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4/12/22 Update - The car runs and drives again! Please read below. Several issues were causing my no start, but I have done my best to document them all. I will do my best to have troubleshooting tips here in this thread just in case anyone finds this thread and needs help on which direction to go. I should hopefully be able to put that together soon with lots of photos.
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Hey everyone,
I have been farming threads on this site for the entire weekend after I picked up my friend's r52 08 cabrio base mini cooper as my new project vehicle.
Car's Backstory: My wife and I met our two closest friends because of this car. We always joked about the "mini cooper guy" that would whip his little car into our apartment complex like it was a go kart, sometimes with the top down for good measure. A couple of conversations struck up over the car, and we pretty much hit it off with mini cooper guy and his girlfriend immediately. That was in 2015, and we have been close friends with these two ever since, and to this day. In 2017, Hurricane Harvey came and dumped a ton of water on the car, and the car did not handle it so well. (We lived in an area famous for having several '100 year floods' in a short amount of time)
1. My friend unhooked the battery during the down pouring, and that was probably the best decision that night. After the hurricane passed, he had the sense to pull the carpet, start unplugging stuff, and cleaning with QD electronic cleaner before ever putting power back to the car.
He was able to hook power back up and start the car, albeit with some new christmas lights on the dash. He drove the car to a Mini dealer about 2 hours away, and the dealership hooked up the car to diag and informed him that the BC1/Body Control Module in the passenger footwell (US car, of course) was suspect.
2. The tech was able to see "half of the modules" that the BC1 communicates with, and instructed my friend to buy a second-hand BC1 with the exact same options & part numbers as his car, install it, and bring it back to him to be coded to the vehicle.
3. My friend purchased another BC1 with identical part numbers, installed it into the car, hooked the power back up, and was able to successfully turn the car on and drive it. He could put the top down, roll down the windows, turn on the blinkers, listen to the radio, turn on the seat heaters, etc. It seemed the car was able to function fully. He drove the car back to his house (thankfully having the foresight to put the top back up) and shut the car off. When he attempted to start it again, the radio said "DISABLED", and the car would no longer start.
The car now would not start, but obviously was semi-to-mostly functional. The clear plan was to trailer it back to the dealership. At the time, we were not in the same city and could not easily link up. I trailered the car to an acquaintance's house, where the car unfortunately sat from ~2018 to Friday, 04/01/22.
4. I picked the car up this past Friday, drove it to my house, and we immediately checked all fluids, installed a 100% brand new & fresh battery, and turned the key to accessory position. The car comes to life, electronics start whirring again, and we see that the radio still says "DISABLED". We start to tinker a bit, realistically having no real luck, and decide to trailer the car to the dealership a couple of hours away (the same dealership that saw the car and let my friend know he should buy a secondhand BC1 and have it coded to his car.)
5. We get the car to the dealership, and the technician is unable to communicate with the BC1. The ASE certified Service Manager takes us to the bay with the car after some brainstorming, and starts showing us why it will not communicate. I ask him to pull the green connector on the BC1 (as I didn't want to break it), and we find corrosion. Obviously, that is a big issue. The Service Manager tells us about how the KBUS system works, and how to troubleshoot the KBUS junction comb by the passenger seat on the floor. We were a little disappointed, but we loaded the car back on the trailer and drove it home. The radio still saying "DISABLED", and most functions not available on the car. When trying to start the car, NOTHING happens. Just some clicks, and the fuel pump primes (which is a good sign!)
6. We get home and pull the BC1 apart, and find that even the NEW one has some moisture damage. (Gotta be kidding me...) We start testing functions and notice that the hazards/blinker noise doesn't happen when all the connections are plugged into the new BC1. We decide to pull and test a few different combinations of plugged and unplugged connectors, and find that the white connector being unplugged allows us to hear the blinker noise, but the indicators do not actually flash. When the white plug is plugged in, we have no noise, but we SEE the indicators flashing on the car. So I bust out some witch's hazel, soak BOTH boards, and clean all corrosion from them both. No real change between either, other than noticing that we now have blinker noises AND blinkers when we have the original board plugged in. AT THIS POINT, AS OF MY WRITING THIS, I DO NOT TRUST EITHER BC1 BOARD IN MY POSSESSION.
