The reason I bring this up because of threads that overwhelmingly recomend the MCS over MC when people ask which car they should buy.

If MCS's are so much more prefered why are so many for sale? and priced so low? Why is the ratio of MCS to MC's for-sale higher than the sales ratio.

It seems to me..... every single dime you spend for a MCS over a MC is gone within a year or two. There is no more value in an MCS than a MC. Is this true?

MC
03- https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
03- https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
03- https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
02- https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs

MCS
02 - https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
03 - https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
03- https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
03- https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
03 - https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
03 - https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
03- https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
03 - https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
03 - https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
04 - https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
04 - https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
04 - https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
05 - https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs
05- https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&highlight=mcs

 

I do not know for sure, but perhaps the people who buy MCs are more economy minded and thus hang onto their car longer?

What are the sales numbers, are there many many more MCs sold in the first place?

 

I think too, that the fact that the '05 - '06 MCS models recieved numerous performance updates over the '02-'04 MCS, then there are likely more people interested in updating before the supercharged version goes away. The MC owners haven't experienced as many drivetrain updates throughout the years, and they're not missing out on as much.

The build quality upgrades apply across the board, so I think that is probably equilibrated across MC and MCS owners...

 

Good point, I had forgotten about that factor even though we did the 03 to 05 move ourselves; the revised gearing and other upgrades did inspire quite a few 02-04 MCS owners to change.

 

If you go & build an MCS, then go build an equal MC (excluding hp) the price is not that far apart. The MCS has some standard items that would be considered extras on the MC price (sry but I don't have time to go look them up & give you specific examples)

 

I'm not buying your statistical analysis, planeguy. Unless you know the ownership ratio of NAM, you can't compare the number of MCS vs MC for sale as an indicator (even a weak one) of satisfaction. You'd also have know if they were moving up model years, or moving out. If indeed the majority of NAMmers do have MCS's it would make sense that more would be for sale.
That said, I think the MC is a great car. But I like my S.

 

New car sales (includes cabrios)

2004
MCS = 17,260 (48%)
MC = 18,772 (52%)

2005
MCS = 23,064 (57%)
MC = 17,756 (43%)

Take from that what you will, but obviously a lot of people went for the new MCS.

I think people recommend the MCS because people on NAM are performance-minded, and therefore inclined to choose more power over less power.

Cost-wise, an MC with Sport package and metallic paint is $19,400.

A base MCS, which I think is pretty much the same, but with the supercharger, is $21,900.

That's 13% more money for about 50% more horsepower.

 

Thats not apple to apples.

The Supercharger is a $3000 option basically (yes you get some stiffer springs too) ....the packages and options are equivalent in price

By two years.... a MCS sells for as much as a MC.....Regardless of reason for sale. in the best cases, equal optioned cars a MCS seems to command maybe a $1000 premium. Do you guys not agree?

 

First off I think it’s a personal choice someone buys an MCS or an MC, the same reason to sell it. I know happy people with both and I’ve seen people leave the board disgusted because of their choice.

I personally wanted the extra HP and performance the MCS offers. As for the resale value of either I think is a moot point unless you bought the car only for the reason of resale. I don’t plan on selling mine and could care less if the bottom falls out of the market.

 

Is it is possible that higher mileage and mods have effected the sale price of the MCSs? So, not only are there more on the market due to the people flipping to the newer models, but it is possible that more MCSs are modded and that can reduce the perceived value of the car and thus the resale (not to mention that the upgrades on the newer models may have softened the resale of the previous model years more on the MCS then the MC).

Also, perhaps many of the people selling MCSs may be less concerned about losing a few more bucks in order to get whatever it is they are replacing it with since performance vs economy was the primary motive in the first place.

