What's the prevailing wisdom regarding oil change intervals? I see the dealer and the manual recommend 10K before the first change. I know that over at the BMW forums they make a lot about BMW selling the owner on "long fill" (sometimes Lifetime fill) fluids in order to reduce their cost to replace them during the Free Maintenance period. The theory is that "long fill" is good for BMW and bad for the cars...

What's the thought with Minis?

Did most of you wait 10K for the first oil change?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Check the search, many threads and much debate, also some owners with mucho mileage at the high change intervals with no problems. I'm going 10k on the first for break-in, then every 5, synth.

 

Are you talking KM or Mi?? I assume that K means KM... wait, but it could also mean 1,000.... (I am Canadian and on metric) Well I am doing a full castrol SYN every 10,000KM. regular starts at 25,000KM. Even the service manager where I bought it said to at least half it.

and yes, the 25,000KM will get you through the Warranty period, but not sure about the life of the vehicle.

I am in the industry, and the debate is, the oil can probably last 25,000KM, but can the filter collect all of the deposits over that life, and filter properly.

Here is an article in a LUBE newsletter. LONG ARTICLE

High-Mileage Volvo Celebrates 40th Birthday

Sometime this month or early next, likely along a stretch of highway lined with vibrant fall foliage, a cherry red 1967 Volvo P1800S will reach a remarkable milestone. That’s when Irv Gordon’s prized possession will reach the 2.5 million-mile mark.

Yes, you read that right. Two and a half million miles. And every single one of them with Gordon behind the wheel. (In case you’re wondering, that works out to an average of 62,500 miles per year, or 171 miles every day for 365 days.)

According to the “Guiness Book of World Records,” in the 100-plus year history of the automobile no other non-commercial car-and-driver combination has ever logged so many miles together.
Gordon first purchased his P1800S in June 1966, the same month the Beatles were completing their “Revolver” album, Mike Tyson was born in Brooklyn and Los Angeles Dodger Sandy Koufax was halfway through pitching his final and finest season. We profiled Gordon’s vehicle in the March 2002 issue of National Oil & Lube News, in an article on million-mile vehicles.

Perhaps even more amazing than the odometer reading on Gordon’s car is the fact that 40 years after he first drove it off the lot, the P1800 is all original: same engine (though it was rebuilt at 675,000 miles), same transmission, same axles. Even the same radio. Gordon’s secret?

“Changing your oil every 3,000 miles is the best insurance policy for your car,” Gordon said, adding that he has had his car serviced in the same auto care facility for the last 25 years. “If there is any one maintenance activity that will extend the life of your car’s engine, this is it.”

He also said that using one brand of oil is important.

“Surprises are nice at birthday parties, but you don’t want them under your car’s hood. Using one brand of oil assures uniform quality and no surprises,” said Gordon, adding that he has used only one brand of motor oil since purchasing his car new.

Through it all, he said, the car has never failed to start. “Not even on the coldest of mornings,” he said.
Gordon purchased the car new after another new purchase broke down on his drive home from the dealership. In retrospect, he made a wise purchase.

“It was far and away the best $4,150 I’ve ever spent,” said Gordon, a Long Island native and resident.
Gordon, who today is a 64-year-old retired science teacher, began racking up the miles almost immediately. He drove the car for the same reasons most people do: to drive back and forth to work (a 125-mile daily round-trip to his job), for fun and for everyday activities. His long commute and his passion for driving caused him to log his first 250,000 miles in less than five years. The engine never failed and the car never required extensive repairs. Gordon lived two blocks from the ocean and drove through salt and snow each winter, but the body never rusted. So he kept driving his car.

Gordon hit 500,000 miles in the late ’70s. He celebrated his one-millionth mile in 1987, driving a loop around the Tavern on the Green in New York’s Central Park. He retired nine years later and took a part-time job for five years as a quality control technician and service writer at a Volvo dealership. With more time on his hands, he made driving his pastime.

In March 2002 at a star-studded celebration fitting for New York, he turned his 2 millionth mile driving through Times Square.

“If you would have told me 40 years ago I’d still be driving this beautiful car, and that I would have driven these many miles, I would have told you ‘Good,’” Gordon said. “For one thing, the car just felt right from the beginning. And, what a beautiful country this is; I’m so glad I’ve had the time and opportunity to take so much of it in.”
Gordon marked his car’s 40th birthday doing pretty much what he’s done with the car every day the past 40 years.
“I drove down to my favorite coffee shop, had a decaf and chatted with my neighbors,” he said.
Two and a half million miles is a lot of tanks of gas. In fact, in Gordon’s car, it’s 8,000 tanks of gas, according to his estimates. Gordon has also had nearly 850 oil changes, replaced 500 spark plugs and gone through approximately 100 tires.

According to Gordon, the key to it all has been the regular oil changes.
“Considering the relatively low cost of oil and filters, this is the cheapest insurance policy your car will ever have,” he said.

