Keith when you're in Phoenix, look me up. I'll let ya drive my 300hp MCS which has no noticable torque steer whatsoever.

 

While a lot of people want more to make the MINI keep up with everyone else, I want less.

No AWD and power increases. No size increases. I want lighter and simpler. The world has enough big horsepower all wheel drive "compact" cars. We need more things like the MINI is now, and the Elise, Miata, etc.

 

Heck forget the caliber, wait untill Chrysler releases its MINI clone, the Hornet.

 

He's right. The Chinese have more interest in keeping the 1+ billion people happy than to let their currency appreciate. The Japanese need a market considering their domestic consumption is horrible. If the Japanese and Chinese stop buying our bonds, you can bet on a lot of people over in Europe and here in the US getting more jobs.

On topic though, I see very little area for room for improvement in the hot hatch area. All the FWD cars are pretty much going to be maxed out at around 210hp, as the new MINI should have gone.

Let's go over the MINI's selling points.
1) Uniqueness - I find this harder and harder for MINI to maintain as time progresses. It will have to contend internatal forces (ie - the new MINI) and external forces that competitors create of bring over from other parts of the world. The MINI will now longer be the small car of the crowd. Honda is already bringing over the Fit and Toyota is bringing over the Yaris.
2) Community - I know this is a bit weird, but everytime another MINI driver waves to me, I get a huge smile on my face. My friend even observed this wierd ritual once and said that he wanted a MINI. That said, as another thread has stated, a lot of new owners don't perpetuate this feel-good attitude of MINI - ness.
3) Performance - Power, Weight, Handling - As has been said, I'm part of the camp that power should have been increased. However, that only goes so far since the MINI is FWD and can't put down 500 horses like an M5 can. The MINI needs to get lighter and thus needs to hire some people from Mazda to help it with this endeavor. With power held constant, this is the only area for improvement. Hopefully, handling will always remain the MINI's forte and even if it is down on power, people will modify it just to get the handling. Main point here is that MINI needs to lighten up.
4) Mileage - This only serves as a selling point until the first fill-up. Then you either get pissed or laugh at the eccentricities of the MINI.

 

Agreed.

Along those lines, I'd actually like the MINI get SMALLER. The MINI isn't very mini. I'd like to see it about 12-18" shorter in length, about 6-8" narrower, and about 4 shorter in height.

 

There are other downsides to huge amounts of power in FWD cars besides torque steer, that was just one example. I think its perfectly fine if people want to push the boundaries of how much hp a FWD car can handle, however having driven 250-300 hp FWD cars and 300-500 hp RWD cars, I definitely prefer RWD where huge amounts of power are concerned. Asking the front wheels to do everything and just dragging the rear wheels along for the ride is only good up to a certain point IMO.

The new MC and MCS are supposed to be lighter than the 2002-06 models, but by how much, who knows? I'd love to see a 2500 lb 200 hp 2007 MCS and maybe 230-240 hp for the JCW, but leave the 250+ HP monsters for the aftermarket to create.

-Keith

 

Now for me, if MINI were to release a car that had the same gokart-like handling with engine output in the 250+ hp & ft/lbs. range (I would take either s/c or t/c), X-drive AWD, SMG II, with weight around 2,800 lbs. and 25 city and 35 hwy mpg at a price point of around $30K, that would get me to trade my current MCSa. MINI/BMW, are you listening????[/quote]

hard to argue with this...I'll take one....group buy

 

Get a grip? I was commenting on the lack of Media coverage although I notice today they "just" started talking about it. The US masses EXPECT low gas prices. It "can" get better. Open up the Alaskan Oil Fields. Yeah, PI, but so what. The goverment has set new CAFE standards for SUVs ... a step in the right direction that will not stop the really low mileage SUVs from being sold because the will be made up for by the high-mileage SUVs built on car chassis (e.g., Hondas).

BTW, the Saturn sky at $25K will be heavy competition where ppl will buy a Saturn vice a Pontiac.

 

My Turn.... (S Model)

I'd like to see a little less weight.. .closer to 2500 lbs.. Forget the AWD.. it's too heavy. Just make it rear wheel drive with an LSD standard. This will allow you to deliver the power with the rears and the front wheels do nothing but steer. (ie: Miata).

Shorter?..Smaller?.. maybe. I just try to imagine myself in a late 60's mini and getting hit broadside by another car.. you're done. A little room for side impact beams and airbags is a good thing.