 

I disagree 100%. You are comparing apples to oranges which is no comparison

For example on an 06:
MC=115hp vs MCS=168hp

MC=sport package ($1400) get 16" wheels & no headlight upgrade vs MCS=sport package ($1400) get 17" wheels & upgrade to xenon headlight

MC=5 speed vs MCS=6 speed (soon both will be 6 speed though)

MC=nada vs MCS=all season traction control (ACS)

MC=standard seats vs MCS=sport seats

MC=standard vs MCS=aluminum foot pedals

Kelley Bluebook private party resale value for an 05 non-S w/sport & premium packages is $21,420 vs 05-S w/same packages is $24,585

Also try to build an 06 MC & be sure to add 17" wheels, Xenon headlights, & sport seats as seprate options (cause that's the only way you can get it) & then compare the price of a close to equal MC (still lower hp) to acomparably equipped MCS & I think you will be shocked to see how close the purchase prices will be

 

I chose the MC because I'm not very performance minded as most of my driving will be to and from work. I figured with the price difference I could get a few more options that I might not have been inclined to with the base price of the S. It all really depends on the driver, and I don't think sales are an indicator of happiness with the car. Many of those people sold to upgrade to a new S.

 

Not true! Newer Coopers have the Getrag 5-speed instead of the crap Midlands 5-speed, which is a huge improvement in reliability. It was by far the #1 reason that I sold my '03 and bought an '05.

 

I thought about this .....but at least the cars on NAM.....MC or MCS....Are both modded frequently

Base prices are $3000 dollars apart. Basically The only diffrence is the SC, springs and seats (2 of those 3 dont add much, if any value) . The content of the pkg's are diffrent but the cost is not.
If you are trying to make both an MC and MCS have the same features, when added individually to both models the price escallates the same. by selecting pkgs with dis-similar features then adding features to the MC to make cars equivalent is not a fair route from ptA to ptB

Well, at some point we will sell, at least 95% of people are not driving a 15yr old single owner auto. Re-sale value is very important. Re-sale is THE reason I will not by a domestic car! Look in the newspaper. a 95 civic sells for twice what a 95 cavalier sells for. It "costs" me a couple thousand dollars to choose american.

If the MCS is such a better car than the MC as judged by the support and recomendaions and prefrences of NAM members then why are MCS's selling for the same price as an MC, even on this board?

 

Planeguy,

Essentially options -- and the MCS is an option (disguised as another "model") -- do not hold their value.

All those options -- and this is true of just about all cars -- only have value to the original buyer of the new car. Used car buyers are less concerned about options, colors, etc., than price and condition.

A new car buyer really pays -- up front and then when he goes to sell the car -- for ordering/buying a car to his specification.

Sincerely,

RockC.

 

It's kinda cool we can talk about the price of our MINIs now on a MSRP level. For years, there was a $3,000 to $6,000 markup on the MCS here in California--putting it at a much higher cost than the MC, not to mention a waiting list that spanned over a year. And I'm not talking about in 2002 when the MINI first was released here, but well into 2003 as well-- my local dealer wanted to charge me $1,800 over sticker for my MC in late 2003.

That was reason enough for me to get a fully loaded Cooper--leather seats, Xenon lights, and DVD Nav, and buy it out of state for around $24K out the door as a similarly spec'd MCS was just too far out of reach.

I think my next MINI will be an MCS, mostly out of fear that my Midlands which died once already won't let me get to 100,000 miles. At 53K miles right now, I'm kinda scared about the future reliability.

Why would I want an MCS? Simple. There is no doubt my MC is quick. Driven aggressively, and pushed to its limit--that is redlining and flooring the gas all the time, downshifting to keep the engine in the powerband, it's tons of fun, but IMO, it's tough wear on the little Cooper, and I can get that same kind of fun on the MCS without having to push so hard. Heck I can even have the AC on or maybe a couple passengers and still be comfortable.

To me its all about the longevity of my Cooper--having the best bang for the buck, and frankly I want it to last a realllllly long time.

 

I'll tell you this, I bought my MCS with the full intention of keeping it for many many many many (well you get the point) miles in a few year I won't give a crap what the resale value is because I won't be looking to sell, also your statistics are very unscientific and as mentioned you don't know the reason of sale for those that are selling and what perecentage do you think are selling an MCS for an MC? Personally I think you are looking for a fight where there isn't one. Just understand that people buy the car that fits there needs, be it availablity, power economy and so on.

