I couldn't agree with you more. These well-heeled consumers are what drove the 2002-2006 generation of MINI sales at MSRP+. It was the hot thing in town. Whatever it was that produced the "I gotta have that..." sentiment, it was what drove the sales success for MINI and got the attention of a number of competitors. 2007 and beyond are not going to be easy pickings for MINI/BMW.

 

I think you are referring to the MCS with John Cooper Works GP kit. The non-GP JCW kit has been available with no limits on what has been sold in the U.S. I tend to doubt that you will see a JCW GP kit in 2007, as the JCW GP kit was something of an end of model run production (higher engine output, lighter weight, different equipment, etc.).

And, even if MINI were to offer the JCW GP kit on an ongoing basis on the 2007+ models, I personally think that more will be needed in the way of special sauce to fight off the pending competition. AWD along the lines of X-drive and a 6-speed SMG-II along with a turbo-charged engine producing 250 hp and ft/lbs. and gas mileage in the 25 city and 35 highway (on 91 octane pisswater) for around 30 large would get me to trade my 2005 MCSa. I might even do the deal at a price point of 35 large.

 

I think what has always driven the MINI's sales is the low production numbers vs. the high demand.

And I still think it's a great deal for the price, all the way up to fully-optioned.

Many of the early buyers in 2002 (myself included) remembered the original Minis and were amazed and thrilled to see BMW bringing out the new MINI, with all its fantastic engineering and safety features.

It may be that there are more folks in SoCal now who see a Cooper on a lot for $21K and think it's a cute car to buy than when it was the earlier car nuts snapping them up, but I still think the MINI is a car for true car-lovers who love to drive.

MINI has a special vibe that the competitors just don't have, one which is impossible for other car-makers to duplicate or copy.

BTW, I am in the middle of a long roadtrip and was shocked to see that fuel prices are basically the same everywhere now, as in California! ACK! :impatient

 

I have to preface these remarks by saying that I drove a 1982 Honda Civic DX for 10 years and 200K+ miles, and loved every minute of it.

All of the good points of that car are found in the MINI. All of the bad points don't exist in the MINI.

If I had to spend my evil-won dollars on something else, I'd buy a C6 Corvette (you really have to drive one to appreciate it--I mean, really DRIVE, not cruise for babes, and you WILL go to jail), a Subaru WRX STI (and you have to take it off-road. Now. And eat a lot of rice), or a Lotus Elise (nirvana! but can I spend the rest of my life in this thing? I'm 6'2"!). Other than those more expensive three, there's not much else out there for the likes of us (the EVO is becoming a secretary/tuner boy platform--ask my secretary, who is a tuner girl).

I won't even touch a VW, because I can't afford 10 trips to the dealer each year for fix ups.

One word seperates any MINI from all of these:

Class.

 

Fair enough about the high demand. But what caused the high demand? And, more importantly for 2007+ production, what will sustain the high demand; especially with competitive offerings to be available in 2007.

But will the buyers that are required to sustain the MSRP+ pricing model going forward agree with you when they have alternatives available to them that were not in place during 2002 - 2006?

And that was part of what sustained the MSRP+ price model for 5 years, which in the automotive business, is an incredible accomplishment.

 

All of my comments in my prior post led to a complete position which answered your questions, camini. And justbob has it just right: CLASS.

 

Hmmm. Well I guess we will see if MINI/BMW can repeat their execution of CLASS going forward. (And by extension, whether that execution of CLASS will be enough to distinguish the MINI from its competitors.) Maybe I am too linear, but I like to see something more tangible. But then again, that is why I am not in the marketing business.

 

I don't know where you're getting those numbers, but the US consumes 25 million barrels per day of crude while the world consumes 85 million barrels per day. While that is alot, also keep in mind, what percentage of the world GDP, the US contributes.

[edit] wow, I didn't realize I posted so late.

 

That is a very good point. And for those that would advocate punitive measures to get the U.S. consumption of energy lower, please consider what reduced energy consumption would mean to GDP output reduction. Do we want a global recession?

 

Us per capita energy usage is the largest in the world. While the energy consuption per unit of gdp has been getting better and better, we also subsidize our standard of living by printing t-bills to cover the trade deficit. Think what would happen if other nations started selling them, instead of buying them. Our society is a glutton of consumption, saves little or nothing, and we all sit around and say how good that is?

Back on topic. If Mini doesn't do something, then they will just have "class" to sell, as other cars will eclipse more and more of what makes the Mini special.

And about enthusiasm for the brand, heck, there's even an AMC Pacer club! People will be enthusiastic about what they buy..... But for me, the appeal was for performance in a car that was also appealing. Without the performance, I wouldn't have been a customer. And I'm sure that I'm not the only one.

And a fully optioned Mini at $40k plus is just not tenable to me, or many that already bought the cars..... A $40k Mini that is just average in performance..... Is just an expensive, cute car!

Matt

 

Why did you get a MINI, caminifan? Just curious....

 

That was my point in asking what defined class earlier in the thread. I may be over-simplifying things, but what MINI had exclusively for the 2002 - 2006 timeframe is no longer going to be the exclusive province of MINI for 2007+

Same for me.

 

People will be enthusiastic if their car performs! My comments about the engineering should have included an additional comment that the MINI's handling is what sets it apart from other cars. Add that to the fact that, yes, it is "cute," that there is such a terrific community sharing info and camaderie, and you have a very appealing package with a very successful car.

 

I actually like this topic since I actually know something about it!!

Here's something interesting though. While the statistics have shown that energy consumption per GDP has gotten better, it's actually a fallacy or at least not to the extent that the statistics purport the improvement to be. If you actually think about it and you actually hint at it, the US trade deficit has gotten larger and larger since the second oil embargo, meaning that we import more of our products. The statistics that show an improving energy consumption per GDP does not account for the amount of energy consumed in other countries to produce the products that we use. Just an itneresting fact.