Power?.. the standard S should be at 190+.. with the lower weight, 2500 lbs, it should be more lively. The JCW should be in the 230+ range, remember, this is still a production car that people beat on and they have to Warranty. Variable Valve Timing should be standard on every somewhat-performance car, and it should be on the new MC.. BMW already has Vanos! This will allow for a more efficient engine. Keep the supercharger for low end torque.. but go with a more efficient roots type.

Styling?.. don't change [Bangle] it much.. it's very unique like it is.. maybe lower the roofline a tad for a more agressive look.. keep the scoop and flared wheel arches. Interior is good.. I like the '07 design.. it's cleaned up. The JCW should come with Recaro's damnit!!!

Above the JCW?.. there should be a "special order" GP-type car. This should have closer to 250 hp with less weight, an uncomfortable-for-the-street type suspension. This car would still be street legal but without the majority of the creature comforts, including sound deadening... and did I mention Recaro's?? There's enough people that have race-spec Mini's that this shouldn't have to be done purely from aftermarket parts.. BMW Could hold Factory Mini Spec race events. Also.. don't require a first-born and a limb-of-their-choice to pay for it. It's got less crap on it.. price it accordingly.

If all this could be done to the standard S and still be at today's prices?.. where do I sign up..

 

Just wanted to chime in on the gas debate. It's not a shortage of oil that's raising prices. It's a shortage of finished petroleum production. Last refinery that was built in the US was over 30 years ago. Those plants are at over 100% production and they can't even come close to producing enough gas. Given growth rate of consumption and it keeps getting worse.

Build another three to five plants (that takes roughly 5 to 10 years per plant) and you'll start to see an ease on prices. Don't forget with tightening regulations to produce cleaner gas (i.e. upcoming Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel this summer), not enough plants and you'll see gas prices go even higher. Throw in distribution problems of getting more gas to the pump (build more pipelines and gas trucks)... I don't know what the solution is but I do know that supply and demand are the basics. We don't have enough finished petroleum production capacity. NIMBY drums are everywhere.

As to the main thread - MCS 06 Cabrio with all three packages and mods on top. I have always said that they should have made a M style MINI. Next car is going to be an Exige or Elise. Modded of course! Both MINI and those Lotus cars are going to be classics & awesome performers. I'll never buy 'Merican cars again regardless of what anyone says. Nothing but junk and never have been anything more than pure rip offs. Just my .02

 

For those wishing for even more power in a FWD car, it might not have much torque steer, but it does have something else -- wheelspin. On our test drive, I kept getting bad wheelspin, which didn't make sense to me at first, given that the test car has LSD. It finally clicked that LSD doesn't help if both wheels are spinning. AWD would definitely help, but AWD adds weight and takes up extra space. I would love to see a RWD MINI, but that's not gonna happen (at least as long as it's owned by BMW), mainly because it would compete too much with the 1 series.

Overall, I think it's certainly possible to keep MINI in high demand over time, as long as you keep making it better. Most people would think BMW has done a great job of that with the 3 series, so no reason they can't do the same with MINI.

 

That's only partially true. If it was just a refinery capacity shortage, there's no reason for the price of brent/crude to go up significantly. As it stands, brent/crude are about to breach the $70/bbl. I think this belief of refinery capacity shortage was perpetuated by OPEC as a scapegoat, understandable, considering the social political climate that we live in today. That said, there is very little spare capacity to produce crude from the ground, OPEC is pumping as fast as it can and there hasn't been a major oil discovery in the last 30 years or so.

On the topic of refinery capacity though, the U.S. is going to screw itself. As Gr8force mentioned, there's very few refineries being built in the U.S. Most refineries being built at the moment are in Saudi Arabia and in a decade or two, they will entirely control the flow of oil in the world.

The U.S. population really needs to get over the fact that they want the best of everything. You can't have cheap oil unless you're willing to give up some things like having a nuclear reactor built in your backyard or a refinery or two next to the school. All I have to say is this, no nuclear reactors have been built in the US since the '70s.

That being said, an easy way to forget about the oil prices is to hedge yourself. Buy some oil stocks, not large integrated oil companies (e.g. Shell, Chevron) since linear regressions have shown that their stock prices aren't very correlated to the price of oil. You would want exploration companies and the such or even oil tanker shipping companies.

 

I don't think MINI should compete but remain the niche car that it is. You can buy a "rice rocket" for half the price of a Harley and have twice the performance. A Timex watch is 1/100 th the cost of a Rolex and tells better time. IMO if MINI tries to compete with other cars with regard to HP, price, design or computer goodies we will lose the car that we all cherish.