7. After doing the BC1 cleaning and determining that we should just keep the original BC1 in the car, we immediately start pulling the KBUS junction apart and test it for voltage. The volt meter reads '0.3v'. This obviously tells us that the KBUS has a connection somewhere that is sucking the life out of the comb, as we expect to see anywhere from 9v - 12v of power when the system is "at rest". We start pulling connections one by one, and finally find a connection that (when removed) the comb reads '10.7v'. We isolate that wire as far as we can, stopping behind the glovebox. This KBUS/Data Wire clearly has a short somewhere. With this wire disconnected, my friend smacks my arm and says "don't move, the radio is working". Sure enough, the radio now works again!
8. We start testing all common functions of the car:
Blinkers/hazards work
Radio works
The car will lock and unlock
The mirrors will fold in, fold out, and can be adjusted
The windows roll down
The soft top will now let us lower it completely (this did NOT work before, the button was totally dead)
We decide to try and start the car again, and nothing happens. I start poking around in the fuse boxes, replacing a couple that look a little dingy from the years it sat. Under the good, I grab the relay in RL1 while he tries to turn the key, and notice that the relay is warm to the touch. My research tells me this is the K6300 DME Relay, and has a lot to do with the car not wanting to start. I swapped the relay with another identical relay, and the car still won't start OR crank.
9. We research what of the 11 wires connected to the KBUS comb go where, and start working backwards from there. We are able to rule out most of the functions, because we clearly can see that they function in some way. We notice that the airbag light is on, so we pull the center console and get to the Airbag/Restraint Module. I put a meter on the KBUS pin of this harness, and see 10.7v when I plug the problematic KBUS wire back into the comb. Testing voltage at the comb however still shows 0.3v. Interesting...
I pull this component apart, and I find corrosion and what looks like rust/burnt pins. I clean this board with witch's hazel and QD electronic cleaner, and install it back into the car. The airbag did not blow in my face, so good sign there. I test voltage on the KBUS comb with 1 cable still unplugged, and can still see 10.7v on the comb. So I plug the problematic KBUS wire back in, and I still see 10.7v on the comb. I test voltage at the pin, and see 10.7-10.8v (slight fluctuation, but isn't a problem). I put the system back together, and can continuously see good voltage at both the KBUS and the airbag/restraint module KBUS pin. The car still will not start or crank right now, I only hear fuel pump relay click and the fuel pump priming fuel.
10. Update - i jumped the starter solenoid and the car cranked very easily. Did not fire/run, only cranks. This tells me the battery has good connection to starter, and the motor turns freely. This seems more and more like a communication issue
11. Another update - throttle bottle is not jammed, and actuates fully. signal to throttle body is good, as it does it’s little final procedure when turning key off.
12. ECU connections are immaculate.
13. Update - INPA let’s me see the ecu, ews, bc1 and all car functionality. we have good connection to the car, but i cannot reset the immobilizer seed. it tells me “error - ecu rejected”. i have tried both BC1 modules. i’m beginning to wonder if i should look into
14. THE CAR CRANKS!! Check your ignition cylinder plugs, kids. I checked it as a last resort and it was unplugged, most likely from the dealership trip. Always something little to trip you up. Now i just hope i can get the DME and EWS aligned
15. The fuel pump wiring and fuel line from pump to filter disintegrated in the fuel tank. im blaming ethanol. another is on order, and im really hoping this will clear up the powertrain issues. i'll be happy to do simple brake jobs and drive this thing!
