Hello,

I have noticed that many of you list a 19mm or 22mm rear sway bar as one of the modifications that you have made to your R55 Clubman.

I am thinking about installing a 19mm or 22mm in my R55 S because I am very disappointed with the current setup. I have been told by some that the Clubman can use a bit more than the 19mm because of the longer wheelbase and added weight over the R56. This seems sensible but I'm looking for a more diverse range of input.

I would greatly appreciate thoughts and feedback on the subject. Thoughts about your Sway Bar Mod experience. What are your honest impressions of the 19mm bar or the 22mm bar that you have. Driving style and improvements and or short comings you see.

Thanks in advance for all the help.

 

Go with the 22mm rear sway bar. You can't make a 19mm stiffer if it's not enough. You can always use the lowest of the three settings on a 22mm if it's too much. I have a 25mm set on the middle setting and it's perfect. I don't have any understeer anymore.

 

I have a 19" and it's great. I have it on the middle setting and barely have any understeer. If I put it on the stiffest setting then it would be gone.

Either size is fine, but CRoth is right in that you with a 22" you have more options if you want to go even stiffer later on.

 

I have a 22mm set in the middle and NM springs, which has worked well for me. I'm a fairly conservative driver, but my previous cars were 3-series BMW's and the understeer with the stock setup on my MCCS took all the fun out. I thought about 19, but I'm happy that I went with the 22.

 

Thank you all for the responses. It seems the 22 will be my choice.

Bugeye, how do you feel about the springs? I was thinking about the NM RS Alpha Springs for the R55, but I live in NY and I thought they would lower the car too much. Is that what you have? If so, what do you think about them? Do you have any pictures of your MCCS showing the side of the car? I would like to hear more.
Dan

 

Here is a pic of my Clubman with NM Springs. I believe the drop is 1.2 inches officially.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zugzugmcd/4859881033/

 

I have a 22mm bar in the rear of my MINI and it's one of the best & least expensive mods you can make to the car... It totally transformed the car from understeering in the turns to being neutral...

 

To be honest... I just installed my rear sway bar. Even though its a R56 and not a R55... this is what I think I've come to notice on the forum. Whoever has a 22mm bar will say go 22, whoever has a 19, says go 19. I haven't seen someone with one that says go with another. The conclusion I get from that.. is whatever people have they are happy, because they don't know what they are or aren't missing. I have the 19mm.. and am completely happy with it, and I don't really know what I'd be missing if I had a 22.

Just to nitpick, the lowest setting on a 22mm is still more than the stiffest on a 19. I've heard people can get lift off oversteer (when on a sweeper and on the throttle, when lifting off oversteer occurs). I've experienced this in the wet only so far, but I've only had the bar for 3 weeks.

Another note, I picked up my Eibach 19mm rear bar for 90$ shipped, new, from autoanything.com
I did end up getting the Way Motor Works rear bushings and bracket though, for 25$, still though, cheaper than most (if not all) other bars i've seen for the mini. the only downside, it only has 2 holes. The further one matches the stock hole location, aka a "middle" setting on other 19mm bars, and then a stiffer hole (aka the stiffest hole on other 19mm bars). I have mine set on the stiffer of the two, and don't know anyone who uses the softest hole on a 3 hole bar anyways.

My .02

 

I had both the 19 mm and 22 mm on my car which is also a r56. Both were on the car for a substantial amount of time with both road and track time. Not sure how it changes with a clubman. But I would say go with the 19 mm if it was street use. The 22 mm does change the car handling enough where it could surprise you and you might do something that will be problematic. A few members of this forum had oversteering issues and with a sudden or quick lift, it can be more fun than you bargined for.

 

Typically for just a street car R55 the 19mm will work great, but if your a sportier driver you may want the 22mm. Either way I recommend the Hotchkis bars they are the best. We've been using them for years, as you can see people also like to buy their bushings cause they are so good.

If you want a 22mm the Hsport Comp bar is the one for you. It physically measures 25.5mm but is only as stiff as a 22mm bar, cause it is hollow. That gives you a weight savings of several pounds over any other bar and won't squeak.

