I have a 2009 Mini S Clubman, and I am rapidly becoming disillusioned with this company and the automobile. With just 36,000 miles, I have had to take the car to a dealership twice for engine warning light problems involving injectors. Service people at two DIFFERENT dealerships have told me about significant problems with the high pressure fuel pump designs causing repeated injector problems. They said that BMW/MINI engineers are familiar with the problem, but are doing nothing about it.

I have already bought a 100,000 mile maintenance agreement, but am now having to decide whether I keep the car since the warranty will expire at 50,000 miles, just 14,000 miles from now.

Looks like my options are to get rid of the car or to keep the car and spend $2400 for the 100,000 mile extended warranty. To add to the conflict, the dealership says that the $2400 after market warranty is a better 100,000 mile warranty than the one offered by MINI, although the MINI extended warranty costs $2800.

Really have to make a decision soon, and would like your opinion.

 

i was in the exact same situation. although i loved the mini, financially and realistically it wasn't making sense. traded in for a 5 series. much happier. this all happened on saturday so its still fresh in my mind.

 

Service reps at both MINI dealerships said that BMW has been having problems with the high pressure fuel pumps on their models also. Engineers at both MINI and BMW need to get off of their asses and do something about the situation.

 

Sorry for your loss. Best bet is to get rid of it. Take a few grand loss, sell it then buy a better more reliable car. Been there done that myself. Worst car I have every owned. I will never buy another one nor will I buy a BMW because they are selling these POS cars.

 

Ouch!

 

If the total of your problems is two CEL's in 36K miles, my take is that you're panicking and spending too much time reading about doom and gloom car issues on the internet.

I'm not familar with the fuel pump issue, but there are always people out there saying that the sky is falling and it is just a matter of time before the car blows up. In reality, these problems are seldom as serious as they sound. And if they are serious, the mfg is definitely working on a fix because it simply costs them too much in warranty claims.

I've seen six or eight "major" issues over the years with BMWs. Sometimes it takes awhile, but BMW typically steps up and fixes the issue. Sometimes they do it for free, sometimes it takes some money out of warranty, but the problems can be solved and you can get a reasonably reliable car.

Rather than hand-wringing over this one issue, I'd look at the overall reliability picture. In this regard, let's be honest here. No, a Mini is not likely to be as trouble-free as a Mazda 3 or Honda Civic. Nature of the beast. If this bothers you or you don't have a good service situation, then perhaps it is time to change priorities and move into something different. But you'll take a big monetary hit.

Minis are fun cars and reward drivers who take a little bit of the "roll with the punch" attitude towards problems. Work around them, get them fixed, bug BMW a bit, but solider on. The statistics say that if you look past your issues to date that the car will be reasonably trouble-free from this point forward. That's not an ironclad assurance, but then what in life is? And in any event, I don't see a huge risk in staying with the car another 10K miles or so.

I'd postpone as long as possible getting the extended warranty because if you do decide to sell, you won't get your money back. If you do get one, I'd stay away from 3rd-party ones - the dealer may be pushing you to these because they make more money on them. They may even be giving you the "all of these cars have problems" line to push you into buying the warranty. As a general rule, all extended warranties are poor values in that the odds of you getting back in claims more than you spent on the warranty are slim. It's much more cost-effective to stick the $2800 in a 3% interest money-market account as a rainy-day fund for car repairs and accept the small risk that you might spend more than that. And once out of warranty, you can shop around and find a good independent mechanic that can reduce your service and repair costs 30%-50% from the dealer's.

- Mark

 

I get what you are saying Mark and we appreciate your positive attitude (honestly) but i have never had a SINGLE problem with any car (any make/model) during the warranty years in my lifetime. If I were the OP I would feel pissed off and negative too. Especially if my car broke down twice on the side of the rode with my kids in it god forbid. I don't care what kind of car it is or how "fun" it is to drive. Clearly BMW cares about safety as well or they would just market the MINI S to teens and car fanatics without the cost of all those added safety features, lol.

I would like to see a person at MINI sell a MINI buy giving your response Mark. Wouldn't happen. Especially the part about the "rolling with the punches."

And again, I do understand, agree with, and appreciate your positive take on it. I must, I just bought a MCC. (fingers crossed)

 

Guess your lifetime is not that long.