16. fuel pump was my issue! the car runs and drives on its own now!
a few new modules (bc1, ecu, ews)
go down the rabbit hole of trying to delete the EWS aspect of this car. no idea if i can do this on the mini, but i’ve seen people do it with bimmers
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Here's where I am now, begging the Mini Cooper enthusiasts and gurus for some pity:
The car will not crank or start
I have not tested voltage at the starter, because I stubbornly feel that this is a EWS/DME/Immobilizer issue
I have not brought the car back to the dealership since Saturday.
I have not been able to scan the car with a good scanner. My wireless 'FIXD' obd2 scanner just gives me a p1617 code
I no longer have KBUS voltage issues
EVERY function in the car seems to be functioning, except for the car cranking.
EWS module shows no signs of water/corrosion/moisture
I check plugs at every opportunity and I have only seen corrosion at the problematic connectors mentioned in my novel above
The key fob battery is dead, and I was unsuccessful in trying to swap the battery and get it to work
The battery in the car is brand new
The top, windows, door locks all function 100%. I do not suspect a Central Locking Issue
I am suspicious of the warm RL1 K6300 DME relay under the hood
I am suspicious of the BC1 (original AND secondhand one, as they both exhibited corrosion)
I am suspicious of the airbag/restraint module, as it was clearly my KBUS short source. I am unsure if this would not allow the car to start
The car has a Service Engine Soon light, an EML light, and the airbag light won't turn off. No other persistent lights
The hatch opens fine
The fact that the car started and drove on the new BC1 and then locked out, leads me to believe there is hope. This feels like a huge clue.
I'm possibly losing sanity
I am hoping sincerely that someone here can read my vomit and hopefully give me some assistant. I have done my best to articulate every step of troubleshooting, without going off on tangents or writing more than necessary. If anyone cares to ask for my elaboration, I will gladly oblige. I'm not new to forums in the slightest, however I AM new to this one. I will post some photos of the car, the cleanup, and the dealership trip/random troubleshooting to give this thread something interesting.
I sincerely appreciate anyone who cares to stop by and give me advice/things to try! The car is in my garage and can be pulled apart for an unlimited amount of time. This car is very sentimental to us, and I have zero intentions of letting it get sold or scrapped. I have every intention of fixing it, restoring it, and having a cool memento to cruise around in.
Cheers everyone
-Chris
Last edited by dearchristopher; 04-12-2022 at 07:12 PM.
Sorry, can't help with fault diagnosis. Do you have the Bentley manual for this series? If not, OBD diagnostics section page OBD-9 for Fault Code P1617 reads "Electronic Control Module H Bridge Controller"
I bought my Bentley manual from forum sponsor WMW as shown here (lowest total shipped price found at that time): Bentley MINI Service & Repair Manual
Further, on page 13-29 within Engine Management section, fault P1617 shows this:
Sorry, can't help with fault diagnosis. Do you have the Bentley manual for this series? If not, OBD diagnostics section page OBD-9 for Fault Code P1617 reads "Electronic Control Module H Bridge Controller"
I bought my Bentley manual from forum sponsor WMW as shown here (lowest total shipped price found at that time): Bentley MINI Service & Repair Manual
Further, on page 13-29 within Engine Management section, fault P1617 shows this:
the book i have is incredibly useless, so i assume i do not have that one. that is super helpful, thank you. im folding it into my troubleshooting and analysis now!
Updated top post - jumped the starter solenoid and the engine turns over and sounds healthy. This tells me that hopefully it is a coding/communication issue and not a mechanical issue. the car did not fire, only cranked
Being 500+ posts long, I haven't read much beyond the 1st post introduction, thus haven't purchased required cable, downloaded any files nor attempted to acquire reasonable working knowledge of the protocol. I'm reasonably tech savvy for an old guy but sometimes, doing the deep dive into new (for me) technology can be daunting. Bottom line, NCSExpert can be used as part of diagnostics as well as downloading and installing an ECU/ECM reflash from and external source (at various expenses). Interesting stuff but I'm conservatively cautious. Unsure that this is the quick fix for you, however hands-on work as you're doing trumps MINI dealer service charges all day long...