As for the NM springs, they are fantastic. We've been using them on all our clubman projects.

 

Whiteline makes a 20mm bar that is adjustable. It's in between, just right for my r55

 

Do you have any other suspension mods already? What don't you like about your current set-up? Are you still on the stock alignment? Am I asking too many questions? Should I have another beer?

Really though, I think a 22mm bar is good for auto-x, and the 19mm bar is good for street and/or track use. Good for auto-x because oversteer is fast for auto-x. But it really does depend on the rest of your set-up and your plans.

- Andrew

 

Just ordered the Way Motor Works, read a lot of good feed back on this bar from several racers/auto x'rs & open-track guys.

Good price too @ $200.

FWIW.

 

Hey Andrew, I gave your question a little thought and at this point I have a fairly stock 2010 R55S. I bought this car new in June after turning back my BMW 528 at lease end. I have had 5- 5 series BMW's in a row and the last 3 were the exact same body style ('04,'06, & '08) and I didn't want a 4th. You see, the new 528 will not be available until January 2011 at the earliest, so I walked across the street and bought the Clubman S. Enough about that, back to your questions.

I have about 3000 miles on the car and I have done a few mods already and I’m in the middle of a few more. I have installed an M7 Turbo Heat Shield, J-Brace Strut Bar, Ram-2 air scoop, and Pre-Intercooler Charge Pipe to delete the muffler. I have the NM CAI sitting here in the box waiting for a good afternoon to do that install. I swapped out the standard S grill and chrome surround for the JCW grill and black surround. I’m Looking to do the BSH Oil Can and a Cold Side Pipe to delete the noise maker and then maybe a new Cat back exhaust system.

Along the way I have come to dislike a number of things about the suspension and tire setup. First, I think I really hate the run-flats on this car. I had them on my last 2 525/8's and the impact on the ride and handling didn't bother me as much. On the Mini they are really harsh and compromise the cars handling quite a bit. I feel the RF’s give up a lot of grip in both the turns and the braking. That will be my first change. I purchased a Mini spare donut and when I return from my trip I will be picking up a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus or Continental ExtremeContact DW. I'm hoping that this change will improve both the ride and handling attributable to the tires.

Then it’s my intention to address the core of my dislikes…this car experiences a way too much rear body roll which results in a loss at the front end through the twisties. I have been told that the first step should be to upgrade replace my rear sway bar. I have pretty much settled on a larger bar than 19mm. Seems everyone with the 19mm says they’re happy but I detect a note of “if I had it to do it again” in their responses. Considering the type of driving I do, I think the 20, 22, or 25 Hsport will way I go. Beyond these two modifications, I will need to reevaluate the situation and consider the impact/result of these changes. This may be all I need to address with the suspension and tire setup.

I have read a bit about springs and the effect of a change but to tell the truth I am a bit torn on this issue. First, I’m not really sure any of my dislikes are because of spring rate and I live in Metro NY area. I travel about 350 miles a week all over NY,NJ, CT. Basically the roads in this area range from OK to Horrible so I’m not so sure I need or could tolerate a stiffer ride. Second, I do like the look of the car when lowered by an inch or so, but back to the roads in my area issue, do I want to compromise suspension travel for looks? So I don’t know about springs at this point.

My next dislike/problem has to do with the car’s braking; I think it could be a lot better. I know that the changes to the sway bar and most significantly the tires will have an impact on braking, but I don’t see that firming up the mushy pedal. I think I am going to upgrade to SS brake lines as a start and see what that does in conjunction with the tires. I have been looking at a number of other solutions but all are pretty big bucks. I can get a Willwood caliper kit that uses the 294mm rotors for about $600 all the way up to the Big “JCW 316mm brake kit” that upgrades all four wheels.

So, That what I’m thinking…any thoughts??

 

Definitely dump the stock tires, and if you can then get lighter wheels too. These make a huge improvement in all areas of the car.