2001 Volvo S40. First year of production. Dealer could not diagnose that the rack and pinion unit was defective after 7 trips in a 3 month period (first 3 months I had the car). Volvo took the car back under the lemon law and refunded me all of my money. What did the guys at the dealership say to me... hey you got to drive a car for 3 moths for free .

2003 Chrysler Town and Country Limited Minivan. Totally loaded all options. The entire ENGINE was replaced with 900 miles and 3 weeks after purchase . Many other problems while leasing the car for almost 4 years. Paid to give the car back 4 months early. Then we leased a 2008 Toyota Highlander Limited. We have not been back to the Toyota dealer in 20 months. Not even once for anything. That was my first and last American car. I will NEVER buy another. I am glad I lease cars. It was very satisfying to drive back to the dealer that I purchased the car from and had it serviced at and say here are the keys, take your piece of crap car back.

2009 MINI JCW. I have been to the dealer a few times mostly for cosmetic problems. Maybe this is a different situation but I don't mind going to the dealership; Prestige MINI in Mahwah, NJ, they treat me great and always give me a MINI as a loaner. I have to bring the car in on Monday because the SIRIUS Sat radio has stopped working. OH noes serious problem there .

This MINI is the first car that I actually purchased in forever. I am very happy with it and glad that I did not lease it because I have done so many different mods to the car. I would have never done these things if it was leased.

Bottom line... MY car has been very reliable for ME in the 13 months that I have had it. I would buy another MINI in an instant and have recommended them to my family and friends.

 

I have owned a 2007 MCS since feb 2007 which was the earliest build. It has 30k miles on it. I have had zero problems with it in 32k miles. Dont let your opinion be swayed by a few minor issues. IMHO the complexity of cars today makes them less reliable than they used to be.

 

My wife bought a Mini first, and it's been so much fun, that I ordered one! As long as I keep enjoy driving as much as I have in her car, I will put up with a couple of returns to the dealer. I think the odds are on my side.

 

not so much bad news. I didnt trade in because the car was having problems. I traded in because warranty end was approaching, my car was modified heavily, and considering what i was paying for the car, plus what i would add to an extended warranty, it made more sense to pay into a car that i would be comfortable driving 3-5 years from now. the loss on keeping it was the same as the loss on trading. i should add that i bought a low mileage preowned at 0.9% with 100k extended warranty. payments came less, and overall became a better decision, considering the possible problems down the road.

 

i should also add that while it is an extremely fun car to drive and has a unique personality, for many people as that fades, it becomes a car. Some people are able to hold on to it and remind themselves that its this awesome machine (these people being enthusiasts).

Trust me, I wanted a MINI my whole life, and was very happy with the purchase, but after a couple of years you evaluate your situation and sometimes it just makes more sense switching. I would love to have a MINI as a second car later in life, but for now, 4 doors makes more sense.

Also, we can assume that as you move up in the brands of cars, reliability is always going to go down. Its kind of stupid, but the more expensive cars are, the less reliable they get. One should also consider that when trading their MINI.

If you're not going to go to a honda/toyota/nissan/infiniti/mazda, you're probably going to end up with reliability issues anyway. I think the problem most people have accepting is that the MINI is a premium subcompact. And while there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, it does make for questioning.

Those that do know what it really is, i think, get confused and irritated when it starts to give them problems that they would normally see in a bmw or mercedes. A lot of MINI buyers dont buy it because of the branding or the feeling you get when you drive it. They look at the same cars in its class, vw gti, volvo c-something, ford escort, honda fit, scion...and they say, this is much nicer. They dont know about this website, or the fact that you can mod this car. They just go and buy it because its small and gets good mileage. I think thats the type of people that end up getting upset when it has problems. Those that dont know what theyre getting into.

It all boils down to if you are willing to make the necessary payments to maintain a MINI, or would you rather make those payments with another car.

 

Judging from your past experience with NEW cars that seems to be the case.

Btw, you have only owned your MINI 13 months and you have had to take it to the dealer a few times already? That's not acceptable even for minor issues IMHO. I don't care if my dealer gives me a hummer (the SUV) every time I bring my MINI in when it breaks. I would just rather not have to bring it in at all and shouldn't have to.

All teasing aside, I am glad that you have had fewer issues with your MINI. For both you and me!!!! I hope to be in the majority of those who have no issues at all when I finally get mine. AndI do believe that the majority DON'T have issues.