As for his future plans?

“I’ll keep on driving,” Gordon said, “but whether I drive three million miles is more up to me than it is the car. The car’s parts may be able to take it, but I’m not so sure about my own.”

 

Well what is your impression of BMW's long term reliability?.......Is it closer to KIA or Toyota (by the way I believe honda's interval is the same for thier new cars)
Do you trust engineers or the shade tree mechanics?......

Many tests have done by third parties (the results can be found by using that SEARCH button) and all show that the oil's lubricating qualities remain in good shape at 10,000 miles

The way I see it is that in the age of toyota and honda beating the crap out of thier competitors on long term reliability and product confidence driving sales up up up.....no manufacturer can afford to cut corners to save a dollar....epecially a premium brand like BMW.

So who do you trust, those who know your car best and have a vested intrest in a long lasting product or the oil companies who stand to make a profit by frequent unnessacary oil changes

 

Changed my break-in oil at 3,500, and am changing at about every 7,500-10K or so. Since i only do this once a year my d'ship oil changes are essentially free.

 

Trust is tricky: I do trust BMW (Mini) to build a fine car. I also trust them to save a buck when they can. Anyone who believes that they won't is not living on this planet. I am sure that BMW can "prove" that they long fill stuff is fine for most drivers. The issue for me is long term: I keep cars a long, long time whereas most BMW drivers really don't (there are SO many BMW leases out there).

The reason that I asked the members of the forum is cuz they have invested in their cars. Their observations may be more relevant than those from a company that has a vested interest to change as few fluids as possible when they're paying for it. Thanks to all...

 

I change my oil myself every 2,500 miles with Mobil 1. When the "free oil changes" come due, I take it in and get them. I admit that I'm pretty gung-ho about changing my oil, but there are plenty of people who are equally gung-ho about NOT changing oil until it racks up 10-15,000 miles. Which car would YOU rather buy when it has 50K racked up?

Rawhyde

 

I have seen regular non synthetic oil after 50,000KM since the last change... Can u say Molases.... It barely came out of the engine....

Mine after 10,000KM is not so bad... :P

There are lots of people out there that do not take care of their automobiles. and don't understand the LONG TERM consequences of not maintaining them.

 

My wife's MINI still has the factory oil fill in it, and she's a month or two from her first scheduled oil change (should be at around 11,000 miles). I've already purchased an engine oil analysis kit, and will be taking a sample before I take the car in to be serviced. I'll post the results here when they come back from the lab.

I expect some of the metal concentrations to be a little high, since this is the oil that was in the car during break-in. The really interesting report will be from the *second* oil change, but that's going to be almost another year from now.

My MINI only has 4,000 fewer miles than hers, but I'll be taking samples from mine as well, just to get more data points.

 

Yeah, it would be great to see some actual data. As has been pointed out, it is a question of long term consequences. If there are any that result from Mini's own recommended intervals, that's not cool.

If, OTOH, they (Mini) have it figured out somehow it would be a waste of oil to be changing it too often.

 

every 5000. it does not go over 5000 without an oil change.

Castrol Synthetic only.

every 16,000 i let the dealer do it for paper work and records sake.

 

Here is what I found on the Royal Purple website, in their FAQ.

Can I put Royal Purple into my brand new car?

Yes. Royal Purple currently offers many viscosity grades of API Licensed Motor Oils. To allow for proper break in of the engine, Royal Purple recommends waiting until the manufacturer’s first scheduled oil change or a minimum of 2,000 miles in new gasoline engines. Allow 8,000 to 10,000 miles before using Royal Purple in diesel engines.

How often should I change Royal Purple in my passenger car?

Royal Purple recommends following the manufacturer’s maintenance intervals while the vehicle is under factory warranty. In clean engines that are no longer under warranty, oil change intervals up to 12,000 miles with continued filter changes every 3,000 to 4,000 miles (top-off oil as needed) are recommended. In dirty engines, Royal Purple recommends standard 3,000 to 5,000 mile oil and filter change intervals until the engine oiling system is clean and free of deposits left by lower quality oils and / or poor maintenance or mechanical problems. This will allow time to gradually remove existing deposits / contaminants without overloading the oiling system (pump, pick-up, filter, etc.). (Mechanical problems such as fuel dilution, coolant leaks into the crankcase, poor air filtration and / or failure to maintain proper oil level are all detrimental factors to the service life of any engine oil. Any one of these factors can significantly shorten the useful service life of any oil).

There has been much discussion on this topic here on NAM.

- KP

http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/faqsa.html

 

Well, it wouldn't require any rocket science on MINI's part - 3,000 mile oil changes are largely an American phenomenon. In Europe, yearly oil changes (10,000-15,000 mile intervals) with full synthetic oil are more the norm, and they don't seem to be having engine longevity problems.