 

Agreed. The MC sport package costs the same as the MCS sport package but you get so much more on the MCS sport package. (bargain alert )

That's exactly what I have been trying to tell you. You are comparing apples to oranges & that won't work.

Where can you go on NAM to find out what cars sold for??? I know people advertise them with an "asking" price but I have never seen where the actual price they got is posted. Asking price & selling price are 2 different things.

 

That's why I said not as many drivetrain upgrades... Across the board there have been reliability improvements, and a huge leap for the '05+... but my point was that I don't think that the new tranny dramatically increased the zip of the car (the way the '05 gearing changed the MCS), though it definitely is much better than the Midlands...

 

Planeguy, in the eyes of many folks (Including myself), the MCS is such a "bargain" because those extra $3K over the standard MC get you a lot of car for the money. Allow me to give you a quick refresher:

1)In the MCS, you get reinforced engine mechanicals due to the added power and presence of the Eaton supercharger: Reinforced Valves, Piston Cooling Jets and an Engine Oil Cooler. None of those enhancements are available in the Cooper engine.

2) The MCS comes with the Sports Suspension Plus as standard factory equipment. The SS+ tuning arragement features stiffer from and rear stabilizer bars and stiffer shocks. SS+ is an option on the Cooper.

3) The MCS comes standard with the front Sports bucket seats. Then again, those are optional on the Cooper.

4) The MCS comes with a short gear ratio 6-speed GETRAG manual transmission. Last I checked, the 6-speed manual is unavailable on the regular Cooper. (In Europe, the MINI ONE D Diesel model comes with a slightly different tuned version of the 6-speed manual found in the MCS)

5) The MCS comes standard with ASC+T (All speeds electronic traction control) Last I checked, ASC+T is not available on the Cooper (Unless you live in Canada) and if you want any added electronic "nannies" in the Cooper, you have no choice but to spring for the DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) which is a $500 standalone option or part of the Cooper's Sport Package.

6) In the MCS you'll get all the Cooper S world renowned "cosmetics".. Hood scoop, chromed fuel filler door, restyled side black plastic slab trim, sport bumpers, etc. Also you get the rear mounted sport spoiler which is not even available in the Cooper from the factory.

7) In the MCS you get a center mounted dual pipe sport exhaust with specially calibrated "sounds". Last I checked, this exhaust is not available from stock in the Cooper

8) In the MCS you get the 16" R84 V-spoke wheels and Dunlop SP5000 runflat tires, again standard from the factory. Last I checked, the Cooper comes with 15" radial Continental tires with the 7-hollies wheels. if you want to upgrade to the R83 5-star wheels and runflats, you have to pay an extra $500 or get the Cooper's Sport Package.

9) The Cooper S gives you right out of the box, 53 horsepower more than the normally aspirated Cooper and 51 pounds feet of engine torque more than the standard Cooper engine. Of course the added power completely transforms the car in its driving demeanor and performance dynamics.

So, would you agree with me that you get a lot of "upgrades" for a mere $3K added premium over the price of a standard 5-speed 115HP hardtop MINI Cooper? I would tend to say yes to that statement.

Let me put it to you this way. If you were to make an attempt to add each and every single Cooper S component into a regular Cooper, do you think you would be able to fully upgrade the car and approach Cooper S performance levels for only $3K??? Of course you wouldn't. It would probably cost you more than $10-$15K perhaps even more to completely transform that Cooper 5-speed into a full fledged Cooper S. Do you have any idea how much it is the 6-speed manual transmission if you were to buy it from the parts counter? $4K-$5K just for the transmission!!

Here is another comparison. If you add the JCW package (Either from factory or as a dealer installed option on older MCS) to your 168HP Cooper S, for $6500 your power output will go up 42 horsepower but notice here that you have to pay more than nearly double the amount of money to get similar power gains when comparing going from a MC to MCS (Bone stock to Bone stock) and you don't even get 1/3 of all the equipment those initial $3000 get you right out of the box when you opt for the MCS over the MC.