 

Rented a brand new (117 miles) Dodge Avenger and the heating and air conditioning unit did not work. I froze my *** off in 40 degree weather so all brands have problems. I have owned 13 BMW's and now a 2010 Clubman S and have had very few problems or I wouldn't keep buying them. I have almost 3000 on the Mini and it has exceeded my expectations so far.

 

Hey buckbs I would keep the MINI, I dont think it has given you enough trouble to pull the plug. According to your signature you love the car??

 

Some notes on the reliability issue:

+ The most reliable new cars today have about 1-2 problems per year on average; the least reliable 3-5. Yes, that means that the worst cars might have 3x the number of problems. But it also means that even the most reliable cars have problems. Some cars have no problems whatsoever, but if you make this your expectation, you're likely to be disappointed.

+ Despite the complexity, today's cars are MORE reliable than yesterday's, continuing a steady improvement in overall reliability for the last fifty or so years. Complex fuel injection systems, networked electrical systems, electronics, servos, etc. are simply much more reliable than carburetors, vacuum systems, mechanical linkages, and rube goldberg systems that used to be on cars to do things like intermittent windshield wipers. Today's cars are astoundingly reliable compared to the cars of twenty years ago.

+ Options and the electrical systems associated with them, are the most troublesome part of any car and if you load your car up with gizmos, then you have more opportunity for failure. The most reliable cars are the ones where you hold the line on the option sheet. I'd match the reliability of a simple Mini up against a loaded-up Lexus luxury car any day of the week despite Lexus having a sterling reliability record and Mini having a spotty one.

No car is perfect. Look at the data and then decide if the extra 1 problem or so that the Mini is going to have per year over a Mazda 3 is going to be worrisome or not. Some people don't care if a car has a problem and needs fixing now and then; others it drives them stark, raving crazy. There is no right answer for everyone.

Final comment: I've owned perhaps 20 new cars in my lifetime and I always find myself looking at replacing them at 3-5 years, not because my needs have changed or the car is problematic, but because there is something new coming along that looks too cool to pass up. My 2004 MCS is the ONLY car I've owned in my lifetime where this has not occurred. I like it as much today as the day I bought it. And it has not been completely trouble-free - I've had to replace a window lift and there was a steering rack problem that required a fix. I may be forgetting some other glitch. But all is forgiven when I drive it every day. Reliability may be the #1 thing you want when you buy a refrigerator, but cars need to do a lot more than just be reliable.

- Mark

 

For me, 2 lights in 36,000 miles would be nothing. I'm trying to find the LIST of problems I've had with my car in only 19,000, and the new problems I'm having because my car can't handle the cold. My prepaid insurance is up in a few months, and I cannot wait to get out of this car.

Unless, that is, our entire R56 engines are recalled by then and our problems are all resolved.

 

My car has yet to have any issues with 32k on the dash. It's the nature of the beast. I mean when you think about it vehicles rely on so many things happening right at once it is truly amazing that the things don't just explode! lol I'm an aircraft mechanic and I have to tell you that comparatively, cars are a cakewalk. I had a Jeep Cherokee that was a mechanical nightmare, but the engine was very reliable. My 06 MCS is proving to be the most reliable and best driving vehicle I have ever owned or driven. It's all a crapshoot as to whether or not your car is reliable. Don't condemn the manufacturer for a few bad vehicles now and then. My parents have had 2 BMW's in the past 5 years (323 ci and X5) and those were both FANTASTIC vehicles. The X5 is still going strong as ever. Afterall, you will always hear from the people that are having problems, but rarely from the ones who don't. Again, it's just the nature of the beast.

Being a mechanic I don't mind these kinds of issues because I love to tinker with my ride any chance I get. I have never owned a stock vehicle for more than a few months before I start to mod it out. I understand some people aren't into all that and don't have the patience or capabilities sometimes. No biggie. BUT, if it REALLY pisses you off, get rid of it! No use being unhappy with something.

 

just went over 10K on my 09 and other than 2 cold start knocks in the first 3K and 3 months and a few very minor fit/adj issues no problems at all in a little over a year of ownership. compared to my 05 S this car is much better built, and MUCH more reliable.

 

It's not for BMW to get off their asses. The fuel pumps are made by a BMW contractor. BMW only buys and installs them. It's the contractor that needs to step up their overall build and quality-control.

 

This is really the key point to keep in mind. For me, the pleasure I get from driving the MINI far outweighs the additional few problems per year (on average) that one might get

And I might add that for those who actually like working on their cars, those potential additional problems are not a big deal.

