I think this is my favorite of all the recurring conversations on this site. Discussing what something is and isn't can be so interesting.

I agree that there is no definition, and I will grant that my R53 and the Clubman S are sporty, athletic sorts of cars. But I can't put them in the same class as 911 GT3s, Lotus Exiges, so on and so forth - to me, those cars are purpose-built for sporting means, whereas MINIs are built with many things in mind. Maybe a sports car is a car with a more single focus, and a sporty car is a normal car that leans in that direction?

Then I think about it like this: I have two cars and one is way more sporty than the other, so that's my sports car.

mb

 

A lot of this seems to say that a Miata is not a sports car cause it doesn't have enough engine?

I tend to disagree with the performance aspect. Probably because I grew up with the MGTD's, TR-3's, Austin Healy's and Sprite's, MG's. They were all sports cars and yet they could not win a drag race against most US station wagons. In fact, a lot of the 'heavy iron' could win on a road race if there was any kind of real speed involved.

Sports Car to me is still defined mostly by it's layout, 2 doors, 2 seats, and 'small'. There is some 'feel' to the definition too as I don't consider the recent Thunderbird a sports car, but, I do the Viper and they are both about the same overall size. I also remember the Honda del Sol, a 2 seater, that I did not consider a sports car. Same with the Smart car. 2 seater, 2 doors and small. Not a sports car to me.

To me if it has a rear seat then it is not a sports car. Yep, the old 911 was a sport sedan. Gets into weird territory. Like the Z 2+2 series. Sports car or sedan? I'd have to say sedan.

Most of this used to sort itself out in racing classes, usually the SCCA's domain. Buth that has gotten a bit confusing in recent years too.

Call it what you want, it's your car

charlie

 

Let your passengers decide if the Clubman S is a sports car.

Hit the Sport Button and they'll agree that it is a sports car.

 

Not only that, then cuss'em out for adding dead weight to your sports car's handling! :P

 

I basically agree w/ mbcoops.

I cannot call the clubman a sports car
I also do not call my R53 a sports car
In my opinion a sports car is not designed to be driven everywhere everyday... a weekend car (think lotus)
whereas a MINI, IMO, is a sporty car, and I would say the clubman, while still sporty, is less sporty. but the GP is more sporty
I think the GP is the closest MINI to a sports car b/c of the reduced weight, removed seats, and reduced sound deadening, and increased power. also, b/c it is a limited production car, most people do not use it as their daily driver.

 

but... I guess you could say I'm a "purist" as I would have difficulty calling the M3 a "sports car"
but a ford mustang has always been considered a sports car (by the general public, not me) yet it has 4 seats and until you get a model that costs double the base sticker price, it's slow

 

The mustang is a ponycar (camaro, firebird, etc.), not a sports car. Until the viper came out, the Corvette was the only American sportscar (since 1950).

 

Not the only one. The Solstice is here now. The Ford GT came and went. Same with the Fiero. The first Thunderbird. Then there were the small mfg ones, Cunningham, Allard J3, Cobra (hybrid US/UK), etc. The Corvette is the only one that survives with steady sales year to year.

And, I agree, the Mustang/Camaro/Firebird, were never and never will be sports cars.

charlie

 

I am not sure I would want to classify the fiero as a sports car, maybe if you pickup the ferrari body kit people used to put on those junky cars. I would agree that the Mini is not a sports car, it is a sporty car. It is fun to drive, I think very few cars really fit the definition of a sports car. As long as the insurance company thinks it is not a sports car, I am a happy camper.

 

No sportscar performance in 'Italian Job'...none whatsoever. What poseurs, and SO misleading!

 

correct. I don't know of any sports car that can fly out of a drain pipe

 

Any car can drive fast through city streets and down stairs. Even a Kia could have driven through sewer pipes

 

The clubman is a sports sedan no matter which powerplant you put in it. My e92 M3 doesn't even qualify as a GT because it is essentially a 2-door sports sedan (If it were a real GT there would be no 4-door variant). A 2+2 or a 2 seater begins the qualifications for sports car. And if my M3 doesn't count our Cooper S clubmen don't either. That said, sports sedan is a pretty broad category that includes some very desirable cars.

 

OK, Websters says:

"A car equipped for racing, esp. an aerodynamically shaped one- or two- passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity, and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds on curving roads."

So, that works for me.

 

Lets look carefully look over what Wikipedia has to say.