 

GD it why do the Brits get the BMW 1 and we don't 6 cyl RWD now ...... I'm pissed ... the Mini competes with the One in UK why not here? F it

 

I am also against more power, AWD and a bigger car. Power is not a prerequisite for fun. Although it sure can help

I currently don't own a MINI or any vehicle (ride a bike) but if I had to buy a car right now, fuel efficiency would be one of the main criteria.

It would be nice to see a MINI with better fuel ecomony (Hydrogen combustion?), SMG transmission and much lighter. How many hundreds of pounds could be saved with an aluminum frame and thermoplastic or carbon fibre body panels? A car like this would absolutely destroy any competition.

Anyways, the key is to reduce the weight of the car. You get benefits in fuel efficiency and performance. MINI to me, should be under 2000 lb.

BTW, fuel prices need to go up more!

Oh yeah, I would also love an Elise with Hydrogen combustion

 

If they can fit a perpetual motion machine powered by cold fusion in the boot, I'll buy one, too!

 

Agree 100%. Next hurricane comes around and peope whining about no power. Electric grid way out of date. We need fusion reactors (some day). UNFORTUNATELY, this is all political ... so better not discussed here.

 

I agree - the current-model engine is very basic. If that keeps the cost down, I'm all for it. Given the price increases MINI has seen, I think it's reasonable to expect a more advanced engine. I believe the 07 is going to an aluminum block - not sure if variable valve timing is included. Are you saying it is, or that it should be?

As to all the AWD and RWD comments we're seeing on this thread, I think it's safe to say that MINI isn't going to go that direction. RWD would be cool, and the 1 Series may even provide a possible platform to create such a MINI, but I don't think it would be in BMW's best interest to compete with itself.

As for AWD - just look at the current GTI with 200hp and FWD compared to the R32 with 250hp and the weight of AWD. The last issue of Car and Driver had a test of the R32, and they liked it as a bargain grand tourer, but overall preferred the lighter GTI. I think you need more like 300hp to offset the weight (and I assume drivetrain-related power loss) of AWD and make the car feel more like a sports car (witness the STI and Evo).

 

1) Hydrogen combustion is way way off in the future because: 1. the technology is nowhere near complete and 2. how long do you think it will take to replace all the gas stations in the US with hydrogen filling stations?

2) It'd be great for the MINI to become lighter, but some people around here care about safety, obviously this doesn't include you as much since you ride, but some people here do care. Have you ever seen an Elise in a car crash? As to the aluminum frame and carbon fiber panels, I think you've just been reading the specs of too many supercars. It would: a. make the car extremely expensive and b. make the car even more expensive to repair. Unfortunately, the MINI is a swiss army knife and many different things to many different people.

That said, I don't see the everyday MINI breaking 2500lbs in the future. People will want more safety or more power than a lighter car.

 

I retired from a nuclear power plant five years ago. I was a Reactor Operator and an instructor.

As far as I'm concerned the only hope for energy independance in the future is greater use of nuclear power.

It will happen, the only question is how bad do things have to get before we start building new plants? It takes about 8-10 years to build and place a new plant in operation. The plant I worked at is located about five miles from my house....no problem.

 

So when/how does the issue of nuclear power become relevent to what MINI must do to remain competitive in the MINI's market segment?

 

hahaha... that's the fugliest car EVER!

 

AWD systems have been on a diet of late. Haldex (the AWD on the Audi TT, current generation Volvo AWD cars, and if memory serves, the VW R32) weighs in at around 200 lbs. The BMW X-drive is in the same territory. Drivetrain-related power loss with Haldex and current gen X-drive is not excessive (~2-3%) and could be offset by increased engine output and avoided weight increases. Use high strength steel for body/chassis and you could potentially add AWD with no weight penalty. Bump the hp & ft/lbs up to 250 territory and with everything else (in particular, ride, handling and braking) comparable to today's car with improvements in engine technology (direct injection, etc.) getting to 25 mpg city and 35 mpg highway, I think MINI would have a world beater. Call it class or what have you, but I believe that such an offering at a price point of 30 large would trigger an emotional reaction similar to what the current gen. MINI triggerd back in 2002.

 

Wait, I didn't feel ripped off when I bought my MINI. That's a bargain compared to the JCW package. If we go along with current MINI pricing, what you just described would probably be in the $40k.

 

At 40 large, you would likely hear grumbling. But then again, it is kind of a BMW, so you get to pay kind of BMW pricing....

However, if such a combination was offered at a price point of 30 large (for a base model), wouldn't that get everyone all fired up? - better than R32 performance for R32 pricing....