I am by no means rationalizing the gross wastefulness of the U.S. I was just presenting a counterpoint. People should really be thankful to live in the U.S. Relatively cheap gas. We moan and moan about our increases, but out European brethren are $2-$3 per gallon more than we are. We don't have to pay to throw away trash. In some Asian countries, you have to buy state trash bags or else the trash men won't take your trash.

 

It was a street legal gokart that did not require me to work a clutch (I have tendonitis in my left knee). The ride and handling performance were better than other cars in its price range. The option to upgrade the power with a factory package (JCW). (Although, in retrospect, the JCW potential is yet to be realized for the MCSa....) There was an element of BMW massaging of the MINI brand. But competitors are on the horizon that claim to have the same or better than what the MCSa is projected to have to offer for 2007. I don't know that I would make the same decision in say, 2008 as I made in 2005.

 

I got the info from this site. Check it out, there's a lot of interesting stuff.
Whatever the percentages are, I don't see them as sustainable or justifiable, it's been nice but it's about over.

http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html

 

A couple of thoughts

1) I think the Mini has as much charisma/charm as it does because of the amazing design of Frank Stephenson (sp?) He did an amazing job of capturing the charm of the "old" car and bringing it up to "modern" standards...... so much so that he was hired away by Ferrari to do the same.... update the looks without alienating the customer base..... (if he is still there, i don't know) The car has lines and a look that draws from a very classic designs.....

2) all this talk about gas prices, T bills etc...... do you know that the Chinese buy up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bonds and much of our debt is held by them and the Japanese..... at some point 'we will not be able to manipulate interest rates to spur the economy because we will no longer have control.... we are becoming a "renter" nation'..... (China Inc - Ted C. Fishman)

3) The world has a way of correcting itself...... more and more housing is being built intown Atlanta.....and it is becoming the hip place to live.....our country's sprawl was/is made possible by cheap gas..... no cheap gas.... no sprawl

4) someone said look for the "cranes" to see where the wealth is...... most of the building cranes in the world are in the Pacific Rim and while the financing of some of this building can be debated..... you get the idea.....now why is that?

5) I think Minis are cool ..... totally objective

 

I bought mine 99% because of the way it looks. The excellent handling and decent gas mileage were just "extra" benefits. It wasn't, however, because I had to have the latest fad.

I wanted it bad enough to drive 225 miles to the nearest dealer.

 

That could be it...saw it on the Regis and Kelly show and everyone made a big deal out of it like it was going blow the competition away....oh well. Mick

 

Having driven some high hp FWD cars, I'd rather not see 250-300 hp in a production Mini. Torque steer with high hp in a FWD car is hard to get rid of, and I'd much rather have RWD for a higher hp car. I'd rather see BMW/Mini keep the weight down for a good hp/weight ratio. Most of the cars mentioned as giving the MCS serious competition are at or well over 3000 lbs.

-Keith

 

For comment #2, as well as other related comments in this thread, the assumption seems to be that this is deliberate by the US. It is not. Both Japan and China (especially China) engage in currency manipulation to keep their imports cheap to the US. They can keep exporting, and keep their workers happy, and we keep importing, and get cheap goods, and the Chinese and Japanese government continue to buy US Treasuries to keep their currencies from appreciating. If the yuan had appreciated as much as it should have in the last few years, Chinese goods would be more expensive, we'd import less and export more, and the trade deficit would look much better. It is sustainable as long as those governments want it to be sustained.

For comments 1 and 3, I totally agree. It always cracks me up when I see people buying efficient cars, but commuting 50 - 100 miles. High gas prices drive people to make more rational usage decisions.

 

I bought my MCS based on the complex and highly subjective critera of 'smiles per gallon.' I can't begin to produce an actual formula for calculating it, but the factors involved include purchase cost, features, styling, and gas milage.

So, if I can find another car that produces more smiles per gallon (has equal or more weight in these areas) I would consider it. I think other manufacturers have started to understand this 'fun to drive' aspect, and are producing cars that are competitive in this area. To remain competitive, MINI has to hold their price, maintain their styling advantage, and improve in the areas of gas milage and features (more HP, better handling, and equal or better gas milage).

Seems like a 250HP, AWD, 30-35MPG MCS, at about the current price would be doable, and keep them ahead of the pack. (Yes, AWD would add costs, but it looks like they're going to be saving some $ on the new engine.)

My $.02

 

The current guess is that the yuan is 40% undervalued and the Chinese hold in the neighborhood of $500 billion of our currency...not investment but rather liquid currency..... give or take a few hundred billion

We stll drive very cool "mps" or "gps" cars

 

This old 1970's Mini ad should be plastered in the walls at MINI's Oxford plant:

 

A couple of points: 1. Torque steer is predominantly a function of uneven driveshaft length. In a previous lifetime, I had a 1986 VW GTI. That car produced 108 hp and had torque steer like you wouldn't believe - punch the go pedal while turning and you had a fight on your hands with the steering wheel (even with power assisted steering). The MINI has addressed torque steer by fitting an intermediate shaft that runs from the transmission to the right driveshaft. 2. There is a debate about what hp & ft/lbs. level results in diminishing returns in a FWD car. The general consensus is somewhere around 250 - 300 hp & ft/lbs.. In an effort to avoid that tar pit, I proposed AWD along the lines of the X-drive. Now for me, if MINI were to release a car that had the same gokart-like handling with engine output in the 250+ hp & ft/lbs. range (I would take either s/c or t/c), X-drive AWD, SMG II, with weight around 2,800 lbs. and 25 city and 35 hwy mpg at a price point of around $30K, that would get me to trade my current MCSa. MINI/BMW, are you listening????