have made a difference. That was me simply being an idiot (see rain soaked road reference above). And thats where safety starts, with not being an idiot, not playing Schumacher on the public roads, not trying to impress yourself with just how great a driver you are and finding out the hard way that maybe your not as good as you think you are. All this is by way of commenting that I find the inference by manufacturers that their cars achieves a completely different level of safety with DSC to be at best hype and at worst scare tactics. On a stock suspension Camry, perhaps, but on the MCS, its really rather funny that its part of the sport package.

 

I'd go for the LSD, I've been driving 11 years without any intrusive electronic guardians in my cars with 0 accidents. Though, I will say I appreciate DSC in my car, if I had to pick one, I would go for the LSD. And I would disagree that the LSD is a safety option, it is definitely helpful in snow and other situations with limited traction.

The MINI is so easy to drive hard so DSC really isn't needed imo even though I leave it on when driving and I don't push it on the street anyways. If it had more power and was RWD I think it would be a more important feature.... But I agree with rjmann as it boils down to being sensible while driving (especially in crappy conditions) and you'll be fine.

Just my 2 cents

 

I love you guys. :impatient

 

I say go with the LSD since it is actually a piece of hardware, DSC is "software" and like most software probably is overpriced and overrated...

 

I have just the DSC. The light comes on only every once in a while. But, in snowy conditions, I need to turn it off because at a dead stop when I need to pull out into an intersection, if the wheels slip a little, the power cuts out and the car will dangerously limp through it and then pick up speed. If I leave the DSC off, I can pull out quickly, no problem as I know how to drive in snow.

You cannot turn off the LSD...if you pull out into traffic quickly and the wheels slip a little, does the LSD slow you like the DSC does or does it really help?

 

B.

I went ala cart as well. If you're concern is bad weather driving, I think the ASC will be enough—which all MCSs have.

I had a 1.8T VW with ASC (I believe they are the same systems actually, both are OEM sourced from Bosch?). I haven't taken delivery of my MCS yet. However with the NB, I found that in snowy conditions you would have to pretty much have to aim for trouble in order for something bad to happen.

To me, DSC is more valuable in a RWD application since average drivers have more issues with correcting oversteer than understeer.

If you have any performance oriented intentions for the car; get the LSD and go to school. Car control skills are vastly more valuable than software since you can take what you learn with you. If I had to choose between a highway full of smart drivers or safe cars. . . I'll take the smart drivers every time.

 

All these fancy acronyms ... LSD (I thought that was a Timothy Leary thing) ... ASC, DSC, ABS, MBA (no wait, that is a degree)

Dont anyone remember when cars were just cars? I would bet the number of accidents per population was LOWER without all this fancy stuff. People want technology to run their lives

 

Remember - we are talking about the MCS here.

So even if you don't have DSC you do anyway get ASC+T.

ASC+T is "traction control".
If a driving wheel starts to spin, ASC+T will apply light braking to it so that power is diverted to the other non-spinning wheel. If necessary, ASC+T will also reduce engine power.
*THIS* is the thing that most anti-DSC'ers are actually complaining about. they really should complain about ASC+T, not DSC.

The LSD is a mechanical device which does a similar thing to what ASC+T does, but in a less "power sucking" way - the LSD will limit wheel slip by diverting power to the other wheel, without the need to apply brakes or reduce engine power.


Now DSC is a totally different thing to the above.
DSC monitors the movement of the car using both wheel speed sensors and roll/yaw sensors inside the car - it *knows* what direction the car is going in, and it compares it with the steering angle.
If the car is going the wrong way, DSC will apply brakes in various combinations to attempt to redirect the car to the correct direction.
This is a system you really hope to NEVER NEED because if it activates it is because your car is out of control! You have driven "outside the envelope".



So having said all that ...
If you want to go fast in a straight line and round corners, the LSD will be the best tool to help you do that.
But don't go too fast round corners, because you won't have the DSC to try and save you!

 

Go to a different dealer and get a Mini with both.

There are many of us who bought our Minis out-of-state and have had wonderful purchase experiences. It also isn't a problem once you have to go to the local dealer for service. I say this all this, obviously, as another dealer could have ten Minis with both LSD and DSC....

 

Well, I know that I make mistakes from time to time.

I thought one of the main points of driving instruction is to get people to realize that they are not as good a driver as they think they are.

It baffles me that people suggest that someone not get a safety feature. Even worse, many people use some warped psychology to do so... "only people who suck at driving need a safety device. You don't suck at driving, do you?" :impatient

Some of the reasons for why I think DSC is a great thing might not pertain to others. If you drive in an area that has winter weather, get DSC. Learn how to modulate the throttle and accelerate from a stop in snow with minimal traction control intervention. If you do find that you need to turn traction control off in the snow to get moving, fine. But please turn it back on once you are moving. Remember that if there's minimal traction available when you are trying to get moving, there will also be minimal traction available when you try to stop or turn.

Here's a list of things, besides meteorites, that cause "it wasn't my fault!" accidents, all of which I have seen personally:

wild animals (deer, moose, wild turkeys, fox, ducks / ducklings, skunks, etc)

domestic animals (dogs, cats)

all that winter stuff (snow, snowdrifts, ice, black ice, etc)

wind (probably only in concert with winter conditions, but I have been driving a car at an otherwise safe speed on a snowy road, and had a gust of wind blow my car sideways)

sand on the road

oil on the road

water on the road

other motorists doing crazy things

things falling off of the vehicles in front of you

debris in the road that you don't see until the last second (blind curves, obscured vision because of the car in front of you, nighttime, etc)

If you honestly think you're that good a driver, fine, don't use the various safety systems. I know I'm not that good a driver.

 

I've got mine spec'd close to what your b one has. IMO I didn't feel having the Electro Nanny on board was something I wanted. Heck I would've left off the abs if that was possible along with that ASC. Take the $500 you save & take your significant other to a driving school. Best to know how to drive rather than depend on Electro Nanny to save ones butt. My .02 here & worth every cent you've paid.

I hope I haven't offended any DSC owners with my old school thinking.

I have to drive my car home from the dealer Tuesday. Without DSC, "oh my God" how will I manage??

Chuck

 

After riding two wheels for 20 years I think even somehow the meteorite example would have to be chalked up to my "operator error." It's amazing when you make crashing NOT an option, how much you can do to pay attention and stay away from problems. Even then I crashed hard. 3 of 4 were distinctly my overdriving the road and my abilities, one was another's fault, immediate in-front-of U-Turn, BUT I still should have spotted a cue or slowed down for the weather conditions. Zipping around from here to there is fun, but it also puts me in a lot more "situations", I think my wife is still learning that. SSHHH...Don't tell her I said anything.