With regards to lowering springs, I don't think they are a good idea. The car rides rough and handles poorly stock because of the runflats, the lack of travel, and the valving of the stock shocks. New tires and better shocks (Bilstein HD) make a world of difference, and then the lack of travel with good shocks becomes less of a problem. Lowering the car however just kinda doesn't make sense to me when the car is on the bumpstops stock. I actually do not think there is too much body roll stock...maybe a little and there is some bushing squishiness. The NM and TSW springs seem like they get good reviews though, but you have to keep in mind some people don't ride on the really crappy roads we get so suspension travel is not quite as big a problem. The roads near me really suck too and i feel it on stock shocks/springs with lighter wheels and non-runflats.

Bilstein HDs have some gas pressure that will reduce body roll a little bit.

Really big swaybars "feel" fast...but they aren't always "better." It's such a profound change that most people are indeed ecstatic about the difference. Although it's fun, you could be reducing your rear grip a bit too much and reducing overall grip. I prefer a more medium set-up with a good alignment to keep the balance of the car right. To be honest both the medium and huge bars are going to feel great compared to stock and it might be best to try and find someone near you to ride with.

So yeah, make sure you get a good alignment no matter what. The loss of front grip IMO is more from the lack of front camber than the body roll (and the lack of travel but that's a more difficult fix).

You can get a little bit more front camber out of the stock set-up by taking out that plug or whatever and shifting the tophats over or you can get something like the Ireland Engineering Fixed camber plates, which use a rubber mount beefier than stock that adds a nice chunk of negative camber (you end up around -1.75 or so). With a good alignment, I suspect that a 22mm bar is not nearly as good a choice and the increased front negative camber will shift the balance on it's own. Street tire wear should still be pretty good with 0 or close to 0 toe.

The Clubman I think might work better with the 20mm whiteline than a 19mm, but I don't know first hand.

If it were my daily driver for fun and maybe a track day or two clubman, I'd do either the 20mm whiteline with a good alignment, or a 19mm bar with the IE fixed plates and a more aggressive alignment. The good thing is most bars are adjustable and you can play around some, or add the front camber plates later.

For braking, I think I'd recommend starting with SS lines and good pads. I run the Stoptech Street Performance pads which are fairly new. Pretty good street pads. The big JCW kit is a lot of cash and might not be worth it unless you're tracking the car a lot.

Hope I helped.

- Andrew

 

Along with the 20mm rear bar, I also have Megan coilovers, TSW adjustable end-links and Megan adjustable lower control arms.

The Megan coilovers have adjustable camber plates on the front units and the camber plates also serve as a strut tower defender. The shocks also are adjustable.

As mentioned above, the Clubman has a lot of rear roll oversteer, and the first inclination is to put as big a bar as you can find to control the roll and the accompanying weight transfer to minimize or the oversteer. However too big of a bar can result in a twitchy felling or snap oversteer if a correction is made mid turn.

With the coilovers the car can be lowered which in turn reduces the amount of roll oversteer that needs to be countered, so a softer setting on the sway bar can be used for all the "normal" driving the car is used for.

Lowering springs will also lower the roll center of the car, but the reduced travel can damage the stock shocks.

With my setup I can go from a fairly soft winter setting to something more aggressive in the summer and still be reasonably comfortable. This is primarily done by raising or lowering the car and changing the rear sway bar settings. By changing the shock adjustment and going way low I can get a very aggressive setup for those times when that is appropriate.

So to stay on course here, in general the 20mm bar on the full soft setting is good for the winter and the full hard setting is good for the summer. I have enough other adjustments available that I can go softer or more aggressive if need be.

 

I have a dumb question. Cant seem to find the answer though so here goes. Is the rear swaybar for an R55 the same as an R56?

 

the sway bars are identical, and as far as I can tell everything else is the same also. I have wondered about the rear spring rates, but those seem to be the same also, which would explain some of the rear handling issues.

 

A bit of trailing braking cures this oversteer condition... It's the first thing you learn when driving a$$ engined **** slot cars (i.e. Porsches)...

 

I have sport suspension stock ride height and a 22 Alta on full soft on my JCW and I cant get it to rotate which probably means I am just driving too slow. It does feel like I can do no wrong in the car though. On the clubman I dont have sport suspension so it rides much smoother. I think I may opt for a 19 with that set up.