 

I understand that if they design a car that uses less oil, it complies with some random bs incentive for manufacturing. after 4 years mini would love for your car to ignite into flames.

I am hitting 2k with my oil. I am changing it next week. I wont be doing it at the dealer either, their service sux. I think all luxary places have shitty service stations attached under the guise of elitism.

By the way, no mini is shipped with break in oil. your car has a lot of miles when you get it. That 1-20 miles on it is after they drove it, after they ran the engine, and then dumped the old oil and replaced with your synth oil that gets 10k mileage. I dont believe in the 10k thing. oil changes are really cheap compared to a new car, for me it is 2k then every 5k miles after that.

 

+1 try the search button sometime.

 

Not sure that the Europe comparison computes: Americans drive their cars much further and longer than Europeans. The BMW guys in Germany have no idea why we would keep cars as long as we do. It's just a different mindset between "us" and Europe. My sense is that the issue of our idea of longevity is largely irrelevant in Europe.

In Asia it is even more dramatic: Hence, the unending supply of used Japanese motors that make their way to the US. They're done with 'em when we're just getting them broken in.

 

Not sure where you are getting your information. I can't speak for anyone else, but I live in Germany and can speak more for them.

Sure most destinations are closer in Germany and thus Germans may not drive as far, but they definitely push their cars harder than us Americans do. Typical autobahn speeds are around 160 KPH. Germans also take better care of their vehicles than Americans do and the statement about them keeping their cars not as long as we do is actually false. I see many older 80’s cars on the road today and many of them look almost like new and run very well. I still see Trabants driving around.

Bottom line is that several things have taken place to allow a longer run with oil. First, synthetic does not break down the same way that traditional oils do. In mom and pops day, an oil change every 2500 miles was common. Technology has allowed for oil that will last longer under much more strenuous conditions. Add to that, technology has also provided us with tighter engines that require less oil to get the job done. The days of changing the oil every 2500 or even 5000 miles are coming to an end.

Does it hurt to change it? No, the only thing that it hurts is you wallet but the choice is yours.

Lastly, recycle standards are much different in Europe than in the USA and Germans obey that standard to the letter. Because of this, oil is much more expensive here (VAT). Where we pay a whopping 5 dollars or so a quart, Germans pay 21 Euro for a liter of oil (that is over 21 dollars for roughly the same amount). Trust me, I got caught needing a liter and had to buy one on the economy. Thus, the demand for longer lasting oils and cars that can handle it is extremely high here. Europeans, especially Germans, think green. Why waste it if it is still good?

Bottom line is that oil is not a product that is easily recycled so it only makes sense to find oil that will last longer. Manufactures like BMW are only trying to be greener as it is in their best interest as well as the world’s best interest. If you were really curious about this, on your next oil change, take a sample and send it in for analysis and see how it fairs. I’m willing to bet that you will be told that there was nothing wrong with the oil you replaced.

 

I guess it depends on how long you are thinking of keeping your car. In my mind, if something goes wrong with the car and you are following their specifications, then it is their fault. Of course, if you are in warranty this is no problem. However, I wonder if you could sue them if something terrible happens to the engine as a result of following their directions of only changing the oil every 10K. As of right now, I'm following their rules - just in case something happens and I'm NOT following what they say, so I can cover my butt!

 

These two statement are WAY WAY WRONG.......and obsurdly ignores the obvious reality in the automotive world

1. The closest any manufactuer has come to this strategy are domestic auto makers who deeply discount thier products and rely on volume to make money but obviously this is not a strategy to get repeat customers.

It is clear to me that you are know little about engineering (who, what and why specs are given) or buisness(bad products will put you out FAST)

So Why are japenese brands the best (longest lasting) in the world?.......Sounds like an uniformed point of view to me, and a supposition of thier cultures. But since you mention it both those places are intently aware of thier waste, and are both place wheres there is a "culture of quality" where the products they build are seen as a reflection of the people.

I see people on these forums all the time that replace cars just because the warranty is up or at the first repair they act like the car is falling apart.....When all my life until this car I have driven cars more than 10years old and 150,000+ miles and they got me along JUST FINE....and I am assured that those other countries do not view anything let alone cars as disposable items like we do here.......The bar for quality is the lower in the USA than anywhere in the industialized world......"If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere"

 

now that's what I call excessive waste of a perfectly good product. I really do think you could stretch this to every 5K or so and not do any harm. good grief, man!

 

That's my point exactly: If we folllow Mini's guidelines and that ends up being something that shortens the life of the car, the fault lies with the maker not the user. I have tended to err on the side of caution with my other cars (5-7K miles with my BMW 318Ti and synthetic). Back when I worked at Honda there were two sayings I remember: "Any oil is good oil if it's new oil." -and- "Dirty air makes dirty oil."

Living in Los Angeles the air doesn't get much dirtier.