Being 500+ posts long, I haven't read much beyond the 1st post introduction, thus haven't purchased required cable, downloaded any files nor attempted to acquire reasonable working knowledge of the protocol. I'm reasonably tech savvy for an old guy but sometimes, doing the deep dive into new (for me) technology can be daunting. Bottom line, NCSExpert can be used as part of diagnostics as well as downloading and installing an ECU/ECM reflash from and external source (at various expenses). Interesting stuff but I'm conservatively cautious. Unsure that this is the quick fix for you, however hands-on work as you're doing trumps MINI dealer service charges all day long...
sincerely appreciate this. i’ve found download links i believe, going to start down the path of being able to communicate with the cas/ecm/dme/ews. i think you’re absolutely right that since i’m diving into electrical stuff, having the software far beats paying the dealership fees. it’s just not feasible to keep towing the car 2 hours away for the off chance that the dealership may not even be able to communicate with the car. teach a man to fish…
minor update, the throttle body moves freely and is controlled by computer still. connection at harness looks great.
ecu connection looks great as well.
i have a kcan cable on order, and a charger is also coming for a very old windows laptop i own. hoping i can get software running on it to diagnose this little car. i feel like it is so close to running.
vl2020 battery should be in tomorrow, going to try and replace the old battery on key fob. hoping that is successful so i can have a small win
PM Shevemini, he spends most of his time over on the Hatch forum. He installed INPA on my window 10 computer remotely with all the correct updates and corrections. Super great guy and has no problems loading it on your computer, you have to have your cable when he does it. Here is a thread you can find him at: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ssing-r50.html
PM Shevemini, he spends most of his time over on the Hatch forum. He installed INPA on my window 10 computer remotely with all the correct updates and corrections. Super great guy and has no problems loading it on your computer, you have to have your cable when he does it. Here is a thread you can find him at: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ssing-r50.html
huge shoutout to @shrevemini for spending a large portion of their evening helping me get all the software installed and actually taking a look at the car with me.
im still facing some issues. i can talk to the ecu, ews, bc1, and see pretty much every active module on the car. i still can’t reset the immobilizer seed on the ecu for some reason. it just tells me “error-ECU rejected!” each time. currently trying to figure out what that could mean
i actually just replaced it two days ago, soldered an entire new battery on the board. but the car is not responding to the fob at all. prior to me trying the new battery, it has been dead for probably 2 years before the car was parked for the last time. so 5-6 years total?
Did you initialize the key/fob after battery replacement? If not, I believe you'll need to. I snagged this procedure off the web some months ago (my own unused spare key battery is dead), which resolved another forum member's problem last week:
"...put the key in the ignition, turn it to Pos 1 and Off again. Remove the key, press & hold the Open Button while pressing the Locking Button 3 times. The Door mechanism will confirm the initializing."
Did you initialize the key/fob after battery replacement? If not, I believe you'll need to. I snagged this procedure off the web some months ago (my own unused spare key battery is dead), which resolved another forum member's problem last week:
"...put the key in the ignition, turn it to Pos 1 and Off again. Remove the key, press & hold the Open Button while pressing the Locking Button 3 times. The Door mechanism will confirm the initializing."
i did not do this, i will give this a shot this evening!
update- i got the key to start locking and unlocking from the fob!
the car still won’t start. haha
Yeah, initialization is just to code the key fob to door locks. At least that's working now! My spare key with dead battery starts and functions normally, with exception no remote function until I replace that battery and do the procedure you did this evening. With everything you've stated known about history plus what has been done subsequently, mismatch in module to VIN seems suspect.
Although you should have more thorough diagnostics tools running soon, curious whether commercially available Foxwell (or ECS' Schwaben by Foxwell) would reveal fault codes more quickly. If it's hardware-related, seems clearing any codes wouldn't resolve but instead indicate next steps. I'm a rookie at this, not being NCS Expert user and only yesterday trying my Foxwell NT510 Elite scanner.
04-03-2022 | 04:19 PM