Now lets break it down:
Well a Mini Clubman is low to the ground.
Point One YES

Mine is light weight and has a powerfull engine.
Point two YES

But not all.
Point Three YES

Mine has two seats. Okay it has two more as well but it meets the requirement. BTW many of the classic Sports Cars also had rear seats. So maybe they were not quite as usable but they were there.
Point Ffour YES

Again mine has the two doors, and three extras so it also meats the requirmtent. And again many of the calsic sports cars had a third door (hatch)
Point Five YES

Mini's are definitely designed for Precise handling and acceleration.
Point Six YES

I love the aesthetics of my clubman.
Point Seven YES

A mini CLubman meets all of these requirements.
Point Eight YES

These are just added benefits.
Point Nine Questionable

Mine is luxurious and others i have seen are more spartan.
Point Ten YES


Many of us drive them for the mechanical performance.
Point Eleven YES


Opps they left out the Mini Racing heritage. There is definitely a racing heritage.
Point Twelve YES



So cars that are not raced ar also considered sports cars.
Point Thirteen YES

So with 12 out of thirteen questions answered YES tehn a clubman MUST be a Sports Car.

 

LOL

I still like Websters' better. But, then cars like the MG TD and Morgan (4+4 and Plus 8) are a left out. Oh well.

 

To me a true modern sports car is one where extracting optimal performance and speed is the paramount objective of its design. Even strapping a huge engine in a Merc estate for example doesn't make it a sports car in my eyes, just aerodynamically it doesn't work and in the end it is an engine and technology striving to overcome the inherent nature of the car.

Sure there are a lot of fun sporty cars, just IMHO the subjective enjoyment factor does not make it a sports car.

 

Hahahaha what clubman are you driving? They come stock from the factory with a full fist size of wheel gap and a good 6-7 inches of ground clearance from the lowest point. That is not "low to the ground" by any means.

In terms of ride height the clubman borders on compact sport utility vehicle.

I'm not sure 160hp can be considered powerful when most of the other cars in our class are making 200+.

 

Game-Set-Match!

 

99 doge pickup 14" to ground
2000 VW 9" to ground
2003 chrysler mini van 11' to ground.
2003 BMW 525 "SPORTS"wagon 5.5" to ground

And BTW yours is much lower as well from the last pictures i saw.

Not even close


It is more of a HP to weight ratio thing. Oh and then yo have the gearing to take into consideration.

Oh and buy the way Mine has been on the Drag Strip (factory stock) and beat out a 2000 Mustang, mid 70's Matador with turbo installed and a 2007 VW Golf. Now not all of these are SPORTS cars but if mine can beat the Mustang then i will consider my clubman a sports car.

But then again is can also see your point about it not being a sports car. So to each his own.

 

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree. please, no one take this as an attack on schatzy62 -- that's not my intention at all. I just think there was a little bias involved in their judgment of the clubman (who wouldn't be biased toward their car, I know I would)
I think the GP is the only MINI that can be considered a sports car based on this definition...


Well a Mini Clubman is not low to the ground... the entire car can make it up or down a curb w/o bottoming out (this is tricky to accomplish, but it can be done)
Point One NO


Point two NO


Point Three NO


4 seats
Point Four NO


1+1=2, not 5
Point Five NO

Mini's are designed for Precise handling and acceleration... Clubman's are less in each of those categories than the Coopers. although some may argue aesthetics
Point Six NO


The entire purpose of the clubman is to be bigger, with more space, to provide more comfort.
Point Seven NO


Luxury=Aston Martin.. Spartan=Lotus
Point Eight NO

Performance is not the KEY attraction to a Clubman
Point Nine NO


Point Ten YES


So with 1 out of 10 questions answered YES, I (notice: this is MY opinion) would say the Clubman is NOT a "sports car"

 

Wow when did Wikipedia become any type of authority, unfortunately it's extremely subjective and in many cases inaccurate...But I digress.

Technically there are 3 different classes of sport cars. Muscle (nope), Exotic (I wish) and Tuners (bingo).

Regardless of the title we are looking to put on our Clubman's, my insurance increased $70 a half, compared to my 05 loaded GMC Yukon I traded in?

 

Sorry, but, I've never considered the Mustang a sports car. Nor any muscle cars. Some 'exotics' and 'tuners' are, but, not all of them. WRX was a great tuner, but, it is a sedan. RX7 was a great tuner and a sports car. Several Ferraris were exotic cars, but, with 4 seats would be sedans, while other Ferraris are definitely sports cars.

I still consider the Mini is a sport sedan. I could be talked into it being a GT.

 

good point

 

C'mon you have to be kidding, obviously you've never ridden/driven a 66 Mustang fastback. I had a 68 SS Camaro named Cherry that would disagree. Did you read this before post'n it? Several Ferraris were exotic? Isn't that an oxymoron?