So, when you analyse the cost factor of each model and compare each car bone-stock-to-bone-stock you'll soon understand why the MCS has already surpassed the Cooper in production numbers. Right now, Oxford manufactures more Cooper S than Coopers which was not the case 2 or 3 years ago.

I hope this clarifies in your mind why the MCS is such an excellent value, not matter how you cut it and slice it. The Cooper is a great car (I have one as well), but the MCS is the "Real" value in the model range. It is the complete package if you will.

As you can see my friend, the MCS is not just about a "Supercharger", a couple of "Sports seats" and stiffer "Shocks". It is much more than that (Please quit the simplistic view of the MCS).

Interesting tid bit: Nearly 50% of all MINIs currently registered in Australia are Cooper S models. By the way, Australia is currently the biggest world market for the Cooper S.

 

Incorrect, RockC. Here is why: The model that has more horsepower and factory upgrades (Talking about standard equipment not options packages) is the car that in the end will be more desirable in the used car market. If you don't believe me, the the used values of such collector American muscle cars as the Camaro SS, Chevelle SS, Pontiac GTO Judge, Dodge Challenger, etc. The model that has the more HP is the one that commands the highest prices. Some of the vintage cars I mentioned today commend six figure prices in the collectors market.

The MCS is not "an option" over the MC. It is a separate model with abundant mechanical enhacements which make it essentially a different car in both driving demeanor and market audience.

 

Your looking through a microscope at a large population mass that probably doesn't have the demographics of NAM.

First, go here and look at ALL sales figures for US bought MINIs. http://www.gbmini.net/sales.shtml Despite more 05 MCS sales, overall MC sales are significantly higher

Second, most cars trying to sell in this microscope are modded. They will not get the real price they are hoping for.

Third, this is an enthusiast's board. If you ask an enthusiast if they prefer POWER to high mileage, what would you expect the answer to be??? ... This is a big reason

Fourth, your numbers from this microscopic view mean nothing since they are taken from potential sales under the same microscope ... they dont represen the true US picture

Fifth, whew ... where you look up prices makes a HUGE difference

While KBB is popular, many banks, financial institutes use NADA. for a 2004, 25K miles, stripped, here are the numbers ... look at the huge disparties between guides

trade retail
15405 17975 MC KBB
17275 20950 MC NADA

17480 20165 MCS KBB
20075 25575 MCS NADA

Adding options doesnt get you much. Adding mileage makes a huge difference (both ways)

It would appear your correct that your paying $3K for the SC and that is the only thing that matters! But, the MCS is a bargain...

 

The only reason I could think that there are more MCS's for sale right now is the same reason I sold mine a few months back. I love the Supercharger and wanted to get one of the last available MINI's with it. In other words. I don't care of the new turbo coming out and want to make sure I have a Supercharged MINI that will last me for a while. Maybe others feel the same. Some may not and would prefer the turbo.

That said. I believe I saw on motoringfile that the 07 MC, with the new engine, will have more torque. So maybe you'll start seeing more MC's come up for sale by those wanting more torque when the 07's are released. If in fact it does produce more torque than the current MC.

Both cars are great but when asking why one model seems to be for sale more than the other model. Only the person having their MINI for sale can answer that question. The rest of us can just guess.

BTW, on the resale of the MCS. My 03 which I owned for 27 months with 44,000 miles and no packages, only fogs and a sunroof, sold for just over $18,000. So if you go into buying a car, it doesn't make sense to get a lot of options. It may sell quicker but in the end you don't get as much out of it.

KBB listed my car as $18,160 which it did sell very close to. Had I opted for the $1200 leather, premium wheels(guessing 17" S-lites), HK system and NAV. After the extra cost of that, I may have sold it quicker but the KBB on a MCS equipped with those options shows a price of $19,490. Those options alone would have ran me more than the $1,330 difference in estimated resale.

But, I didn't get this car for resale. I got it for me. I had no plans on selling my 03 MCS until I heard about the new turbo of the 07's.

 

i'm still failing to see any point in this thread . Who gives a rats **** ... enjoy your darn car why don't you.

 

Hey - some people enjoy driving their MINIs, other people enjoy calculating their MINIs' resale value!