 

I'm 66 years old and retired, love high performance cars, and love the Mini, BUT I do not like the high maintenance and the possible high repair costs after the maintenance and regular warranties run out. Cost for a brake job at the dealership is $1000-1200, and just the regular maintenace work is pricey. That why I have already paid for the extended maintenance contract for 100,000 miles ..... I have no problem with that because I will need a brake job before I reach 100,000 miles. That is cost effective.

The cost associated with replacement of the high pressure fuel pump, possible injector replacement, or the associated manifold work can run into thousands of dollars, and I am reading on this forum about more than the usual number of problems that owners are having with these issues.

The car is not leased. It is PAID FOR. That means that I could in all probability run into major repairs after I reach 50,000 miles and that is why I am debating either keeping the car and buying the extended warranty to the tune of $2300 dollars or biting the bullet and getting minimal credit on a trade-in for another vehicle. Dealerships do not want a trade in with the car maket the way that it is. They want to sell cars without adding to their inventory.

My tendency right now is to keep the car, and bite the bullet for an extended warranty to the tune of a $2300 expense for the fun of keeping this car that I really like. I just never have had a vehicle, even at my age, that has had this many problems.

I guess that it amounts to the saying, "If you are going to dance, you've got to pay the piper".

 

Markjenn,trying to do the math here,how old are you?I'm thinking 20 cars 3-5 years,you must be up there.Q

 

Thanks for pointing that out! But this does include owning more than one car at a time and a few that didn't stay in inventory for more than a year or two.

- Mark

 

It all depends on the situation, but would the dealerships be pushing these extended maintenance contracts if, on average, they lost money on them and were "cost effective" for the consumer? Of course not.

The $1000-$1200 "brake job" they quote is for suckers.

For one, if you're on a maintenance contract, they're probably going to cheap out in any way they can to do the minimal brake job they can (just pads) if they existing components are in spec, whereas if you're paying the bill, then they'll immediately change their tune to recommend full pads/rotor replacement. So the true value of that brake job you're planning on is more like $400, not $1000-$12000. They're in the business to make money and it's all about maximizing profit.

Second, under contract they won't change the pads until you're totally at the wear limits whereas if on your dime they'll recommendi complete brake job anytime the pads are at 50% or less.

Third, any good independent shop can halve the cost of routine maintenance like this and probably do a better job. (I replace pads on my own at the cost of about $130 for a complete pad change and replace rotors every 2x or 3x times the pad changes for an additional $250 or so. So my overall cost of brake maintenance is about 15% of what it costs at the dealer. But even if you have the work done you can reduce costs dramatically if you do your homework.)

Fourth, even if you use the dealer, you can typically find service specials that can reduce costs by 25% or more. And tell them to not change the rotors if they're within spec which will further reduce costs.

On the fuel pump problems, yes it can be pricey, but honestly, these sorts of repairs just don't happen that often. When talking you into their high-profit, poor-value extended warranties, the finance guy always likes to point out that if the car computer fails, it will cost you $3K to have it replaced. What they fail to mention is that perhaps one in one thousand owners actually has to have it replaced out of warranty, so the true cost risk you're running of having to replace a computer is about $3. These things are astounding reliable and although dealers do occasionally swap them out under warranty, its typically a connector or sensor issue and they're just grasping at straws.

Extended warranties are INSURANCE, just like life insurance. It reduces risk and makes the cost more predictable. But if you can "run bare" you'll almost always come out ahead. And have a lot more options to reduce costs if problems do occur.

FYI, I have a friend in the business and the markup on extended warranties, extended maintenance plans, and wheel/tire insurance is about 100% at a typical dealership. This means that about half of what you pay for these plans goes directly into the dealership's pocket (with the finanace manager and salesman splitting the lion's share), and the rest goes to the insurer who still makes a profit. THAT'S WHY THEY PUSH THIS STUFF SO HARD - THEY MAKE ALMOST ALL THEIR PROFIT ON A CAR SALE FROM THIS STUFF. This gives you some idea of the value of these things. But if they help you sleep at night, perhaps they're worth it to you.

So I'll repeat my advice: Buck up, bite the bullet, drive the car, and stop worrying so much. Leave the money for a new car or an extended warranty in your pocket. Buy a nice dinner for yourself and your SO tonight to celebrate.

- Mark